Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:13:00 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #138 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. 72 year old boxer jacks up knife attacker (Marc Denny) 2. Testing your Art, the DB approach; seminars (Marc Denny) 3. no "best" art? cant test the art? (maurice gatdula) 4. Re: no "best" art? cant test the art? (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:25:39 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] 72 year old boxer jacks up knife attacker Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196479/Pictured-The-battered-bruised-face-burglar-got-wrong-72-year-old-boxer.html Pictured: The battered and bruised face of a burglar who got on the wrong side of a 72-year-old former boxer By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 10:40 PM on 30th June 2009 a.. A knife-wielding burglar had a shock when he attacked a pensioner in his home - and discovered his victim was a retired boxer. Senior citizen Frank Corti, 72, a former junior boxing champion is still a bit handy with his dukes. And when he spotted the aforementioned intruder, Gregory McCalium, in his hallway he sprang into action and delivered two right hooks. Enlarge Battered and caught out: Gregory McCalium before his encounter with Frank Corti and after, looking ever-so-slightly the worse-for-wear Reluctant hero: Frank Corti, pictured here with his boxing trophies, is pleased with the sentence and has insisted that 'most people would have acted the same way' The blows were so powerful that McCalium, who had just lunged at Mr Corti with the knife, was left looking like he had been in 'a car accident'. The pensioner then restrained him until police arrived. He was jailed for four and a half years yesterday after a judge told him he had 'got what he deserved'. Glory days: Mr Corti pictured outside the Baliol Boys Club at the age of 16 After sentencing, Mr Corti said: 'I was scared when he first drew the knife but most people would have acted in the same way. If you can't defend what's yours, where are we at?' Oxford Crown Court heard the break-in was the culmination of a long-running dispute over noise between the neighbours, who live in Botley, Oxford. McCalium, a barman, was having a rowdy party at his house on August 18 last year when police turned up after a complaint from a neighbour. McCalium assumed it had been made by Mr Corti - who won the National Association of Boys' Clubs Championship in Birmingham when he was 16 - and broke into his neighbour's home at 8am the following day. Mr Corti, who was with his wife Margaret at the time, dodged out of the way of his attacker's lunge and punched him, giving him a black eye and a split lip, before subduing him. McCalium was found guilty of aggravated burglary at a trial in March, during which he had claimed he could not remember the incident. John Simmons, defending, said Mr Corti, who served with the Royal Engineers in North Africa from 1956-58, had received minor injuries during the confrontation. He added: ' Photographs of the defendant showed what looked like a car accident and photos of the scene looked more like a murder scene.' Recorder Angela Morris said: 'Luckily, Mr Corti was an able-bodied 72-year-old who was able to defend himself. 'The jury might well have concluded you got what you deserved when you entered that property and took a swipe at him with that weapon. 'The elderly and vulnerable people are entitled to demand the protection of courts from people like you who decide to take matters into your own hands and enter a property with a weapon.' Mr Corti, a retired car worker, added: 'If needed to, I would do it again.' During sentencing at Oxford Crown Court, Brian Payne, prosecuting, said: 'There was a struggle and it was clear Mr McCalium was intoxicated because his reactions were slow. 'It seems Mr McCalium ended up with far more serious injuries.' Jailed: McCalium pictured partying on his Facebook page After the sentencing, Detective Constable Jon Shaw said: 'Fortunately no-one was more injured in this incident but this was still a terrifying situation and McCalium must now pay for his actions. I hope that the victim, and his wife, might now be able to put this ordeal behind them and get on with their lives.' During the trial, Mr Corti described how he had been woken during the night by noise from next door for several months before the incident. Enlarge Gregory McCalium had become involved in a long-running dispute with Mr Corti about noise He told the court: 'They would slam the doors, then they would start partying. You could hear shouting, screaming and music.' Mr Corti said he called police when he found McCalium banging on the front door of his house at about 6.30am. Two hours later, he said, he came downstairs and saw bar worker McCalium in his hallway. Mr Corti said: 'The accused produced a knife. It was no ordinary knife, it was more like a six-bladed knuckle duster. He made a slashing movement at me. I stepped back. He missed me, fortunately.' Mr Corti said that while McCalium was off balance, he grabbed both of his wrists and managed to pin his arms against the wall. He added he asked McCalium to drop the knife but he wouldn't. Mr Corti said: 'I shouted to my wife to ring the police. I was absolutely petrified. As I saw it, it was a matter of do or die so I let his wrists go. Fortunately the element of surprise was with me, so I adjusted my position and hit him with my right hand. It was just below the eye. I did not knock him out, but he was stunned. I heard the knife drop. We grappled. I was trying to drag him out of the back door. We both fell to the floor. I had to subdue him by punching him, which I did not take a great deal of pleasure in." The jury heard he then lay on top of McCalium until the police arrived. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058AB9F3000005DC-142_224x341.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058B0A5D000005DC-339_224x341.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058B77E9000005DC-93_468x474.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058B7AA4000005DC-266_233x732.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058ABA72000005DC-350_468x604.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of article-1196479-058ABC8A000005DC-249_233x364.