Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #11 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. FMA the oriiginal MMA (GatPuno@aol.com) 2. RE: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (Abdon S. Borges Jr., M.D.) 3. Filipino Mix-Mix Arts..MMA (Halo-halo) (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. Re: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (Ray) 5. Re: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (jay de leon) 6. Re: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (Ruel Apostol) 7. Re: FMA the oriiginal MMA (realitycombat) 8. Re: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (The Sipins) 9. Re: Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:42:40 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA the oriiginal MMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/11/09 7:00:37 PM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Not to take any thing away from the FMA, I love the arts too. But you have > to go back to the Pankration days (before the death of Christ)to get the > original MMA. Old Pankration tournaments always ended in death. Not to mention > the battle field. > Just my 2 cents. > > Sifu/Guro > J Hosch > > Sorry Mr. Hosch, Cant go back that far, first I am a Filipino not Greek, second dont read and NO knowledge of the Pankration, why dont you enlighted us, instead of telling me to go back that far back? Add your two cent a $$, it may help for us to understand, this is FMA, not Pankration but comments are welcome and we are more than willing to listen and learn from your input. Your Original MMA is Pankration, and to me my original is FMA.. it's all up to the person, I have not learn other arts only Filipino Martial Arts, so as far as I know we practiced variety of weapons and practiced Kickboxing and Grappling. Add your two cent, if you may please.. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Abdon S. Borges Jr., M.D." To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No doubt that Tom Bisio was(is) exceptionally talented. However it takes a great instructor to make a gifted student reach his/her full potential. It was thanks to their COMBINED efforts (Tuhon Gaje's as the instructor, and Tom Bisio as the student) That Tom was able to go and BEAT the Filipinos in the tournament using PEKITI TIRSIA. Also, if I remember the story correctly, even the Filipino public was cheering Tom once they saw his flawless style and execution. So, in answer to your post Ray, I would humbly say that this is an excellent example of the COMBINATION of the art and the student. I have never met the man, but I have heard nothing but great things about Tom Bisio from anyone and everyone who has known him. As I understand, he trained extremely hard and diligently under Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje, hence his victory. So as Tuhon Gaje says, it's not the number of years training, but the number of hours one puts in daily. You can train once a week for ten years, or train every day, consistently for 3 years and have way more to show for it. Abdon -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:24 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube An excellent example, imho, that it isn't the art it is the person... Ray On Jan 10, 2009, at 8:03 PM, william mcgrath wrote: > Tom Bisio, who at that point had only three years training in Pekiti- > Tirsia. Leo entered Tom in the instructors devision (6 to 19 years > training) and Tom won! _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:04:32 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Filipino Mix-Mix Arts..MMA (Halo-halo) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/11/09 7:00:37 PM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > From: jay de leon > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > that story simply illustrates the universality of > the development of martial arts, including the > "grappling" arts.   by that time in human history > (1940's), many grappling arts had already been > formulated, probably by necessity, independent > of each other--pankration in greece, jiu-jitsu in > japan, chin-na in china, dumog and buno in the > philippines, lua in the hawaiian islands, etc. >   > i will tell you the real origin of the grappling arts. >   > there was this caveman named Og, who was > on his way home to the warmth of his cave, > dragging his girl friend by the hair with his left > hand and eating dinosaur BBQ with his right > hand.   suddenly he was ambushed by > Mongrel Dog With Sores (MDWS) from an > unfriendly neighboring tribe who was armed > with a club. >   > caught unarmed, Og had to improvise. > he dropped what he was holding, did a vine > or snake on the club, in the struggle > accidentally reaped MDWS's right foot,  > fell on MDWS, mounted him, and started > pounding on him with fists and elbow.  > needless to say, that maneuver saved the > day (and his gf and BBQ dinosaur) for Og. >   > my research shows that Og subsequently > started his martial arts system not long after > this incident, calling it "caveman rock and > roll."  >   > sorry, kaibigan Abon, but your FMA was only > second to Og's system, together with the > greeks, phoenicians, nubians, assyrians, > fijians and others. >   > jay de leon > www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com >   > Kapatid Jay, It's good, I have a good laugh at it. Well, cant really talk about who are the first one, we are talking back to (what came first the chicken or the egg?), I know what came first, you want to know? If you say please I will tell you, Okay I know everyone is already want to know what came first Chicken or the Egg ..........................................answer.......................Shxt first before he Chicken out, you got it Egg? Seriously, I do believed every nation have their own MMA, developed by forced, used to protect the mankind, now civilization developed and thge arts is forgotten by digital world. Browse it to find them....now it back, like the Chicken and Egg is cycle of life, history repeat itsellf.. Hope it helps.. This is the Filipino way... Jujitsuhan, Judohan, Karatehan, Taekwondohan, Aikidohan, Kickboxingan, Kung-fuhan, Samurayan, Espadahan, and more arts come we will absorb them Filipinized them and called what Filipiino would understand it better..MMA.. Our famous desert in the Philippines is also known "Halo-halo" or Mix and Mix, so natural to us Filipino to add easily to our palate.. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http ://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:00:36 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > That Tom was able to go and BEAT > the Filipinos in the tournament using PEKITI TIRSIA. P-T "Kali" is an art from the Philippines with practitioners in the Philippines, yes. No other P-T fighters were there? Angel's Serrada fighters went and BEAT the Filipinos in similar tournys also, as well as Doce Pares and many other artists. Fighters make the fight, imho... But yes I agree that training is important to better form the fighter. > Also, if I remember the story correctly, even the Filipino public > was cheering Tom once they saw his flawless style and execution. Oookkkk.... And why would they not cheer a truly excellent athletic performance? Ray --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Oookkkk....  And why would they not cheer a truly excellent athletic performance?"   Ray:   have you not heard of hometown crowds and hometown decisions?  shows you some filipinos have a sense of sportsmanship and fair play, and recognize talent when they see it.   or maybe it was just cebuanos cheering against a tagalog fighter (like a garimot fighter from laguna)?   it's a joke, please don't send me nasty emails. jay de leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Ray wrote: From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 7:00 PM > That Tom was able to go and BEAT > the Filipinos in the tournament using PEKITI TIRSIA. P-T "Kali" is an art from the Philippines with practitioners in the Philippines, yes. No other P-T fighters were there? Angel's Serrada fighters went and BEAT the Filipinos in similar tournys also, as well as Doce Pares and many other artists. Fighters make the fight, imho... But yes I agree that training is important to better form the fighter. > Also, if I remember the story correctly, even the Filipino public was cheering Tom once they saw his flawless style and execution. Oookkkk.... And why would they not cheer a truly excellent athletic performance? Ray _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 membersEskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:27:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ruel Apostol Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Great! I love to watch old fights! It would have been better if we know who the opponents were. Was this from the Grandmasters' Tournament held back then during the time of Gen. Ver? ________________________________ From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:03:48 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube I was cleaning the basement recently and found a real gem; a vhs video tape showing some of the fights in the first national Arnis tournament in the Philippines, held March 24th 1979. Grandmaster Gaje as able to bring only one fighter to the Philippines. Tom Bisio, who at that point had only three years training in Pekiti-Tirsia. Leo entered Tom in the instructors devision (6 to 19 years training) and Tom won! I now have the three matches on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg They are marked begining with Tom-Bisio-Fight1, then Fight2 and Fight3. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:45:38 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: realitycombat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA the oriiginal MMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was not trying to offend. You stated the origanal MMA was Filipino. I just gave some info for you to research. The art of Pankration as a documented form of fighting was around long before the Philippine Islands were known as the Philipines. I dont mean any disrespect. I train and teach Kali Silat, JeetKune Do. and I find Kali to be better than Pankration (for me). Especially if you add some Dog Brothers concepts and Balls in the mix. Sifu/Guro J Hosch -----Original Message----- >From: GatPuno@aol.com >Sent: Jan 11, 2009 6:42 PM >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] FMA the oriiginal MMA > >In a message dated 1/11/09 7:00:37 PM, >eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > >> Not to take any thing away from the FMA, I love the arts too. But you have >> to go back to the Pankration days (before the death of Christ)to get the >> original MMA. Old Pankration tournaments always ended in death. Not to mention >> the battle field. >> Just my 2 cents. >> >> Sifu/Guro >> J Hosch >> >> >Sorry Mr. Hosch, > >Cant go back that far, first I am a Filipino not Greek, second dont read and >NO knowledge of the Pankration, why dont you enlighted us, instead of telling >me to go back that far back? Add your two cent a $$, it may help for us to >understand, this is FMA, not Pankration but comments are welcome and we are more >than willing to listen and learn from your input. > >Your Original MMA is Pankration, and to me my original is FMA.. it's all up >to the person, I have not learn other arts only Filipino Martial Arts, so as >far as I know we practiced variety of weapons and practiced Kickboxing and >Grappling. > >Add your two cent, if you may please.. > >Salamat, > > >Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet >Garimot Arnis Training Group International >Laguna Arnis Federation International >US Harimaw Buno Federation >Hilot Research Center USA >Tel. 954-432-4433 >www.garimot.com > > > > >************** >A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy >steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De >cemailfooterNO62) >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "The Sipins" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:28:16 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This was during that time. The last fight was against "Loloy" (Benifacio) Uy Tom Sipin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruel Apostol" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube > Great! I love to watch old fights! It would have been better if we know > who the opponents were. Was this from the Grandmasters' Tournament held > back then during the time of Gen. Ver? > > > > > ________________________________ > From: william mcgrath > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:03:48 PM > Subject: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube > > I was cleaning the basement recently and found a real gem; a vhs video > tape showing some of the fights in the first national Arnis tournament in > the Philippines, held March 24th 1979. > Grandmaster Gaje as able to bring only one fighter to the Philippines. Tom > Bisio, who at that point had only three years training in Pekiti-Tirsia. > Leo entered Tom in the instructors devision (6 to 19 years training) and > Tom won! > I now have the three matches on my YouTube channel: > http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg > > They are marked begining with Tom-Bisio-Fight1, then Fight2 and Fight3. > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath > www.TheSwordofFire.com > > www.pekiti.com > > http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cebu 1979 Tournament on YouTube Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:06:42 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net 1979 was the Grandmaster's tourny that was won by Cacoy Canete. Yes, when Gen. Ver was large and in-charge. Ray On Jan 12, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Ruel Apostol wrote: > Great! I love to watch old fights! It would have been better if we > know who the opponents were. Was this from the Grandmasters' > Tournament held back then during the time of Gen. Ver? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest