Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:32:14 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #13 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: Kaveman Kali etc (Felipe Jocano) 2. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (Tyler Murphy) 3. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (jay de leon) 5. 5000 year old martial arts (Ray) 6. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (realitycombat) 7. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali (jay de leon) 8. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali (james jr. sy) 9. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (B Light) 10. Re: Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (Tyler Murphy) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: Kaveman Kali etc To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Manong Jay; As for Kaveman Kali, that goes back to one of my arnis batchmates, Manolo Del Rosario :-) it grew out of one of our post-training sessions and became one of our in-jokes for a while...so if he's reading this post, he ought to trademark it :-) I did recall reading something about the x-prison rock n' roll type of fighting, which in the Philippines is something like Bilibid i-style (Tagalog pronunciation) :-) so I guess there's some resonance there. Bot --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:42:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Murphy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Not the way I understand it. Enlighten me. Maybe you have some links or something else to back up that statement about Africa? --- On Tue, 1/13/09, B Light wrote: > From: B Light > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:18 AM > The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and > these influenced > people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni Hasan > graphically > illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. Ancient > Africans also > developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much > documentation of this > also. I wouldn't be surprised that the first MMA were > created there too, > although information about that is harder to find. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:46:50 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Manong Jay: Recent research seems to confirm this story. A set of hitherto undiscovered cave paintings was shown to actually record the life and times of Og. In addition, a fair amount of his wisdom was recorded in them. Rendered phonetically, it runs as follows: Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. The closest rendering is: Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. :-P Bot >   > i will tell you the real origin of the grappling arts. >   > there was this caveman named Og, who was > on his way home to the warmth of his cave, > dragging his girl friend by the hair with his left > hand and eating dinosaur BBQ with his right > hand.   suddenly he was ambushed by > Mongrel Dog With Sores (MDWS) from an > unfriendly neighboring tribe who was armed > with a club. >   > caught unarmed, Og had to improvise. > he dropped what he was holding, did a vine > or snake on the club, in the struggle > accidentally reaped MDWS's right foot,  > fell on MDWS, mounted him, and started > pounding on him with fists and elbow.  > needless to say, that maneuver saved the > day (and his gf and BBQ dinosaur) for Og. >   > my research shows that Og subsequently > started his martial arts system not long after > this incident, calling it "caveman rock and > roll."  >   --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net try this link.   http://www.africawithin.com/black_history/overview_chapter1.htm   jay de leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Tyler Murphy wrote: From: Tyler Murphy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 6:42 PM Not the way I understand it. Enlighten me. Maybe you have some links or something else to back up that statement about Africa? --- On Tue, 1/13/09, B Light wrote: > From: B Light > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:18 AM > The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and > these influenced > people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni Hasan > graphically > illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. Ancient > Africans also > developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much > documentation of this > also. I wouldn't be surprised that the first MMA were > created there too, > although information about that is harder to find. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:28:03 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] 5000 year old martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Koreans make similar claims and point to very ancient cave art and documentation showing their martial arts are a few thousand years old. But those claims, too, are questionable. Bottom line, we don't know and probably never will. Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net On Jan 13, 2009, at 9:18 AM, B Light wrote: > The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and these > influenced > people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni Hasan graphically > illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. Ancient Africans > also > developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much documentation > of this > also. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:00:20 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: realitycombat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is nothing that proves the first recorded martial art came from Africa. Too far from the truth. -----Original Message----- >From: Tyler Murphy >Sent: Jan 13, 2009 8:42 PM >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > >Not the way I understand it. Enlighten me. Maybe you have some links or something else to back up that statement about Africa? > > >--- On Tue, 1/13/09, B Light wrote: > >> From: B Light >> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum >> To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:18 AM >> The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and >> these influenced >> people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni Hasan >> graphically >> illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. Ancient >> Africans also >> developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much >> documentation of this >> also. I wouldn't be surprised that the first MMA were >> created there too, >> although information about that is harder to find. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:45:42 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net bot:   thanks for backing up my story, and for cleaning up Og's language.  the original was a little bit saltier than that.   jay --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Felipe Jocano wrote: From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 6:46 PM Hi Manong Jay: Recent research seems to confirm this story. A set of hitherto undiscovered cave paintings was shown to actually record the life and times of Og. In addition, a fair amount of his wisdom was recorded in them. Rendered phonetically, it runs as follows: Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. The closest rendering is: Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. :-P Bot >   > i will tell you the real origin of the grappling arts. >   > there was this caveman named Og, who was > on his way home to the warmth of his cave, > dragging his girl friend by the hair with his left > hand and eating dinosaur BBQ with his right > hand.   suddenly he was ambushed by > Mongrel Dog With Sores (MDWS) from an > unfriendly neighboring tribe who was armed > with a club. >   > caught unarmed, Og had to improvise. > he dropped what he was holding, did a vine > or snake on the club, in the struggle > accidentally reaped MDWS's right foot,  > fell on MDWS, mounted him, and started > pounding on him with fists and elbow.  > needless to say, that maneuver saved the > day (and his gf and BBQ dinosaur) for Og. >   > my research shows that Og subsequently > started his martial arts system not long after > this incident, calling it "caveman rock and > roll."  >   _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:28:13 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Prof. Bot,   I think you mistranscribed it. It's really Pok!  Pok!  Pok!  Pok!  It's actually the art of giving blows.  It's name Pokpokan!  c" --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Felipe Jocano wrote: From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum: More Kaveman Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 10:46 AM Hi Manong Jay: Recent research seems to confirm this story. A set of hitherto undiscovered cave paintings was shown to actually record the life and times of Og. In addition, a fair amount of his wisdom was recorded in them. Rendered phonetically, it runs as follows: Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. Ook ook. The closest rendering is: Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. Hit 'em. :-P Bot >   > i will tell you the real origin of the grappling arts. >   > there was this caveman named Og, who was > on his way home to the warmth of his cave, > dragging his girl friend by the hair with his left > hand and eating dinosaur BBQ with his right > hand.   suddenly he was ambushed by > Mongrel Dog With Sores (MDWS) from an > unfriendly neighboring tribe who was armed > with a club. >   > caught unarmed, Og had to improvise. > he dropped what he was holding, did a vine > or snake on the club, in the struggle > accidentally reaped MDWS's right foot,  > fell on MDWS, mounted him, and started > pounding on him with fists and elbow.  > needless to say, that maneuver saved the > day (and his gf and BBQ dinosaur) for Og. >   > my research shows that Og subsequently > started his martial arts system not long after > this incident, calling it "caveman rock and > roll."  >   _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: B Light Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here are some links to sites with information. There are many sources of information available on ancient African martial arts, though it usually takes some digging to find them because of the efforts of colonialists to erase this history. The painting at Beni Hasan, Egypt are the most well known proof of the ancient origins of jujitsu and other grappling arts, although stickfighting and striking arts were portrayed also. http://wysinger.homestead.com/nubiansport.html http://forwardmotion.home.att.net/nuba.html http://www.themmazone.net/Martial-Arts-WP/2008/12/01/african-martial-arts/ http://www.ukmtpress.com/universityofkmtpress/id343.html --- On Tue, 1/13/09, realitycombat wrote: From: realitycombat Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 8:00 PM There is nothing that proves the first recorded martial art came from Africa. Too far from the truth. -----Original Message----- >From: Tyler Murphy >Sent: Jan 13, 2009 8:42 PM >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > >Not the way I understand it. Enlighten me. Maybe you have some links or something else to back up that statement about Africa? > > >--- On Tue, 1/13/09, B Light wrote: > >> From: B Light >> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum >> To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:18 AM >> The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and >> these influenced >> people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni Hasan >> graphically >> illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. Ancient >> Africans also >> developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much >> documentation of this >> also. I wouldn't be surprised that the first MMA were >> created there too, >> although information about that is harder to find. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:04:41 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Murphy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the link Guru Jay. I still say however that it's possible people came about from somewhere else other than Africa. As humans we have gone through many understandings of our origins and I am sure soon that there will be a new theory to where people came from. The reason i asked for a link was because he said "The first recorded martial arts were in ancient Africa, and these influenced people around the world" How can such an absolute statement be made about anything in the world, let alone Martial Arts and the origin of man? That's why I wanted something other than that statement, a link to something other than Black history at college that says humans evolved there. That does not answer my question as to why must MA come from there? This irritates me because it's just another way for someone to prove the lineage of the art is better than someone else. Tyler --- On Tue, 1/13/09, jay de leon wrote: > From: jay de leon > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:21 PM > try this link. >   > http://www.africawithin.com/black_history/overview_chapter1.htm >   > jay de leon > www.filipinofightingartsintl.com > > > --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Tyler Murphy > wrote: > > From: Tyler Murphy > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA > curriculum > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 6:42 PM > > Not the way I understand it. Enlighten me. Maybe you have > some links or > something else to back up that statement about Africa? > > > --- On Tue, 1/13/09, B Light > wrote: > > > From: B Light > > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA > curriculum > > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:18 AM > > The first recorded martial arts were in ancient > Africa, and > > these influenced > > people around the world. The wall paintings at Beni > Hasan > > graphically > > illustrate this point, showing ancient grappling. > Ancient > > Africans also > > developed stick fighting and boxing, and there is much > > documentation of this > > also. I wouldn't be surprised that the first MMA > were > > created there too, > > although information about that is harder to find. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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