Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:48:22 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #144 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: federico and Mike C. (Eldrige Holloway) 2. Re: McDojos (Kim Satterfield) 3. Re: Back to FMA (Mike Casto) 4. instruction (Gordon Walker) 5. Re: Eskrima digest, Instructors, McDojps and such (Tim Kashino) 6. Re: instruction (Mike Casto) 7. Re: Always a student (Michael Gallagher) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Eldrige Holloway Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: federico and Mike C. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone,   This is my first time posting even though I have been reading your posts for about a year now. Someone made the comment that having a black belt means you should be able to kick but and take names, however that does not make one a black belt.   First once a person reaches that rank it basically means that the person is trainable.  Just like if a person is awarded a college degree , it only means that they are trainable.  The next thing is the training of the mind.  Being able to discern when and when not to use the skills you have obtained. I myself have been involve in the martial arts for over 30 years and there still is so much to learn.   I have experience in a few different styles, Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do and now for the last 3 years Kali Escrima. What I do know is that you have to take on the white belt mentality to be able to learn and perfect the new techniques of the new style in order to be effective.   I say all this only to share that you don't have to be the badest guy in the valley to command the most respect. Self discipline and self control is what separates the real men from the boys who call themselves black belts.   Best regards to all,   Eldrige Holloway "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."   Sir Winston Churchill (1879-1965)   --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:54:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kim Satterfield To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: McDojos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, There has been a lot of discussion here about the number of McDojos cropping up these days, and so I offer here our solution as to how we maintain quality control within our school.  We are an Inayan Eskrima club, and we feel that we have a rich legacy handed down to us by Suro Mike Inay, and by my teacher, Guro Rob McDonald.  We are fiercely protective of that legacy, and as Bruce Lee so eloquently stated many years ago, "If knowledge is power, let's pass it on discriminately".  We operate as a private club, and although we do promote growth, we will not compromise our membership nor our ideals in order to achieve growth.  In order to even get an invitation to attend one of our classes, a potential student must know someone already training in the club, and be recommended for possible membership.  The student is then invited to attend a training session to see if this is what they are looking for, and if they are suited to our kind of training (we do a healthy amount of contact training, and we do use live blades in a lot of our knife flow drills, but that is the way Guro Rob trained us, and we insist on maintaining the tradition).  This also affords us the chance to get to know the student, to see if they will fit in with the group, and if they are the kind of person that will represent us well.  We absolutely do not tolerate anyone who will engender ill feelings with any other school or style, as we believe all martial arts have something of value to offer, and we are no better than anyone else who is willing to put in the time to train hard.  Finally, the new student is accepted only by unanimous vote by the other students, and one vote can deny the person admission into our club.  We do this not to be elitist or because we believe we have something that is over and above what other schools have to offer.  We do this so as not to waste the time of the student, who may not, for whatever reason, be suited to our kind of training, and to not waste the time of the instructors, because we hold nothing back when we teach, so we look to potential students as someone who will be with us for the long haul.  We do not want anyone to get bits and pieces of our art, and then think they have an understanding of the whole picture, then attempt to present themselves as representative of our school and our system.  Eskrima has for too long be viewed as an "add-on" art, a weapons system that is learned to supplement an existing style.  Eskrima is a complete system of self-defense, and that is the image we intend to maintain with the general public, and the martial arts world.  The study of any martial art is a lifelong endeavor, and so we want people willing to dedicate themselves to a lifetime of self-exploration.  We have found, kind of as a side note of sorts, that maintaining this kind of quality control has caused our group to become very tight-knit, and we are all close friends as well as training partners. Kim Satterfield Chief Instructor Midwest School of Eskrima    "You must be the change you want to see in the world". Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:25:32 -0700 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Back to FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It would be great if there weren't crappy instructors or McScrima (or McDojo of any kind) or anything related to it. That would be awesome. But there will always be a certain percentage of people in any endeavor who are more interested in form than function, more interested in making a quick buck even if it means cheating their grandma, more interested in status than in accomplishment, more interested in having than in earning. That can't be helped. Personally I look at it this way (this draws on some tangential lines of thought): I don't feel that I'm in competition with other martial arts instructors in the area. This is probably because I don't think of my MA as a business. I recognize that what I teach and how I train isn't for everyone. For some it's too much work and too painful. For others it's too mild. I can't please everyone. I have, over the years, met many great martial artists who I have chosen not to train with. Maybe they live too far away or, while I recognize how incredible they are as MAists & teachers their area of specialty isn't of interest to me. Whatever. It's nothing personal and it's not that I think what they teach is inferior. It's just not for me. Having been on that side of it, I assume that when someone works with me or sees me teach and chooses not to train with me that it's the same thing. It's not a affront to my ability as a MAist or teacher and it's not that they necessarily think another instructor is "better." It just means I'm not the right instructor for them. Mike Federico Malibago wrote: > Ok, realized I am guilty of sidetracking the very thread I started about > testin the art, but figure it did bring some opinions on matters out there. > So how does feelings about crappy instructors, and the whole what is crappy, > what is alright fit with FMA. > > How do you feel about McScrima and the McGuro? Spreading the art so that > people at least will have the bug to look for more of it one day? Something > for everyone, e.g. some people like knitting, watching pro-sports, others like > McScrima? Something non-existant, because no single day can you really tell > if they are McScrima, only after many years, millions of tests (in various > forms, from fighting in tourneys, the occaisional life or death fight, > etc...), a few mathematical equations, you may have a guess? Damaging to the > art because then everyone thinks of FMA as McScrima or my favorite Eskrima > sticks (e.g. the eskrima stick form in the karate tourney, or I know how to > fight with Eskrima stick said in the same paragraph as bo, sai, tonfa, > etc...)? Food for the art, gives your guys people to pad their records on > when fighting in tourneys? Immaterial, you do your thing, they do theres, I > could care less about what other people do? Part of the journey, e.g. > everyone has to know the bad before they can know the good? > > Anyways, hope everyone has a fun happy fourth > > Sincerely > Federico Malibago > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:56:10 -0600 From: Gordon Walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] instruction Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hi, what's the better method of instruction ; to drill techniques until mastery, or to leave the class opened to personal expressions of concepts/angles, or would this be determined by the skill level of the students? I think my answer would be to drill @ first to gain a strong base of skills then open it up to concepts/angles. any stories or ideas regarding teaching? gord --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 21:52:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Kashino To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Instructors, McDojps and such Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone.  Jorge makes an interesting point.  Why do the McDojos with crappy instructors have more students than "serious" instructors?  It would seem that most people want to engage in an activity that makes them feel good rather than learn functional skill.  It also comes down to marketing.  My friend Paul Martin in Buffalo NY once posed an interesting model for this.  Some schools/instructors give their body of students what they want, while other instructors will only offer what they have.  The instructors that offer what the have are true to their art and their own convictions, presenting a stark but honest interpretation of their art.  Some (excluding myself) would consider this boring.  The instructors that offer what the public wants ride the wave of popular opinion, entertaining the latest fads and flash of "fashionable" martial arts training methods.  They are customer-driven, and put a "happy face" on the "business" of martial arts in order to make the sale.  I don't like the McSkrima or McGuro approach, as they tend to obscure the like between functionality and sport... no disrespect but most FMA tournaments do just that, but that is probably completely different thread for discussion.  On the other  hand, I can't really find fault with anyone making their living running a commercial school.  They do provide a service that really isn't available elsewhere.  Yes, some of them aren't completely honest in their representation of the art they profess and some just flat out teach crap.  I agree with Jorge; without them potential students wouldn't be able to comparison shop for what they want to get out of martial arts.  In 2006 I had a guy come to train with me who had some FMA training at a McSkrima McDojo in the Baltimore area that taught FMA as an "add-on."  After the first class he walked up to me and said "this is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!"  He related to me the school he had attended didn't put very much focus on the funtional combative nature of FMA.  All they did was aerobics with a stick and a few drills.  He came to my class hoping to see something other than that, and he did.  It just so happened my "offer what I have" apprach was what he was looking for.  That same student recently went with me to the Philippines and was promoted to Lakan Tatlo/3rd degree black belt by GM Vicente Sanchez.  On a personal note, I felt honored and validated as a teacher by that.  It made me feel like I had been doing something right all along.                 Let the McSkrima guys do their thing.  Pay them no mind.  Free thinking people will see them for what they are, especially when they see the alternatives. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:11:17 -0700 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] instruction Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That would be my answer as well. Mike Gordon Walker wrote: > hi, > what's the better method of instruction ; to drill techniques until > mastery, or to leave the class opened to personal expressions of > concepts/angles, or would this be determined by the skill level of the > students? > I think my answer would be to drill @ first to gain a strong base of > skills then open it up to concepts/angles. > any stories or ideas regarding teaching? > gord > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:23:05 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Always a student Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 08:07 PM 7/3/2009, you wrote: >One of my favorite lines is... sometimes a teacher, but always a >student. > >Kinda helps keep the ego in check. I like that! >Ray >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Michael J. Gallagher mikejoe7g@yahoo.com Cortland, NY USA "I am not A big fat panda. I am THE big fat Panda." -- Po, KUNG FU PANDA --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest