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From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Mon Aug 3 17:26:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id n73MQud09155 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:26:56 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752E3B2813C; Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:49:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:48:22 +0200 Message-ID: <20090804004822.32003.85986.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 16 #171 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. key fobs and kubatons; training in multiple styles (Stephen Lamade) 2. Re: Culture and the Arts (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: Multiple styles... (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Culture and the Arts (Al Sardinas) 5. Re: Multiple systems... (Al Sardinas) 6. Serrada video (Ray) 7. FMA in Camarillo, CA?? (epunsala@hotmail.com) 8. Blancia exposed, again (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Stephen Lamade To: Eskrima Digest Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 02:39:04 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] key fobs and kubatons; training in multiple styles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re. key fobs and kubatons: Personally I find that the mini-Maglight AA flashlight is the most inobstrusive, perfectly legal palmstick that one can carry. It won't raise eyebrows in most places, except perhaps government building metal detector stations and airport security stations, etc., and carried openly in a carrier on your belt next to your keys it looks pretty ordinary, if not a little geeky, in the responsible male "always prepared" kind of way. It bears repeating that it's not so much what you're carrying as it is why you're carrying that matters. I carry a small flashlight with me all the time and can't count the number of times I've actually needed to use it qua flashlight - it's made life a lot easier on occasion. There are literally dozens of other, small, ready-to-hand tools in my garage and work bench that find their way into my pockets at some point or another - but they're there not because I think that I'm going to have to use them, but simply because I have used them. Re. multiple styles: I study two FMA's, and am finding that similarities between the two far outweigh the differences. You can learn a lot about San Miguel Eskrima by studying Pekiti Tirsia's Seguidas, and vice versa, for example - particularly with respect to how different arts are expressed in different ranges. It doesn't hurt though that they compliment each other so well: if you're going to study more than one art at a time, have some experience in one before you take on another, and make sure that they have a good "fit." Best, Steve Lamade www.northshoreac.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 04:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Culture and the Arts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Best answer I can come up with has to do with your familiarity with the local value system - the emphasis on group harmony, on mutually giving face, on looking out for others, etc. While many Americans will tend towards giving value to the individual, many Pinoys will tend towards group harmony, hence, while training in groups in the local setting, there is a tendency towards watching out for one another's welfare, on mutually harmonizing with one another (ever realize how many drills tend towards this direction? break the harmony and you're dead), on mutual support. hence, as maurice pointed out, many students tend to stay with their teacher long after they've graduated and can teach on their own. some of the best teachers i know always gave face to their students even during demos - they made their students look good and so these guys stayed on long. more on this later. but this is an interesting question, bot ----- Original Message ---- From: Federico Malibago To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 5:03:42 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Culture and the Arts I guess one of the things floating in the back of my head when I originally posed the question, was what is the role of culture in Filipino Arts, particularly when one goes beyond the obviously martial (e.g. repitition, competition, etc...). I have to admit, for myself the biggest difference that hit me training PI, wasnt so much the physical, but the cultural. If I looked at a video of my own experiences in PI, blanked out the sound, and memory, and selectively edited it, to cut out all the standing around time, the laid back time, etc...and just focused on physical techniques, I would not guess that there was any difference between the Western and PI approaches, based purely on the physical techniques. But at least for me, the true difference that struck me training in PI, vs the west, was just how much culture was infused into the training, and Im not talking memorizing a few Tagalog phrases calling an umbrella block a payong block or whatever, but just on a deeper, more developmental level, how the art developed as something truly Filipino, vs a bunch of techniques based around rattan stick. It was the culture that stood out for me, as being something recognizable, familiar, and natural. So I guess part of what I really wanted to ask, was what makes the FMA, a Filipino art? Is it just the physical, what does culture (more than just having native terms) play in making these arts Filipino? Sincerely Federico _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:13:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Multiple styles... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't see anything wrong with your liking how other styles do their moves - I've also trained (and still am) training in more than one FMA (well, two mostly)... What you've mentioned below is what you like for yourself. That's what's natural for you, so that's OK. That shouldn't be a problem for your personal use... but it will be if your teacher from a particular style sees you doing something not in his curriculum and doesn't like it. In which case, keep it to yourself. (althoughsome teacherswould say, "that's nice. now, here's how we deal with that." you learnsomething, and he has fun with you. win-win ;-) i've witnessed it happen, hehe) For me, the issue will be when you begin to teach others. which style will you represent? whose lineage will you carry? if you teach more than one style, with whose curriculum will you begin first? if you teachLameco,teach Lameco. if you teach DTS,teach it properly. Its about obligations and honoring those who have invested time in your development. thus, if you will carry the Lameco name, then be clear that what you are teaching is Lameco - that way, you won't be accused of misrepresentation. same for any other style, FMA or not. If its for your own use, then be clear about it. For myself, learning more than one style has made me appreciate what I have and how to do it. That being said, I found myself to be a tiny frog in a small pond compared to some of the guys I've met. made me wish i had been able to train with them earlier. ah well. Bot ----- Original Message ---- From: James Hudgens To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 12:24:17 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Multiple styles... Back to eskrima.... ?I have a "system" question to those of you who have studied multiple styles: How do you resolve the differences between styles (in your teaching) that invariably occur?? What I mean is, no single style has everything in it, and does everything well.? (an example:? I have been trained in primarily Lameco, but I Love Dekiti Tirsia Serradas' #8 and #11 strike redondos.? I also really like GM Cacoy's style of blocking, which is different from Lameco and DTS Kali, but prefer the stepping of DTS Kali.? - See what I mean?) So, I'm curious how everyone else deals with these structual differences.? Do you ignore them and stay true to one system?? Do you adjust a block or a strike here and there (and have you left your style of origin?) . I'm not trying to start some stuff here...Just curious as to what smarter people than I do about the same situation. Bahala Na, James Hudgens http://dynamicfightingarts.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2,700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Al Sardinas" To: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:25:20 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Culture and the Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Federico Malibago wrote " But at least for me, the true difference that struck me training in PI, vs the west, was just how much culture was infused into the training, and Im not talking memorizing a few Tagalog phrases calling an umbrella block a payong block or whatever, but just on a deeper, more developmental level, how the art developed as something truly Filipino, vs a bunch of techniques based around rattan stick. It was the culture that stood out for me, as being something recognizable, familiar, and natural. So I guess part of what I really wanted to ask, was what makes the FMA, a Filipino art? Is it just the physical, what does culture (more than just having native terms) play in making these arts Filipino? In respect to the Garimot System, the Filipino culture has always been infused in to the training. Each skill taught is based on an application that was used in farming, hunting, fighting etc. in the Philippines. From footwork in the rice fields to roping a pig to mopping the floor, the culture there is expressed here. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of the Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Al Sardinas" To: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:25:22 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Multiple systems... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry if I was not clear and I meant no harm in my post and I appreciate your well-mannered response. So in reference to "no single style has everything in it, and does everything well" I will make these statements that applies to all FMA: If the system you study is based on drills from one system, drills from another system, drills period then your system will not have everything in it and will not do everything well. If the system you study is based on concepts and these concepts are applied correctly then your system will have everything needed to do everything well. To give a quick example, everbody knows the drill 2 x2 = 4, 4 x 4 = 16, etc. But to calculate 2,348 x 99,834 the concept is applied and not the drill. Guro James wrote" I?Tm unsure as to how to take Guro Al?Ts post. I choose to check my own sarcastic nature and chalk up my lack of understanding the response to the limiting nature of email communication. Al Sardinas wrote: ?oI do not know Lameco, DTS and Cacoy styles and I too am not trying to start some stuff here but from the above I deduct that you are not sure that no single style has everything because you end your statement as a question. ?o I ended the statement ?oSee what I mean?? as a question to as I was inquiring if my explanation was clear - nothing more. If you mean ?oWhat I mean is, no single style has everything in it, and does everything well.??then, the ?oquestion mark was a character that did not translate over email. The statement ends with a period, not a question mark. Again, my question was inquiring of ?oothers? handling of said situation. I?Tm not so full of ego that I think I am the only one, or the first one, to find said conundrum and I'm curious how others handle(d) it so I can learn...." Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of the Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: Eskrima-Digest Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:48:57 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Serrada video Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Old popular vid of Angel performing Serrada with Leo Fong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMZmdj4HI9A For those that know Serrada, what major error is Leo making? Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: To: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:00:42 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Camarillo, CA?? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I'm going to be in the Camarillo/Oxnard area on Friday, August 7th and was wondering if there any local FMA schools that I can visit and maybe workout or if anyone there would like to workout on Friday evening? I am a guro under GM Narrie Babao in San Diego. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackTo School_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: Eskrima-Digest Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:27:45 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Blancia exposed, again Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHtRnWBBORU Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest