Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:48:58 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #16 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Villasin Balintwak in East Bay (of Greater SF Bay Area) (Alex France) 2. Re: Earliest martial art (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: Roots of Martial Arts in Africa (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum (jay de leon) 5. Re: Earliest martial art (Michael Gallagher) 6. Earliest Martial Arts (Kendal Coats) 7. Re: Earliest martial art (Jon Broster) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:59:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alex France To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Villasin Balintwak in East Bay (of Greater SF Bay Area) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Grandmaster Veraqui "Ver" Villasin will be at my school (1024 B Street, Hayward CA 94541) this Sunday and next from 1 PM to 3 PM to meet prospective students interested in learning Villasin Balintawak. If you are interested, please drop by and say hello, or call (1-925-519-2769) or email me at AlexFranceSr@gmail.com,   Grandmaster Warlito "Lito" Concepcion's 100 Hour Kombatan course started last Saturday. It's not too late to sign up for that. You can make up the first day by personal arrangement with either Lito or me.   Alex(ander Bautista Bayot France) Philippine Martial Arts Academy (the FMA Division of Hayward Martial Arts) Website:  www.HaywardMartialArts.net   --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:44:57 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Earliest martial art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Spanking is an FMA technique?????......Okaaaaaaaaayyyyy :-) ray > i'm going to spank > you if you let non ma mails onto the list........you > naughty boy. I'm going to have to revise my curriculum now ;-P Bot --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:57:04 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Roots of Martial Arts in Africa To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve, With all due respect I have to kind of agree and disagree with your last statement, quoted below. Questions > of "lineage" and > "which art is better" are as irrelevant today as > they were in 10,000 > BC.Best,Steve Lamadewww.northshoreac.com I would agree that they are irrelevant today if the focus is on getting better at what you do as an FMAer. How to get there depends pretty much on what you're after in the FMA - cultural preservation, self-defense, tournament fighting, whatever. Skills training definitely should be the priority - as in other martial arts. However, and this is where I kind of disagree now, questions of lineage and which art is better are still relevant - in issues of authenticity. Now that's a thornier topic, since it can easily break down into whose art is real, authentic, handed down from generations past or just plain made up. Authenticity becomes relevant when seeking out a teacher who really knows his/her stuff and can make it work in whatever situation, as necessary (some specialize and some are just good at a lot of things, take your pick). Authenticity and lineage go together in the minds of many people, particularly when checking out claims of people to this or that knowledge. It assumes a greater relevance when, in this modern world we live in, we pay for instruction (so checking out authenticity is helpful in protecting your wallet) and when challenging a teacher to check out his/her claims is no longer allowed in most jurisdictions (lawsuits cost a lot, people know that, and many claims can go unchecked if there is no giverning body. Caveat emptor and all that.). Anyway, a few pesos worth from the Philippines :-) Bot --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:48:29 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net to bolster your points, bruce tegner used the term "American Combat Judo" and has a particular book with that title.  if i remember right, and i am just going by (fast fading) memory now, he included a lot of military combat techniques like nullifying a sentry with a rope, etc.   again, fwiw, bruce tegner was a kodokan judo and jiu-jitsu practitioner.  his parents were both professional judo and jiu-jitsu instructors.   jay de leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com   --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Bill Debuque wrote: From: Bill Debuque Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Combat Judo as part of FMA curriculum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 11:09 PM There is also a possibility that "Combat Judo" is of American origin, courtesy of the operatives of the US Army/OSS inserted into the Philippines during the Japanese occupation via submarine to train Filipino guerillas.  The June 30, 1942 FM 21-150 (Unarmed Defense for the American Soldier) acknowledges its primary source as the MA system developed by the American Judo Club.     It might also be safe to assume that even before this American system of unarmed combat was formalized into an Army-wide FM, the techniques have already been taught side-by-side with the FMA techniques incorporated into the curriculum of pre-WWII special US Army units such as the Philippine Scouts. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:42:42 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Earliest martial art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 01:36 PM 1/15/2009, you wrote: > ..... The more you study evolution the more >you realize that it is a lie .... Nope. It ain't. In the tradition of my Kali instructors who encouraged being open-minded about Martial Arts, I'll throw in the most open-minded comment on the debate from an anthropology professor I had at the University of Maine. She said that factually, the key difference between evolution and creationism comes down to one thing: Time. Evolution takes FOREVER, since it is all about what traits are passed from generation to generation (not apes morphing into people before your eyes). It takes about 40,000 years for a completely new species to evolve, and there's no way it can happen if the Earth was created 5,000 years ago. However, if it has been around for 4.5 billion, then yes, there is plenty of time. Just a little factoid to keep in mind. Michael J. Gallagher mikejoe7g@yahoo.com Cortland, NY USA "I am not A big fat panda. I am THE big fat Panda." -- Po, KUNG FU PANDA --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:09:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kendal Coats To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Earliest Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Julian, you make a good point, but there is a difference between combat/conflict and martial arts. Animals fight, but it took human understanding to adapt, systematize and teach similar movements and styles. One could say that physics have existed since the beginning of the universe, but the science of physics did not arise without some human understanding. The ancients understood the principals of physics, and used physics even without a mathematical basis. But as humans evolved, so did the science. Martial Arts is no different. And since I said the magic word, evolution, who brought up Dr. Kent Hovend? Sorry, just because someone has a PhD doesn't make them smart or a source. The guy is presently serving 10 years for tax evasion. Now you have to mess up pretty good to get 10 years. But you also have to be pretty messed up to believe that the earth is only 6000 years old. There are American Indian cultures that have been around for over 6000 years, and that's not even looking to Asia, India or Africa, who have cultures with written records over 6000 years old. No one, and I mean no one, with any credibility has written that man evolved from monkeys. Personally I believe in creation and evolution, I do not see them as mutually exclusive of each other. But, my calender with 365 days (defined as one rotation of the earth around the sun) 12 months (based on lunar cycles) or 24 hours (one rotation of the earth), has no relation of the calender my creator uses. After all according to Genesis, it was day three before God created the sun and the moon. What kept time the first two days. All vertebrate life, starts with a two single cells that join to form a new single cell. There is evolution, we all evolve over 9 months from that single cell unto a human. As we grow we diverge from our cousins. We all start out the same, birds, fish, dogs, cats, monkeys, and humans. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:57:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Jon Broster To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Earliest martial art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi,   Julian's original post was put in politest, least offensive terms. It is perhaps worth mentioning that Dr. Kent Hovend is currently in jail for various taxation offences! It appears that he purchased both his Masters Degree and Doctorate from a degree mill - ie a place that sells worthless degree certificates.   That aside, creationism, just as evolution, is a THEORY. There is scant empirical proof for either.   Jon martial art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Evelution is not a fact it is a theory. The more you study evolution the more you realize that it is a lie. I did not come from an ape and neither did you. I was created by God ans so are my ancestors. Science itself disproves evelution. If you want proof, check out anything by Dr. Kent Hovend. Guro/Sifu J Hosch --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest