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From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Mon Jul 27 08:08:23 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id n6RD8MS12509 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:08:22 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E5DB28199; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:29:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:28:09 +0200 Message-ID: <20090727152809.12750.25096.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #164 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. article re philippine trip (jay de leon) 2. Re: article re philippine trip (Talibung Antike) 3. New videos on McGrath YouTube page (william mcgrath) 4. Re: The harmonization of completmentary opposites: Freedom and Responsibility (jhfischer@fuse.net) 5. Re: The harmonization of completmentary opposites: Freedom and Responsibility (iPat) 6. Re: Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 (iPat) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] article re philippine trip Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net   here is my article on my recent trip to the philippines.     part 1 http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/2009/ffa_u sa-phiippine-odyssey_09-pt1.html   part 2 http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/2009/ffa_u sa-phiippine-odyssey_09-pt2.html     if a link is broken, just follow the sequence in the website.   just be reminded that this is primarily for family consumption, but i did have some arnis activities while i was there.  you can see pictures of some arnis as well traditional martial arts notables.  you can also read it just for the "filipino flavor."   enjoy.     jay de leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com   --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Talibung Antike Subject: Re: [Eskrima] article re philippine trip To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, Next time you'll have your Philippine odyssey don't miss dropping by your friend here in Iloilo City, Panay Island Cheers... --- On Mon, 7/27/09, jay de leon wrote: From: jay de leon Subject: [Eskrima] article re philippine trip To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Monday, 27 July, 2009, 1:13 AM   here is my article on my recent trip to the philippines.     part 1 http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/2009/ffa_u sa-phiippine-odyssey_09-pt1.html   part 2 http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/2009/ffa_u sa-phiippine-odyssey_09-pt2.html     if a link is broken, just follow the sequence in the website.   just be reminded that this is primarily for family consumption, but i did have some arnis activities while i was there.  you can see pictures of some arnis as well traditional martial arts notables.  you can also read it just for the "filipino flavor."   enjoy.     jay de leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com   _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Yahoo! Mail Now Faster and Cleaner. Experience it today at http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:45:40 -0700 (PDT) From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] New videos on McGrath YouTube page Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks,   I have two new videos up on my YouTube page. They show Maestro Rico Acosta of Kuntaw Kali Kruzada and myself teaching at a joint PTI/KKK seminar in New York City.  http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg   The 5 hour seminar had an interesting format. Maestro Acosta would show a Kuntaw Kali Kruzada technique and then I would show something similar from Pekiti-Tirsia. The students seemed to really enjoy this format and I got to see some new material, which is always a treat for me.   I want to thank the Acosta brothers for inviting me to this seminar. Their hospitality and camaraderie were deeply appreciated.   Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath www.pekiti.com www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 1:17:25 -0400 From: To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The harmonization of completmentary opposites: Freedom and Responsibility Cc: iPat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey iPat How is the weather over there?...... You can quote all of the scholarly statistics that you would like but it come down to the basic principle that poverty is in every society and some one will always try and take something away from you if you let them .It is hardwired into the human being .You haven’t shown me any real proof that not allowing firearms in a free society has any positive effect . If anything I would say that violence is a by product of a lack of education ...not just being poor .I think a close second is lack of supervision and disfunctional family environments .....not things that go bang . You stated in one of your earlier post that you simple wouldn’t alow yourself to be put in a situation that would incur this kind of violence.I am interested in what your plan of attack or defense if ever put in a situation out of this control .I made a reference to civil unrest and natural disaster in a earlier post in defense of possesing a firearm .What would be your course of defense to defend your castle per say in the event of being outnumbered say ......20 to 1 .I’m not being under handed when I ask this ,I would think that this has had to cross some ones mind when firearms were taken away from your society .Also help educate me a little ,was this gun ban voted on or just past and then enforced on the people? STAY LOW AND CHECK 360 JOHN --- iPat wrote: > I think its inverted Marc! > By that i mean that - in the nicest possible way - you are the experiment! > > We have been in the same state to which the pilgrim fathers left these > shores in 1620 to set up in what is now the US something better or > fairer to what was here. The control of the population to protect the > interests of the establishment was clearly the case when Henry VII > banned private armies and current legislation is all about the control > of population. > > The banning of hand guns to stop the rogue slaughter of children > merely is a step towards populist totalitarianism or what some blame > as the nanny state. But it always existed so it is simply playing out > a role. We had Cromwells New Model Army sieze control in 1645, but it > was the equivelent of the Taliban with its Puritan crusade and merely > repackaged the staus quo. > > We are subjects here, although the term citizen is now applicable in > newspeak( An Orwelian term used in 1984), but the vast amount of > wealth is controlled by a small percentage of the population. The two > minute hate ( An Orwelian term used in 1984) is currently focussed on > extreme Islamisists to keep us in check and subservient to greater > proliferation of civil right busting technology in the name of a war > on terror. We need figures of hate to make us feel righteous. > > In the UK the last few decades, whilst we have seen wealth created on > an unprecedented scale , Wealth inequality has increased keeping the > staus quo in control > * 93% of all wealth in 1999 was held by the top 50 per cent of the population. > * In 1999 the top 10% of the population own over half of personal wealth. > * Between 1988 and 1999 the top 1% of the population have increased > their share of personal wealth from 17% to 23%, suggesting that wealth > inequality is worsening. > [http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=2] > > But the will of those to go to a land which would be fairer maybe > isn't the case anymore. In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% > of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled > 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the > nation's wealth > > So while we politely bicker over the right to defend ourselves and > what that means, we ignore the fact that we are simply serfs to the > rulers of our respective lands or proles as Orwell preferred. We look > at our neighbour with suspicion, frightened that they may steal what > is ours, paying protection money to the Lords which subjegates us > further and sounds like a protection racke t from The Sopranos. We see > the Governments in both countries give a helping hand to the bowler > hats (bankers) but turn their backs on the hard hats. > > If we are serious about self defence then we have to address the > distribution of wealth as most crime has its roots in poverty. For > that the founding fathers meant well but it got hijacked along the > line. IMHO! > > I dont suggest this is the place for this type of discussion, so i > hope we can go back to topics more relavent. Peace to you all! > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Marc Denny wrote: > > > I certainly wish you guys well in your experiment, but fear that you will > > come to regret it (criminal issues, social chaos, group conflicts) -- and > > will find that if and when you do change your minds you will not be allowed > > by your State to reverse directions and it will be too late. > > > > > -- > Pat Davies > To discuss freedom is the first step towards denying it. Freedom > cannot be prescribed, cannot be defined and cannot be conditional, for > when it is any of these, it ceases to be freedom. Freedom is not open > to discussion. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:51:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The harmonization of completmentary opposites: Freedom and Responsibility From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:17 AM, wrote: > Hey iPat > >  How is the weather over there?...... wet dry wet dry. Its called summer here. > You can quote all of the scholarly statistics that you would like but it come down to the basic principle that poverty is in every society and some one will always try and take something away from you if you let them .It is hardwired into the human being .You haven’t shown me any real proof that not allowing firearms in a free society has any positive effect . John. Im not trying to prove anything to you. It is you who is looking to satisfy your belief. I'm very much in peace with myself and whilst I can understand the anger of Ste who had his sport destroyed by the ruling there are still plenty of ways to shoot in the country. > If anything I would say that violence is a by product of a lack of education ...not just being poor .I think a close second is lack of supervision and disfunctional family environments .....not things that go bang . > To an extent i agree. Lack of education is poverty though and if you have no value then nothing else around you does either. At teh same time material riches dont satisy