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:58:23 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Testing your Art, the DB approach; seminars Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Sorry if I come a bit late to this subject, but for those so inclined to test themselves and their personal expression, the next Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack will be on September 20th. http://www.dogbrothers.com/pages/gathering.html Please send in your registration form in advance! For additional conversation please see http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1794.0 To get a better sense of what might be entailed, please go to http://www.dogbrothers.com/pages/multimedia.html and click on the relevant clips "Higher Consciousness through Harder Contact" (c) Crafty Dog PS: My seminar in the Fort Hood TX area on August 1-2 apparently is filling up quickly, as is the joint seminar with Sled Dog, Top Dog and me in Toronto Aug 21-23. See http://www.dogbrothers.com/pages/seminars.html for contact info and see the relevant threads on our forum at http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?board=1.0 for additional info. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:40:13 -0700 (PDT) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] no "best" art? cant test the art? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net since when? someone said there is no best art, and no bad ones. but of course there are best arts. what about shopping center tae kwon do vs kukkiwon tae kwon do? or arnis in the province, vs arnis at "karate for kids". its up to the knowledge base of the teacher and the amount and value of the techniques being taught. so your a tough son of a gun at a mickey mouse karate school, but a regular guy at a world class school with a strong, developed style will have more, better tools and strategies to beat the big guy from TKD r Us. trust me, there is nobody here that really believes that his art is not superior, i hope, at least. if you are teaching or trying to master arts, no one is foolish enough to study arts he things are not very good. this is why people cross train, to make his art better isn't it? if not, why dont you just stick to your original style and "train harder"? dont believe every clever saying you hear, my brothers. things like "its not the style its the fighter" makes a little sense, because sometimes, its true. but a teacher can add good observation and techniques to a system that only has strikes kicks, and weak strategy and make it better. if the teaching is weak, and the power mechanics is weak, this student can work his butt off, but he is still training poor technique and poor style. the bottom line is, some styles are not created the same. some founders knew what they are doing, some did not. some earn respect because of their skill, some earn it because they stayed alive long enough to get old. and not every old master has good martial arts. just like not every muscular man is going to be a good fighter. styles get better when the masters want to make them better. then they have to test them to see if they are right, or if it needs more practice. testing arts is like making good soup, you keep cooking and adding and tasting, and sooner or later you have good soup (unless you are married to my ex wife). some styles are throwed together, some came with a lot of changing, practice and sparring. but you have to have the right things if an art is going to improve through YOUR generation. a style has to have specialties. and what is a specialty but a group of technique and skill that the founder *knows* will beat most opponents (he has to know when it should be used, and what the weakness is), along with some techniques that are just as good or not, but other students can use them to defend themself. he done them thousands of times, and he is good at something that most people are not. if there is nothing a master cant do better than most people, he is no master, he is just some old guy been doing average martial arts for a long time. they cant all be "champions of the philippines" or suvivor of the death match. these are the same things as "i been in 500 streetfights and one them all" of today. tough talk and fancy demos dont make systems, only serious study, and years of practice and testing does. the style has to have strategy that the student can learn and use against opponents. like, how to beat a stronger man, what about the different kinds of fighters (brawlers, boxers, smotherers, etc.), or how to use the trap as attack, how to take a stick while he is really trying to hit you. many styles do not have strategy, only what if he does this or, what if he does that. prearranged technique does not prepare students for fighting in realistic timing. this is why i dont like most disarming, its not true disarming just fight choreography. now make sure you stab me right, lol. the philosophy of a good style must be more than just "love your country/use only for self defense/kill or be killed" bs. it has to give the student guidance for his training and his thinking as a warrior. without good philosophy, and art is only a skill, like basketball or shooting. the system, has to have a way to teach even a beginner how to grow himself as a martial artist, even if he quits your place in a year. and then finally, testing. there are four kinds of testing in the martial arts: 1. the new teacher has to develop his style, and try it out against many opponents. they can be friends or enemies, in different gyms or in the tournament. take your pick, but it has to be done. maybe you want to go from dojo to dojo to challenge people (yeah right), but you cannot skiip this kind of testing. the question is, do you do this to prove it to yourself? or prove it to the community? the answer is, both. as a man, you have to prove it to yourself that you can really fight, so when you talk to others (students, teachers, or other fighters), you can look them in the eye, and talk the talk like a man. as a teacher, you prove it to the community so your school will have respect, and more than that, so that your students will have respect one day when they decide they want to teach. 2. the new student has to test and spar as soon as he learns his basic skills. soon as possible. if he quits in 6 months, at least you can know that this guy will be able to defend himself and take care of business. if do not have this confidence as a teacher, you are failing your students. even a beginner should be able to knock a guy down in the street. but he will never feel confident enough to use it, if he never did it before. as his teacher, you have the responsibility to make sure he gets experience as soon as he learns his basics. he won't be able to learn intermediate techniques, if he is afraid of what he has not done. 3. you put your advance people to the fire as much as you can, and finally before you qualify them as a teacher or expert. it is better to have them test/spar on people who they do not know. hopefully with people that will not treat them like brothers, only opponents. espcially when you are giving a black belter exam. when you hold up your boys as teachers, you are saying to the world, that this is best group of fighters i can put out, and i will put my money on them, anytime, any place. if you cant make this kind of guarantee, you shouldnt put anymore experts out there, we have too many "iffy" people out here teaching. i have this confidence even in my advance students, and its because they have been to this show many times. how many teachers out there can say they never put a hurting on somebody, or ever been beatin in a match? too many, thats how. as a teacher it is your duty to have only fighters/teachers, that you have better confidence than even in your own skills. and it is not fair to them if you dont let them have that experience. 4. your new teachers go out and test their skills on people, so they can have their own experience and make new ideas and techniques. so, this is a circle, and this is how arts grow and get better. each generation, the style should get better, more effective, more damaging, better efficiency. if not, it will weaken. believe me, theres a lot of people who break the circle, and they and there students are left holding inferior martial arts. this is why we have some styles that are good, and some that are not as good. some that are great, and some that are just sucks. Visit my websites! www.typhoonma.comwww.filipinofightingsecretslive.com Mabuhay! --- On Mon, 6/29/09, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #134 - 3 msgs To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 5:48 PM Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to     eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at     eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<----   The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list   ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics:    1. San Miguel Eskrima workshop in Greenlawn, N.Y. September 19 (Stephen Lamade)    2. Re: Testing Your Art (Al Sardinas)    3. Re: Re: Testing Your Art (Mr KRS) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:38:54 -0700 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] no "best" art? cant test the art? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It depends on what the person is looking for. For some people shopping center TKD is *exactly* what they want and need. "Good/better/best" is totally subjective. That's why there can't be one answer for everyone. Some people want and need the stuff you or I wouldn't touch ... but it's the "best" for that person. Ultimately it comes down to the overall dynamic between the student, instructor and material. Let's say, for example, that the best system for you is ... FMA (I know, it's a stretch :-D I'm guessing you had a good instructor. You probably got along with him good and he was skillful and a good instructor. You were a dedicated student and the material he taught you suited you. What if you had had a crappy instructor in the same system? Your system (a family system, right?) may not have any crappy instructors but some systems definitely do. Or what if you simply hadn't gotten along with your instructor? Or your instructor just wasn't very good at teaching? Or some combination of these? Chances are you wouldn't have trained for very long but even if you stuck it out you probably wouldn't have been as good as you are - even though the system you trained would have been the same. Make sense? Mike maurice gatdula wrote: > since when? > > someone said there is no best art, and no bad ones. but of course there are > best arts. what about shopping center tae kwon do vs kukkiwon tae kwon do? or > arnis in the province, vs arnis at "karate for kids". its up to the knowledge > base of the teacher and the amount and value of the techniques being taught. > so your a tough son of a gun at a mickey mouse karate school, but a regular > guy at a world class school with a strong, developed style will have more, > better tools and strategies to beat the big guy from TKD r Us. trust me, there > is nobody here that really believes that his art is not superior, i hope, at > least. if you are teaching or trying to master arts, no one is foolish enough > to study arts he things are not very good. this is why people cross train, to > make his art better isn't it? if not, why dont you just stick to your original > style and "train harder"? dont believe every clever saying you hear, my > brothers. > > things like "its not the style its the fighter" makes a little sense, because > sometimes, its true. but a teacher can add good observation and techniques to > a system that only has strikes kicks, and weak strategy and make it better. if > the teaching is weak, and the power mechanics is weak, this student can work > his butt off, but he is still training poor technique and poor style. the > bottom line is, some styles are not created the same. some founders knew what > they are doing, some did not. some earn respect because of their skill, some > earn it because they stayed alive long enough to get old. and not every old > master has good martial arts. just like not every muscular man is going to be > a good fighter. > > styles get better when the masters want to make them better. then they have to > test them to see if they are right, or if it needs more practice. testing arts > is like making good soup, you keep cooking and adding and tasting, and sooner > or later you have good soup (unless you are married to my ex wife). some > styles are throwed together, some came with a lot of changing, practice and > sparring. but you have to have the right things if an art is going to improve > through YOUR generation. > > a style has to have specialties. and what is a specialty but a group of > technique and skill that the founder *knows* will beat most opponents (he has > to know when it should be used, and what the weakness is), along with some > techniques that are just as good or not, but other students can use them to > defend themself. he done them thousands of times, and he is good at something > that most people are not. if there is nothing a master cant do better than > most people, he is no master, he is just some old guy been doing average > martial arts for a long time. they cant all be "champions of the philippines" > or suvivor of the death match. these are the same things as "i been in 500 > streetfights and one them all" of today. tough talk and fancy demos dont make > systems, only serious study, and years of practice and testing does. > > the style has to have strategy that the student can learn and use against > opponents. like, how to beat a stronger man, what about the different kinds of > fighters (brawlers, boxers, smotherers, etc.), or how to use the trap as > attack, how to take a stick while he is really trying to hit you. many styles > do not have strategy, only what if he does this or, what if he does that. > prearranged technique does not prepare students for fighting in realistic > timing. this is why i dont like most disarming, its not true disarming just > fight choreography. now make sure you stab me right, lol. > > the philosophy of a good style must be more than just "love your country/use > only for self defense/kill or be killed" bs. it has to give the student > guidance for his training and his thinking as a warrior. without good > philosophy, and art is only a skill, like basketball or shooting. the system, > has to have a way to teach even a beginner how to grow himself as a martial > artist, even if he quits your place in a year. > > and then finally, testing. there are four kinds of testing in the martial > arts: > 1. the new teacher has to develop his style, and try it out against many > opponents. they can be friends or enemies, in different gyms or in the > tournament. take your pick, but it has to be done. maybe you want to go from > dojo to dojo to challenge people (yeah right), but you cannot skiip this kind > of testing. the question is, do you do this to prove it to yourself? or prove > it to the community? the answer is, both. as a man, you have to prove it to > yourself that you can really fight, so when you talk to others (students, > teachers, or other fighters), you can look them in the eye, and talk the talk > like a man. as a teacher, you prove it to the community so your school will > have respect, and more than that, so that your students will have respect one > day when they decide they want to teach. > > 2. the new student has to test and spar as soon as he learns his basic skills. > soon as possible. if he quits in 6 months, at least you can know that this guy > will be able to defend himself and take care of business. if do not have this > confidence as a teacher, you are failing your students. even a beginner should > be able to knock a guy down in the street. but he will never feel confident > enough to use it, if he never did it before. as his teacher, you have the > responsibility to make sure he gets experience as soon as he learns his > basics. he won't be able to learn intermediate techniques, if he is afraid of > what he has not done. > > 3. you put your advance people to the fire as much as you can, and finally > before you qualify them as a teacher or expert. it is better to have them > test/spar on people who they do not know. hopefully with people that will not > treat them like brothers, only opponents. espcially when you are giving a > black belter exam. when you hold up your boys as teachers, you are saying to > the world, that this is best group of fighters i can put out, and i will put > my money on them, anytime, any place. if you cant make this kind of guarantee, > you shouldnt put anymore experts out there, we have too many "iffy" people out > here teaching. i have this confidence even in my advance students, and its > because they have been to this show many times. how many teachers out there > can say they never put a hurting on somebody, or ever been beatin in a match? > too many, thats how. as a teacher it is your duty to have only > fighters/teachers, that you have better confidence than even in > your own skills. and it is not fair to them if you dont let them have that > experience. > > 4. your new teachers go out and test their skills on people, so they can have > their own experience and make new ideas and techniques. > > so, this is a circle, and this is how arts grow and get better. each > generation, the style should get better, more effective, more damaging, better > efficiency. if not, it will weaken. believe me, theres a lot of people who > break the circle, and they and there students are left holding inferior > martial arts. this is why we have some styles that are good, and some that are > not as good. some that are great, and some that are just sucks. > > > > > Visit my websites! > > www.typhoonma.comwww.filipinofightingsecretslive.com > Mabuhay! > > > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net > wrote: > > From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net > > Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #134 - 3 msgs > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 5:48 PM > > Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to > eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." > > > <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> > > Serving the Internet since June 1994. > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. > 2700 members. > Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). > > See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine > for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com > > Mabuhay ang eskrima! > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. San Miguel Eskrima workshop in Greenlawn, N.Y. September 19 (Stephen > Lamade) > 2. Re: Testing Your Art (Al Sardinas) > 3. Re: Re: Testing Your Art (Mr KRS) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest