From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #14 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 11 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 014 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization the_dojang: Condolences the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #13 the_dojang: Re: Here Ye! Here Ye! Here Ye! the_dojang: Press release the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #12 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #13 the_dojang: RE: The DO, the truth, and the ??? the_dojang: Tragedy the_dojang: Us Open Trajedy the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jberwin@sc45.dseg.ti.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:34:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization >OK Mr. Sears...I will put you to the test on this. How can I...Master >John Hancock...join the ATA? Further....what will I obtain >from this membership? Will you actually allow me to come in...ask >questions...get answers...study your practices...examine your >forms? The ball is tossed back to you. This is an interesting question. With regarding consideration of the individual - it's easy to join ATA. Just find a local school, sign up, and you'll fit right in. At 4th Dan, you obviously have lots to offer, and have physical as well as instructional talent. You would likely be able to keep your rank - if not, be able to test for an ATA 4th Dan once you learn the curriculum up to that level. (Shouldn't take a serious person of that level too long.) Now, for the doozy. Are there any school owners out there that have X-ferred a school into a new organization? What was your process? What incentives did the org give you? How were you brought up to speed? To transfer a school - it must mean there are no local schools in that organization to compete with you. So your "new" organization contact/instructor would be some distance from you in location. How was this handled? Brett Erwin Allen, TX ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:33:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Condolences First of all I would like to say that it is a tragedy when we loose someone. It is also a tragedy when a athlete dies performing his/her sport. I have prayed for player and his family and I hope everyone could do the same according to their belief. >And thirdly, why hasn't the USTU and/or any of it's members adressed this issue? I know there are a few USTU officials within shouting distance... I am shocked and apalled that we were not greeted with a condolence post this morning as we read all our mail. Where are you guys? And where is your heart? A member lost his life. Is this not worth a word or two? There is no way you are all in the dark about this. Please tell me why I feel like the only persn in the world mourning this loss of life.< There have been postings from members of the USTU on another list, however, they have mostly been reports of the incidents more than anything else. Perhaps it has come to pass that we, as humans, do not feel the pain unless it directly effects us. We have numbed by the many deaths and violence around us that one more death is nothing new. It is a sad state of mind that we have reached when this happens. We don't have to grieve or cry for days when we hear it, but we should remember that it could have been us or one of our students or family member that this could happen to. Jeremy ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:06:05 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #13 > If you don't know anything about Amway, except what you've heard from someone > who heard from someone who's twice removed cousin's best friend's grandfather > was in it, then don't make the comparison. Then you are no better than what > you are arguing against. > Jeremy For the record: I have had an Amway dealership. I can't complain about their products...but I personally found no gain in their program. But I never professed to be any kind of a salesman either....and sales is the name of that game (whether it be selling the products or selling the distributorships). John Hancock ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:09:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Here Ye! Here Ye! Here Ye! Hello Digest members. I have an announcement. I just received word this morning that I will be appearing in the April 1999 issue of Black Belt Magazine. The article is titled, "Tang Soo Do Serendipity: The Forms of Peace and Confidence". I hope everyone will pick up a copy and feel free to post your comments on it on the Digest. Look for it to be on sale in mid February!! John Hancock ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:58:41 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Press release I recieved this in response to my previous post and wanted to send it along... ************************************************ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, January 11, 1999 Denmark Competitor Collapses at 1999 U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships ANAHEIM, CALIF. - Twenty-five year old Michael Richard Strube of Aalborg, Denmark passed away Saturday, January 9, 1999 at 8:20 p.m. Pacific Standard Time at the University of California Irvine Medical Center in Irvine, California. Strube was representing his country as a competitor at the 1999 U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships in Anaheim, California. He collapsed while competing in a match on January 9. Immediate medical attention was provided by United States Taekwondo Union Medical personnel and emergency medical personnel on site. He was rushed to the hospital where he later died. "We are deeply saddened by the death of Michael Strube. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and teammates," said United States Taekwondo Union Executive Director Jay Warwick. The 8th Annual U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships were held in Anaheim, California at the Anaheim Convention Center, January 7-9, 1999. Junior competition (17 years of age and under) was held on Friday, January 8 with the Senior competition taking place on Saturday, January 9. The annual tournament hosted approximately 900 competitors from 36 countries. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding. ~ They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:29:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #12 - --------------669914B3C5118D37F8C3101B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > From: Eduardo Miranda > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:41:10 -0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Re Mr Chuck Sears > > > I am really sorry about Mr. Sears, I've never meant to diminish ATA or > your Teakwondo. What you posted really differ from the others guys of > your organization, maybe I am assuming these opinions are ATA and not > from the person himself. I apologize if I've said something wrong. > Mr. Miranda, there was no offense taken on my part. I apologize if you got that impression from my post. Thanks for taking the time in reading it and letting me set the record straight.------------------------------ > > From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:23:14 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #11 > > ...snip... > > > ATA seems to get a lot of negative postings like the one I'm responding to, and they are from people who do not understand what we > > are about. Might I respectfully suggest that you join the organization and learn about it before you badmouth it? > > OK Mr. Sears...I will put you to the test on this. How can I...Master John Hancock...join the ATA? Further....what will I obtain from > this membership? Will you actually allow me to come in...ask questions...get answers...study your practices...examine your forms? The > ball is tossed back to you. > > John Hancock > 4th Dan, TSD And the ball is caught :-) The easiest way, since I don't know where you are located, would be to contact the ATA National Headquarters at 800-872-2821 (800-USA-ATA1). Tell them that you are interested in joining and what your background is. They will put you in contact with the nearest ATA regional officer to you. ATA has just put up a website; parts of it are under construction, but come visit it anyway at www.taekwondousa.com If you're in the Houston area, you are always welcome to come visit my school. I will be happy to tell you what I know and to give you the information on our regional officers. Our school's homepage is: West Houston Taekwondo USA Family Center > > > ------------------------------ > > From: Piotr Bernat > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:25:56 +0100 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #10 > > >When someone look for a martial art he is usually looking for tradition also, > >not only workout and self-defense. If you don't > >train wishing to reach a higher level as humam being you're not a martial > >artist, you a only a figther. If is that you guys are > >looking for (I sincerely doubt) you better stop using "DO" in your name, > >because this is a way to nowhere. > > What is a tradition in martial arts? Should we still use for example old > training methods because they have been used for years? Should we not be > allowed to > look for things supplementing our style because they are not a part of its > tradition? > I agree that we should look not only for physical fitness, but also for > spiritual development. But will adding some Eskrima practice to our Taekwondo > training destroy our spiritual development? I doubt so. To me, lack of respect > to each other, poorly organized tournaments, political wrangles in the art are > much more dangerous than adding weapons classes or ground fighting seminars to > our TKD. We are traditional because there is a mutual respect between student > and teachers, we still do classical patterns, be it Chon Ji, SongAhm or > Taegeuk, we wear our doboks, but we are human beings and we > just can`t say "don`t learn this because it`s not a part of Taekwondo > tradition". My school host seminars for Hapkido and Aikido, I use Eskrima > drills during classes since I feel they are great for coordination, though > being WTF affiliated we still enter ITF styled or open tournaments. And we are > still Taekwondo students... > Well stated, Mr. Bernat. Far too often, people tend to look at martial arts styles like religions. Catholics knock heads with Fundamentalists, Baptists lock horns with the Witnesses, etc. Both sides lose sight of the fact that it's just a different path to a common goal. - ------------------------------ > > From: > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:00:40 EST > Subject: the_dojang: Re: ATA/Kukkiwon connection > > Mr. Miranda: > > In the last issue of Taekwondo Times, GM Lee stated the ATA has no > relationship with the WTF but has a relationship with the Kukkiwon. This