From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jul 28 18:13:04 2009 Date: 28 Jul 2009 18:13:04 -0500 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 1248822784 0000000000 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Tue Jul 28 17:28:35 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id n6SMSZh24854 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:28:35 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B24EB281F9; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:48:22 +0200 Message-ID: <20090729004822.29507.84451.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #165 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 (Ray) 2. Re: Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 (iPat) 3. Freedom and Responsibility (william mcgrath) 4. Re: Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 (Ray) 5. Arms for the UK legal system (Julian Gilmour) 6. RE: Arms for the UK legal system (2@msfencing.org) 7. RE: Arms for the UK legal system (Sonny Padilla) 8. Arms for the UK (Nick Hughes) 9. RE: Arms for the UK legal system (Sonny Padilla) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Actually you were about as armed as we were/are right up until the WWI timeframe. Handguns were rather common on both sides of the pond. It wasn't until 'the people' started overthrowing governments in Europe that your government became afraid and thought it best to disarm the people to protect themselves instead of permitting the people to protect themselves. Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net On Jul 27, 2009, at 3:58 AM, iPat wrote: > the only time we were armed was to be fodder in the Somme or Dunkirk. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:42:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net true, but already legislation was in momentum The Vagrancy Act 1824, which was set up in a reaction against the large number of people roaming the country with weapons brought back from the Napoleonic wars. The Act allowed the police to arrest "any person with any gun, pistol, hanger [dagger], cutlass, bludgeon or other offensive weapon ... with intent to commit a felonious act" 1903 The Pistols Act: restrictions on the sale of firearms to children or drunkards. 1920 Firearms Act: spurred by fears of a possible surge in crime from the large number of guns available following World War I and in part due to fears of working class unrest 1937 Firearms Act: self-defence was no longer a suitable reason for applying for a firearm certificate, and directed police to refuse such applications on the grounds that "firearms cannot be regarded as a suitable means of protection and may be a source of danger". 1968 Firearms Act 1988 Firearms (Amendment) Act. This confined semi-automatic and pump-action centre fire rifles; military weapons firing explosive ammunition; short shotguns that had magazines; and both elevated pump-action and self-loading rifles to the Prohibited category. Hungerford inspired this. Gun control laws in Northern Ireland are slightly different than mainland Britain, being primarily affected by the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004. Self-defence is accepted as a good reason to obtain and own a firearm. It also has a much higher homicide rate with a firearm. Some interesting stats here for around teh world: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Ray wrote: > Actually you were about as armed as we were/are right up until the WWI > timeframe.  Handguns were rather common on both sides of the pond.  It > wasn't until 'the people' started overthrowing governments in Europe that > your government became afraid and thought it best to disarm the people to > protect themselves instead of permitting the people to protect themselves. > > Ray Terry > -- -- Pat Davies To discuss freedom is the first step towards denying it. Freedom cannot be prescribed, cannot be defined and cannot be conditional, for when it is any of these, it ceases to be freedom. Freedom is not open to discussion. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Freedom and Responsibility Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks, I just finished an excellent book that addresses this subject: Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin. http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Tyranny-Conservative-Mark-Levin/dp/1416562850 I highly recommend it. Chapter four of my fantasy novel Asulon also has a section that describes how the founding fathers sought a balence between freedom and responsibility. I have written my novels in a way to get young people to read about Conservative principles and traditional values without having to plod through a dry textbook. Look for Asulon chapter four on my book website in the sample section: http://www.theswordoffire.com/samples.htm I am very interested in getting feedback on this section, especially from those who have written so eloquently on this thread. Asulon and Eretzel, the first two books in The Sword of Fire series, are available now on Amazon.com and also on the Pekiti website, where they come with a Pekiti-Tirsia DVD. http://www.amazon.com/ASULON-William-R-McGrath/dp/0980105803 http://www.pekiti.com/store/store.php?crn=209 Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Harmonization of Complementary Opposites Part 3 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:26:41 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This was primarily the one that, imho, really began taking the UK down the wrong road. It was passed primarily in reaction to events that were occurring in places like Russia. I'm sure other excuses were created, but... :) Back to FMA? Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net On Jul 27, 2009, at 6:42 AM, iPat wrote: > 1920 Firearms Act: spurred by fears of a possible surge in crime from > the large number of guns available following World War I and in part > due to fears of working class unrest --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Julian Gilmour To: Escrima Digest Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:11:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all I think I am going to arm myself. I’m not normally one for peer pressure, but I have taken on board the list’s recent comments and found a compromise. I will continue staying on the right side of UK law and not carry a blade or a firearm, but there are legal alternatives and I would like any advice anyone has to offer. I am thinking of my options, and I am thinking of kubotans, palm sticks, ‘tactical’ pens. I’ll probably have to try a few out. I haven’t yet Googled too much, but if anyone has any experience of such tools where they have worked well in practice, or not, please let me know. The Smith and Wesson Tactical pen seems an possibility, as does the KZ Extreme Defence pen – surely the name alone inspires fear ;) Cheers Julian _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:41:43 -0500 Organization: Mississippi Academy of Arms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> I think I am going to arm myself. I m not normally one for peer pressure, but >> I have taken on board the list s recent comments and found a compromise. >> >> I will continue staying on the right side of UK law and not carry a blade or a >> firearm, but there are legal alternatives and I would like any advice anyone >> has to offer. Julian , Carry a Walking Cane with you. Its legal in most societies because they think you need it for ambulation. Blessings, Rez "Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it..." Jeremiah 6:16a (NIV) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Sonny Padilla To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:10:37 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Carry a mini maglite my first line of defense. Sonny > From: julian_gilmour@hotmail.com > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:11:31 +0000 > Subject: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system > > Hi all > > I think I am going to arm myself. I’m not normally one for peer pressure, but > I have taken on board the list’s recent comments and found a compromise. > > I will continue staying on the right side of UK law and not carry a blade or a > firearm, but there are legal alternatives and I would like any advice anyone > has to offer. > > I am thinking of my options, and I am thinking of kubotans, palm sticks, > ‘tactical’ pens. I’ll probably have to try a few out. > > I haven’t yet Googled too much, but if anyone has any experience of such tools > where they have worked well in practice, or not, please let me know. > > The Smith and Wesson Tactical pen seems an possibility, as does the KZ Extreme > Defence pen – surely the name alone inspires fear ;) > > > Cheers > > Julian > _________________________________________________________________ > With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply. > > Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:53:53 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Nick Hughes Subject: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hmmm, Not wanting to rain on anyone's strawberry patch but there's a couple of problems with this... 1. Lots of things can be used as improvised weapons but you cannot, according to English law, carry anything if it's intended purpose is to be deployed as a weapon. Ergo, if you are a lawfully employed plumber and happen to have a wrench to hand when attacked it could be argued you were defending yourself justifiably (assuming the use of force you applied was in the correct proportion to the threat you faced). If, on the other hand, you are caught carrying a pen called anything along the lines of "defender" etc (worse if it doesn't write as some tac pens don't) you are in a heap of trouble based upon the fact your actions were pre-meditated. The walking stick is viable but I'd still have a "tame" doctor declare I had a dodgy knee or ankle before carrying one. 2. Regarding most improvised weapons - well, there's no polite way to put this but they're gimmicks. What exactly can you do with a kubotan or mini maglite that you can't do with your fists - more effectively, faster and without having to try and access said weapon? Fights are won by rendering the other person hors du combat (and for us that more than likely means out cold) especially during fights with multiple opponents. The fastest way to do that is hit people in the head hard and fast. Weapons that make that easier to accomplish typically have heft, so think along the lines of half a house brick, a baseball or cricket bat, iron pipe etc. If they don't have that heft, (kubotans, mini-mag lights, plastic pokey things, tac pens etc) then you're not going to achieve anywhere near the desired effect and are better off punching/kicking. The tac pen in fact is plain silly. Even in the Bourne film where Hollywood had its chance to glorify and embellish the pen in combat, Damon's character shoved it in his opponent's fist whereupon the opponent pulled it out and went on fighting. Use one of those on me and you're going to poke a hole in my cheek at which point you're going to get battered. Of course someone's going to raise the old "what if I stuck you in the eye" question. Problem one is can you? Most people talk about this whereas the reality is completely different. Secondly, you have to access it. Third, If you can get that close you could have just stuck your finger in there, and you still haven't knocked me out. Hope that helps N Sweat Dries, Blood Clots, Bones Heal, Train Therefore, Like Maniacs. Nick Hughes Chief Instructor F.I.S.T. Fight Survival Training --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Sonny Padilla To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:46:06 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Julian, Further to my reply earlier you could also use or carry a bracelet which can be bought at a shikh store it is very good for cqc or if you wish you can contact Mr. Raffy Pambuan of Florida and ask for his PAL (Police Assist Locks), shape like a French Curve just like a toy but good for impact disarming, can be used as brass knuckel, good for takedowns and joint locks. Cheers, Sonny > From: julian_gilmour@hotmail.com > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:11:31 +0000 > Subject: [Eskrima] Arms for the UK legal system > > Hi all > > I think I am going to arm myself. I’m not normally one for peer pressure, but > I have taken on board the list’s recent comments and found a compromise. > > I will continue staying on the right side of UK law and not carry a blade or a > firearm, but there are legal alternatives and I would like any advice anyone > has to offer. > > I am thinking of my options, and I am thinking of kubotans, palm sticks, > ‘tactical’ pens. I’ll probably have to try a few out. > > I haven’t yet Googled too much, but if anyone has any experience of such tools > where they have worked well in practice, or not, please let me know. > > The Smith and Wesson Tactical pen seems an possibility, as does the KZ Extreme > Defence pen – surely the name alone inspires fear ;) > > > Cheers > > Julian > _________________________________________________________________ > With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply. > > Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest