From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #2 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 3 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 002 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V5 #515 the_dojang: Re: ronda sweet the_dojang: Re: Federation Alphabet Soup the_dojang: Re:E-BOOKS HAVE FINALLY ARRIVED!!!! the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #1 the_dojang: changing-cont the_dojang: Changing Schools the_dojang: Changing schools: a reply Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #1 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:46:34 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V5 #515 << One thing I'm not so good at and would like any advice on, is what to do with opponents who go after you with three or more strikes, one right after another. We recently had our school tournament, and I came in second in my class, beaten by a woman who I'm told is a former kickboxer, who kicks-kicks-kicks, etc. One or two I can easily block, but so many in succession? What do you guys do with an opponent like that? (Not whining - - I was pleased with how I did in the tournament, and all of us competitors remain friends)! >> Before I begin--Happy New Year to all! If you find yourself getting pushed back with two or more kicks, you are definitely allowing them too much space and time to think. There are many ways available to stop this person from kicking you from one side of the ring out the other... First thing to think of, if you have enough room, get in and jam them. They can't go anywhere, and you can easily break the jam and counter. If that doesn't work, get out of the way because 90% of the time they're moving linearly right at ya. Side step, lead them on a wild goose chase, counter. There are other little things you can do to keep from getting hit by a barrage of kicks, make sure there isn't much room for them to even start. You can also keep them in your kicking or punching range while keeping out of theirs if you are bigger... I've dealt with the same problem, but mostly in class. Another thing: Don't play "my turn, your turn" with your opponent. In a tournament, your main objective is to score as many bloody points as possible. If at all possible, try to avoid blocking (w/out countering) all the time. Block, counter, follow through. That's all I can think of... and it's good that you can keep the competition in the ring. There's no point in dragging it out. Besides, some of those people could become your most worthy allies when it comes to trading techniques and just hanging out with altogether. Kim Jones nekochan00@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:52:33 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: ronda sweet ronda wrote: ...Even a female in a male dominated sport. Even a 4th dan in a world of GRANDMASTERS. You just have to believe what you teach - Preserving and Indomitable Spirit and Conviction of Ultimate Victory.>> ronda, i agree with you one hundred percent. thanks to you for all you do to keep us informed and to keep them on their toes. happy new year to you. melinda ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 08:59:34 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Federation Alphabet Soup In a message dated 12/30/98 7:33:49 PM, you wrote: >Yep. Politics. As soon as someone thinks they can run things better than >the way things are being curently run they open up their own >"federation/association". Or if they feel they are being slighted in some >way or another or they have objections to the direction of their martial art >they break off and create their own little organization. This is sort of true. I know that sometimes a Korean Grandmaster/Federation head will often get upset when there are Masters who won't "toe the line." (Complain about the fees, refuse to travel to foreign countries for tournaments, etc.) The custom and belief is that if your leader says "jump" you say "how high?" This is NOT the American way of doing things. It is a difficult cultural division. I did not train in Korea. If my Master told me (not asked) that I was going to fly to Wales, pay all my own expenses PLUS the tournament AND seminar fees of hundreds of additional dollars, I'd tell him where to get off. My attitude would not be considered respectful and I would be asked to leave or punished in some other way (delay of testing, etc.). I personally consider respect to be a two way street, I am told this is an American thing...I don't know. >Some school owners don't give a damn how their "federation" is being run, >others spend way too much time trying to keep track of/participate in it. I'm glad you said some. I personally know a few Grandmasters who are *very* involved in how their "federation" is run. Thier belief is that if thier name is on the school/federation/etc., then it will be run to their standards. There are some that don't give a damn so long as the money comes rolling in. I know a few of those types as well. >Either way, what it amounts to is an "Association" is nothing more than a >few initials to tack on to TKD in the yellow pages. I say, join them all! >Your schools name could read: >Joes ITF,WTF,USTU, BUTF, MDK, SBD, TSD, TKD School. >You could nickname your school Alphabet Dojang. Most federations are looking for a level of loyalty. It is (supposedly) to help promote discipline and loyalty. Remember, these are MARTIAL (read military in nature) arts. The whole concept is that you are a soldier in training. While it is not fully that anymore, it is the origin of what we do. BTW, do you find it coincidental that the US Military hires people to teach and train troops as well as encourages soldiers to study martial arts? It's not just for the hand to hand combat reinforcement. >Lord knows there's virtually NO quality control in these organizations, just >make sure you pay your dues and you can tack a few more letters to your >schools name. Woo hoo. Again, it depends ont he organization. I had the opportunity to interview Joe Lewis, the kick-boxing champion, last summer. He was talking about how he is concerned that any yahoo (my word, not his) can open a martial arts school and was trying to establish a board of people that would "police" the martial arts. Instructors could go in for training and certification, there would be a complaint/investigative division, etc. I got the impression that he would like the industry to start policing themselves before the government steps in and does it for them. My personal opinion of Mr. Lewis and kick-boxing aside, he is on to something. I do not see federations as evil any more than I see things like TV, video games or books as evil. It is what you do with what you learn. We all get to make our own decisions and choices. As Howard Stern says, "If you don't like what you're hearing,then just turn off the radio or change the stations." If you feel you are being fleeced or taken advantage of, there are mechanisms in place to help. (Look at what happened to the Chung Moo Do "empire") If you are a dojang owner and part of an organization that is not looking out for your interests, you can change to one that will or become independent. As much as we may see movies such as Karate Kid and Side Kicks as mind candy, there is something to the you don't need a school or affiliation to accomplish what you need or want to. Tang Soo! Karla ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:17:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:E-BOOKS HAVE FINALLY ARRIVED!!!! "WHISTLE" MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE! Thank you. I mentioned some time ago that I have been working on a project to produce E-books (electronic books) for purchase from my site. Well...ladies and gentlemen....the prototype is completed and ready for your review. So...please click on the link below to take you to my web site where you will find a new addition under the section "Jealously Guarded Secrets".....a brand spanking new original fiction piece about Chang Sam Bong (Chang San Feng) the founder of Tai Chi Chuan. Please take time to read the story and post your comments in the guestbook and here on the Digest. OK....here ya go: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/9536/ HAPPY READING!! :-D John Hancock Midnightblue Martial Arts ------------------------------ From: Richard Braun Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:07:14 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #1 > From: Greg Giddins > > Joes ITF,WTF,USTU, BUTF, MDK, SBD, TSD, TKD School. > You could nickname your school Alphabet Dojang. > > Lord knows there's virtually NO quality control in these > organizations, just make sure you pay your dues and you can tack a > few more letters to your schools name. Woo hoo. No quality control? Obviously you know nothing about the ATA. (Maybe you really don't know about the ATA - you didn't list us). ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 03:36:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: changing-cont Sorry , I forgot to add this to my earlier post >>>>>>>rrcma@earthlink.net Wrote: When a potential child student comes to me who is currently studying with another school my first question is, "Do you like your current instructor?" This relationship is extremely important for the overall experience of the child. If the answer is "yes" then I highly recommend to the parent that they stay with that school. >>>>>>>>>> Both Jason and I "Like" his old Grandmaster and Master - very much in fact (Christmas Card List etc.), but I Don't feel that they were giving their all for my son. Period. My Mother Had a Doctor She "Really Liked". He would sit and Chat with her etc. I however had Very Serious Doubts about his ability to adequetly diagnose and treat his patients. I was in Nursing School (so I wasn't completely ignorant) and I voiced my concerns to my Mother, but she "LIKED HIM", so she refused to find a new physician. You guessed it, she Died prematurely of what could have been a treatable condition. All things being equel, "Liking" someone may sway me but it Ain't gonna be the heaviest weighted factor in my decision. Eric ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 03:18:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Changing Schools rrcma@earthlink.net wrote: > > At 01:37 PM 12/30/98 -0500, you wrote: > > Eric > > [I recently Pulled my son from One Dojang, and enrolled him in another…The > Dojang he had been attending was the best I had found in the area …and he > recieved excellent instruction from a Wonderful Grandmaster…[but] Jason was > starting to stagnate.] > > (Please pardon the editing) I truly wish I could give you words of > encouragement here but I'm a bit perplexed. Please allow me to take the > point of view of a Sensei. When a potential child student comes to me who > is currently studying with another school my first question is, "Do you like > your current instructor?" This relationship is extremely important for the > overall experience of the child. If the answer is "yes" then I highly > recommend to the parent that they stay with that school. With that said, > it appears Jason's stagnation is the problem. > > [Jason enjoyed competing, [and] with the Grandmasters suggestion, We turned > to the Competive scene for > growth of Jason's skills.] > > Again, it looks like Jason's GM was taking an active roll in his progress. > > [While at these tournements I saw several "Tournemant Teams", and saw the > support, comraderie, and focused tournement training that Jason was missing.] > > This begs the question, "Was there little camaraderie at the old school?" > and "Wasn't sparring a focal point of the school?" > > [We started Jason at a Dojang….The GM was upset, but not angry..] > > Again, GM shows admiral qualities. > > [ Jason's old dojang was an excellent place for him to be introduced to > TKD, and the GM is a truly Kind man.] > > I don't envy your position, raising children is difficult to do, and it is > obvious that you take an active roll in your child's growth. Martial Arts > can also have a positive roll in a child's growth. The hopes are that by > exposing your child to Martial Art he/she have a good chance of becoming a > responsible adult with the admirable qualities of discipline, compassion and > loyalty. >> Yet I am perplexed at the message here. I'm concerned your child > may get the wrong message. That message being that his GM could only help > him in his development to a point, and at that point he could only offer > "empty promises" and frustration. I don't believe this is true, nor do I > believe you intended for this to be the case. >>> OK, Now it's my turn to be perplexed. You speak of "admirable qualities of DISCIPLINE, COMPASSION and LOYALTY", but by the tone of your words you seem to beleive that these attributes should be unilaterally practiced by the student. Confucian ethic dictates that these very fine attributes ('Sam-Gang' in Korean) Be practiced by both the Junior AND the Senior Parties. Jasons Master, through his repeated unfulfilled promises to my son to arrive and coach him at various tournaments (ie:LACK OF LOYALTY on thier part), and the GM's repeated Unfulfilled Promises to me to start a Tournament team (LACK of Self-DISCIPLINE on GM's part to put his words into action) Gave me the message that they were not WILLING to further his development, ie: the "development to a point" had been reached. As for COMPASSION, Niether were there When My then 7 yr old Year old Won the Gold and Silver (Sparring & Forms) at the State Junior Olympics, Black Belt Division (But they proudly displayed his medals). Neither One Heard my 8 year old son when he asked what tactic he could use against a 10yr old ("11yr old next month") who had 4" in height on him when they were sparring for Grand Champion. And Neither one Heard My Son, or saw his tears when he Said "They always SAY they will (come to my tournement) BUT they NEVER DO" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[Jason enjoyed competing, [and] with the Grandmasters suggestion, We turned to the Competive scene for growth of Jason's skills.] Again, it looks like Jason's GM was taking an active roll in his progress. [While at these tournements I saw several "Tournemant Teams", and saw the support, comraderie, and focused tournement training that Jason was missing.] >>>>>>>>>>>This begs the question, "Was there little camaraderie at the old school?" >>>>>>>>> ++ Lotsa Comraderie at the Old School, or rather IN the old Dojang... but when you go to tournements and your comrades don't show, it's Kinda hard to have Comraderie. and "Wasn't sparring a focal point of the school?" >>>>>>>>>>>Yes, they did spar Once a week. but if You re-read my origional post You will find that Jason Was LUCKY if he got to spar a child of Equal to Marginally greater skill (that would be the 10 yr old Black Belt). There were two 9 Year olds who were recently promoted to Black Belt, But they provided no challenge to Jason. Jason's GM said Jason needed to go to as many tournaments as possible for the exposure, experience and learning value - So I started taking Jason to Tournements. The problem was that neither the GM, his son (4th Dan), nor any other instructor ever came (save once) to a tournement - and as a result Jason had absolutely no feedback regarding his training, tactics, execution, warm-up, attitude, demeanor, techniques, skill, or stamina, Before, during or after the meets; Except what little I could provide. Jason was frustrated, and dissapointed, and verbalized feelings of rejection when the GM or his son didn't show after promising "I'll be there when you spar". This did not just happen once, this happened regularly. > >>>>>>>>>>> >>> I can only suggest having a heart to heart with the GM about the seriousness of your concerns,>>>> >>>>> Beleive me, after each Tournement I would ask the GM or his son "where were you?? what happened?" and I would just get a non-specific "oh we were busy" or Oh, I couldn't make it on time". I also spoke with both the GM and his son at least weekly for several months about the need for a tournement team, or at least an additional "Black Belt Class". Although I was the most vocal about these suggestions (GM, his son and I would speak daily about numerous topics) I was not the only parent calling for a Tourny team and/or Black Belt Class. Virtually all parents (and students) were enthusiastic about the Idea , and One parent even offered to "foot the Bill" for a tournament team...... -but action was never taken by the GM. >>>>>> heart to heart with your son about what good the old school has done for him.>>> Done that. Jason is thankful for his excellent introduction to TKD by the Old school. But ultimately Jason will have to decide for himself about loyalty. Both loyalty to Grandmaster by the student AND LOYALTY TO THE STUDENT BY THE GRANDMASTER. (In Korean, the Confucian Ethic "Sam-Gang Oh-Lryoon) Any Questions?? Eric ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 00:08:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Changing schools: a reply MissIllona@aol.com wrote: > And just because it is traditional doesn't make it recreational. I don't know > what you meant by that inferance. Maybe you could explain more why you think > that. My use of the term "recreational" was meant to describe the apparant Motivation of the (Majority of this Dojangs) students for Taking TKD, and the focus of the Curriculum was to promote an enjoyable activity - and Again I say there is nothing wrong with that, if that is all you want. An analogy which comes to mind is Flying. If you want to learn to fly, you must take flying lessons - Hopefully from a qualified and certified instructor. Now assuming that you have found such an instructor, have learned the basics (have attained Black Belt), and are certified (kukkiwon) you now must make some decisions. #1 - Do I wish to continue flying? #2 - Do I want to fly for Convenience/Recreation (single engine at current level of competance would be fine) #3 Do I want to fly for the "Art of Flying"? (I would need to find someone to teach me to fly a Glider) #4 Do I want to Fly for a Living (I would certainly need more advanced instruction on several Aircrafts and Ratings) #5 Do I want to Fly for Sport/Competition - (I would need to find an instructor who speicalized in racing). I hope the analogy is helps. Jasons old School did provide him with the Basics, but there was no specialized curriculum after the Balck Belt was attained; He was competant and skilled at "flying" but was only given the opportunity to "fly in circles". My son has indicated to me through actions and words that he is looking at TKD as a Competative sport for at least the near future, but ultimately as a Vocation. My son repeatedly states "When I Grow up I want to be a Grandmaster" and "I want an Olypic Gold Medal". For Exmple: Four Years ago (before Jason Started TKD) on Halloween he went Dressed as a "Ninja". 3 yrs ago He went as a TKD Orange Belt, 2Yrs ago He went as a TKD Brown Belt with 2 Gold Medals on, Last Year He went as a TKD Black Belt with gold medals. Each Year I suggest/remind him that Halloween is supposed to be a chance to Pretend to be something extraordinary; and Each Year he tells me that there is nothing more he would rather be than what he is - a Taekwondoin. > > I lose students to tournament schools, too> Any loss of a student is a loss of future learning opportunities for both you and your remaining students >..... but I will not change my school to fulfill others wishes that they may have> You make it sound as if change is Bad, I would argue that Stagnation is undesirable >.... not every school is for every person. I completely agree. > Good luck in the goals you have set for your son and I hope your son succeeds > in what he is looking for in the Martial Arts. Thank You Very Much Eric ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:48:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #1 > No quality control? Obviously you know nothing about the ATA. (Maybe you reall > don't know about the ATA - you didn't lis > it wasn't me that made the quality control comment, but do not think the ATA is to be left out. A good friend ran an ATA dojang for several years. - -- His experience wasn't all that positiv e. Ray ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:02:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #2 ****************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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