was > not explained in the article. Could you explain this? I do not have the > article in front of me, but recall that GM Lee has set up an organization in > Korea to help Korean instructors with running a business. > I'm not really sure what the relationship is. I do know that when GM Lee was promoted to 9th degree, there were representatives, Masters and Grand Masters from a variety of Taekwondo styles and other martial arts present at his testing. Perhaps all it means is that the Kukkiwon recognizes our belt ranks. You might visit the ATA home page at www.taekwondousa.com and post a message to them for clarification. > > > > ------------------------------ > > From: "Graham Hills" > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:04:37 +0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Too controlled in kicks > > I am hoping someone on the list can suggest some drills to help a student. > The student does all her techniques very well except that their is no > explosive force in them. They are performed as if they were dance moves. I > have tried many things and am unable to change this manner. > > Any input will be most welcome. > IMHO, board breaks are still the best. Start with an ordinary sheet of paper and have her "break" it with a side kick. It's harder than you think :-). Work up to a small board, then a large one. Concentrate on the foot and hand timing on hand breaks. One of my favorite drills is to put an air shield on the floor behind me, then stand in a middle stance holding an air shield in front of my stomach. The students have to drill me (in the air shield, of course ) with a side kick with enough power to knock me back onto the bag on the floor. If they don't get the focus and the power, I can recover from the kick fast enough to keep on my feet. - --------------669914B3C5118D37F8C3101B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [140 lines deleted. Please do not send HTML to the list. ] on the floor.  If they don't get the focus and the power, I can recover from the kick fast enough to keep on my feet. - --------------669914B3C5118D37F8C3101B-- ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #13 > > > From: Greg Giddins > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:02:24 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: Tragedy > > For thse of you that haven't heard already... > > The US Open tournament this weekend was visited by tragedy. One of the > competitors from Denmark (I believe) lost his life due to injuries sustained > in the ring. > > First off, I ask that those feeling comfortable to do so offer a moment of > prayer for the family of the boy, as they are undoubtedly in for a long, > difficult road ahead. > > Then I would hope that we could all take another moment to reflect on the > ideas of control, risk, and our destructive (and potentially fatal) > potential. > > And thirdly, why hasn't the USTU and/or any of it's members adressed this > issue? I know there are a few USTU officials within shouting distance... > I am shocked and apalled that we were not greeted with a condolence post > this morning as we read all our mail. > > Where are you guys? And where is your heart? A member lost his life. Is > this not worth a word or two? There is no way you are all in the dark about > this. Please tell me why I feel like the only persn in the world mourning > this loss of life. Actually, I hadn't heard. Could someone post details, please? > ------------------------------ > > From: > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:58:40 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: Know what you are talking about > > >To re-explain the seniority fees that led to the Amway crack about > pyramid schemes - please go back and re-read the original post. > Seniority fees are paid to the instructor who taught you how to be an > instructor, no one else. Amway has a kickback scheme where > you get credits for people developed by people developed by people > that you developed; ATA doesn't....Might I respectfully suggest that > you join the organization and learn about it before you badmouth it?< > > I would agree 100%. So let's go one step further. If you don't know > anything about Amway, except what you've heard from someone who heard > from someone who's twice removed cousin's best friend's grandfather > was in it, then don't make the comparison. Then you are no better > than what you are arguing against. > > > Jeremy Good point, Jeremy. Since I sold Amway products for four years, I feel that I do know what I'm talking about. ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:29:32 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The DO, the truth, and the ??? > From: "John Bennett" > Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:42:34 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: fighter vs. artist > > Eduardo Miranda wrote: "If you don't train wishing to reach a higher > level as humam being you're not a martial artist, you a only a > figther." > > I don't want to be an artist. > > I train to be an effective fighter. > > I go to church to learn how to become a better person. > > Is that wrong? > > > Not in my book, but aren't MA and religion each ways to search for truth? And aren't there many ways to become a better person? Kerry ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:38:19 EST Subject: the_dojang: Tragedy In a message dated 1/11/99 2:22:51 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Where are you guys? And where is your heart? A member lost his life. Is this not worth a word or two? There is no way you are all in the dark about this. Please tell me why I feel like the only person in the world mourning this loss of life. >> What happened was the most horrible thing that could ever happen in any sport. What would make this even a greater tragedy is if we in the martial arts community can't pull together to help each and every one of us cope with what happened. I truly understand that you are angry and scared and upset. I know because I am too - and so is everyone I have spoken with since the incident. But we have to remember that it is our whole community that is suffering. Imagine how the people literally in the ring feel. I can't. I would be wondering if I could have done something to stop it. Imagine how the children and spectators feel knowing that they literally watched a good young man die in front of their eyes. Imagine how the people involved with the tournament feel - knowing that nothing they could have done would have changed a thing. It was an accident, a freak accident. It happens - it happens in every other sport and unfortunately it happened to us. The USTU officers have had to deal with their fears, this is their worst nightmare. But being TKD, we all also know that no matter how much they want to cry out, and console and all that, they have to follow procedures that make sure everything is done right. We thrive on chain of command. They have to do what is best for the whole country, and not a limited few on the net. Some of those same officers you are criticizing are sitting in Anaheim even as I write, helping make arrangements to ship home a 25 year old man, Michael Stube, to his family - people who laughed and waved good-bye to him just a few days ago, never knowing that they would never see him again. You are right to be angry - It's not right and it's not fair- but don't displace that anger. Don't turn this into a greater tragedy. We need to stand and support everyone - whether or not they were there, whether or not they knew him, whether or not you are a USTU member. He was/could have been anyone's child, anyone's student - or even the guy next to you in line drills. I did ask the USTU if there is an address for people to send cards. I was told that if u send them to the USTU, they will forward them to the Danish Team. I think this is a nice gesture to show the Danish Team that we are all family in TKD. Thank You Ronda J. Sweet ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:20:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Us Open Trajedy I Lifted the Following from LadyTKD's "Rumors Innuendo & Speculation". I did not see any mention of inadaquate on-site medical personnel/equipment. I do not wish to sully the memory of this World class athelete, Therefore I will address my personal experiances/ concerns regarding on site medical care on future posts. Eric ______________________________________________________________________ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, January 11, 1999 Denmark Competitor Collapses at 1999 U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships ANAHEIM, CALIF. - Twenty-five year old Michael Richard Strube of Aalborg, Denmark passed away Saturday, January 9, 1999 at 8:20 p.m. Pacific Standard Time at the University of California Irvine Medical Center in Irvine, California. Strube was representing his country as a competitor at the 1999 U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships in Anaheim, California. He collapsed while competing in a match on January 9. Immediate medical attention was provided by United States Taekwondo Union Medical personnel and emergency medical personnel on site. He was rushed to the hospital where he later died. " We are deeply saddened by the death of Michael Strube. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and teammates," said United States Taekwondo Union Executive Director Jay Warwick. The 8th Annual U.S. Open Taekwondo Championships were held in Anaheim, California at the Anaheim Convention Center, January 7-9, 1999. Junior competition (17 years of age and under) was held on Friday, January 8 with the Senior competition taking place on Saturday, January 9. The annual tournament hosted approximately 900 competitors from 36 countries. 11/11/99 Many, many people have asked me if there is an address where condolence cards may be sent to the Danish Team, the Schools and the Family. At present, the USTU has said that if you mail them to the USTU they will forward them to the appropriate people. You might want to mark the outside of the envelope for them to please forward it to the Danish Team to avoid them accidentally opening the envelope. It would be a nice gesture; this is a terrible loss to the world TKD community. Sources say that everything that could possibly be done was done and that all necessary equipment was at the scene. Sources also claim it was just a freak hit, and nothing would have made a difference.. Master John Holloway gave a moving speech at the awards ceremony. He spoke of the support we need to give each other. Accidents happen, but that doesn't lesson the shock value. We need to pull together as a TKD community and support each other. There are no words....... ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:44:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #14 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.