the soul so the richest man in material wealth can be the poorest spiritually. Do you agree? >You stated in one of your earlier post that you simple wouldn’t alow yourself to be put in a situation that would incur this kind of violence.I am interested in what your plan of attack or defense if ever put in a situation out of this control .I made a reference to civil unrest and natural disaster in a earlier post in defense of possesing a firearm .What would be your course of defense to defend your castle per say in the event of being outnumbered say ......20 to 1 .I’m not being under handed when I ask this ,I would think that this has had to cross some ones mind when firearms were taken away from your society .Also help educate me a little ,was this gun ban voted on or just past and then enforced on the people? > Most of this is what you may want to call risk management. As a subsea engineer i look at risk from the design stage of buiding a subsea pipeline. I look at the risk in fabrication, loading the product onto a vessel through to its installation and commissioning. The most extreme risk is if a plane drops onto the vessel from a great height. We look at it and give it a value, a probability value(pv). Where the pv comes into our acceptance matrix defined by industry standards, we act to reduce the risk. I dont walk around worried about planes falling on me. In using this type of Risk Management, most of us can avoid points of conflict, learning how to manage the risk. I can avoid being in an area where bars tend to empty at certain times of the night and where drunken brawls are likely to happen which is common in the UK. By not wearing exotic items of wealth, i will not attract thieves and by not walking around with ipod earphones in my ears i can be more alert to my surroundings. I dont talk on the cell phone when in crowded areas. I lock the car doors to avoid snatch theft from the car whilst in heavy traffic. I take responsibility for my environment. As you may or may not be aware, we have had a long term terrorist situation in the UK with the IRA and we have had serious rioting in very depressed areas of London (Brixton) and Liverpool to name just two. Apart from easy targets such as paedophiles and other sex offenders, in the cases of these riots the focus of attention was clearly on the tools of the state, the police. Times like this also saw looting in these small areas of conflict. Shootings have taken place in our cities in recent times and they are drug related and tend to be kept in house. Invariably they sometimes bleed out and an innocent gets hurt and recently 11-year-old Rhys Jones was shot by teenage killers on BMX bikes. Celebrities in london dived for cover a month ago as a man wearing a motorcycle helmet and brandishing two pistols burst into a restaurant in pursuit of another man. Five shots were fired, injuring two people. The gunman's initial quarry was hit in the leg while a bysitter received minor wounds from flying glass. Of course an armed citizen could have shot him and stopped it, but these cases are, whilst not rare enough still very rare that we don't need a knee jerk reaction to deal with it. Incidents like this go back to the 50's and even earlier but are very small in probability. If we can encourage youth away from ganag culture we can mininise it further. Education and opportunities are the real answers here. Now, you have clearly stated - somewhat naiivly i think on a public forum as it can be used against you - that would arm yourself with a firearm in any country you went to. That means you would be funding criminal elements in our country who would sell you the firearm because there is no way to get it otherwise, much in the same way I could not buy a firearm in your country on a tourist visa. You would be aiding drug gangs in their actions. That would be irresponsible. Why, if you are really trying to understand, do you not speak to those here on this list who have travelled to this country and Europe and discuss with them how they felt without their firearm? remember. I'm not advocating you give up your firearm. I'm simply stating that it is not part of our way and in general it works out pretty good. I was in London a week ago at a festival and through my whole stay i never once became concerned for our safety.The US model wouldnt fit here and our model wouldnt fit there. That is about it for me on this subject Im afraid. Sorry for being a bore to some. -- Pat Davies To discuss freedom is the first step towards denying it. Freedom cannot be prescribed, cannot be defined and cannot be conditional, for when it is any of these, it ceases to be freedom. Freedom is not open to discussion. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:58:59 +0100 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Marc Denny wrote: > Woof Pat et al: >The experiment of yours to which I was referring though was that of > unilateral disarmament.  This is a separate matter entirely. > This is the crux of the matter Marc, why we look at the issue from different perspectives. As a Brit I have a long history of being subjugated so much so that it is hard wired in us. We have a culture in which we have been kept in place by our Lords, Kings and Queens. the only time we were armed was to be fodder in the Somme or Dunkirk. Many of the fishing boats and crew that saved many a man at Dunkirk were not armed. Henry VII stopped private armies and the last remnants of what was the disarming of the people was after Dunblane. We have it DNA's into our system! The experiment was going on well before your country was even known about and is just another form of tithes that the church sold to peasants fearful for their souls. Your perspective is built upon a dream by those who got away and wanted something better. We talk from different languages. > > The reference to Orwell's two minutes of hate is apt.  Unfortunately there > seems to be a very real problem of religious Islamic fascism within the UK, > Europe, and to a lesser extent the US.  Maybe an armed free people would be > of greater help than State cameras on every lamp post-- particularly with > laws supportive of self-defense and stopping criminal activities? > Because of our close links with Pakistan dating back to our illustrious Empire days. Being armed on July 7th that fateful tube or bus journey would not have stopped the bombs. that is the terror. Its not the bearded ones to be afraid of, it's the ones that adopt the screen of acceptability and whom use the cloak of acceptability to decieve. > > ...What I> don't follow though is how you get from this logic (e.g. paying protection > money to the Lords) to opposing people having the tools to take > responsiblity for protecting themselves! The same way the junkie will protect his dealer. Or that someone so keen to promote the right to bear arms to protect themselves might live in an area with a fault line! I dont actually OPPOSE, as you suggest. I simply understand the situation and know, based on historical perspective that it wont be changing soon. The nature of the beast in Europe is to manage the population in a nanny state mentality. > > I remember years ago Guro Inosanto saying that martial arts were routed in > Love, starting with the belief that each of us was worthy of defending. agreed When > the State seeks to deny our fundamental human right to defend ourselves, it > seems to me a subject well worthy and suitable for a list of people who seek > the ability to take responsibility for defending themselves. It seems to me > the very foundation of Freedom itself. > > Our rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness descend from our > Creator, NOT the State.  To pursue happiness, we must have freedom of > choice.  For the choice to be meaningful we must have freedom of speech. > This is made real by separation of church and state--- and enforced by the > arms of we the people. > I disagree. The creator did not create religion, did not create any rights. Man did. There was no contract to sign when we came out of the womb. What was a luxury to one generation becomes a necessity to the next generation. Man creates belief structures. The most important act of existance is self survival in order to let the human species survive. By creating rules we protect ourselves from self destruction. Some peoples live in a totalitarian state, others live in so called democracies, but the species lives. We - in our current situation - are learning that we must co exist with our host to protect ourselves or it will destroy us. Choice can only have value if you know what there is to choose. Would there be freedom to choose if your got shot or gassed? By the definition used the answer is yes. So choice is a red herring because it gives us a false sense of satisfaction that we do have a say when we are simply no different from a midge that buzzes around the edge of a lake doing what role it has to do for the host we call earth. What choice we have is to make our destiny as conflict free as possible in fulfilling it. Because Life has purpose. A quote i like: To discuss freedom is the first step towards denying it. Freedom cannot be prescribed, cannot be defined and cannot be conditional, for when it is any of these, it ceases to be freedom. Freedom is not open to discussion. Whatever our self created belief structure we adopt, it is our survival that matters more than anything. So if in our state we have no guns and in your state it does, you can not say one is wrong and one is right as long as the eventual purpose is attained. As martial artists and athletes, we recognise the need to be strong in health, mind and body so that our survival and our children are stronger. Some consider materialism as a means to attain this, but i see their kids grow fat and lazy. Obesity is becoming far more dangerous to the wealthier nations than the terrorists in foreign lands. In the end, when mankind exists no more the earth will still be in existence and whatever we argue about will mean zilch. Which is why there is no need to fear each other, force our beliefs on one another. I train in the martial arts to make me grow in a spiritual manner but also so i can take responsibility for my direct environment rather than be subservient to this or any state. And when i meet with you later this year (as i intend), it will be accompanied with a huge smile regardless of any differences in our viewpoints. Time for medication.........lol -- Pat Davies To discuss freedom is the first step towards denying it. Freedom cannot be prescribed, cannot be defined and cannot be conditional, for when it is any of these, it ceases to be freedom. Freedom is not open to discussion. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest