From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #17 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 12 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 017 In this issue: the_dojang: WTF tournament death the_dojang: Re: Kuk Sool Sparring Competition the_dojang: details the_dojang: The "OTHER" Guy. the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization the_dojang: Mace, Pepper Spray, ETC the_dojang: Attacks the_dojang: Tribute to all athletes the_dojang: Re: US Open the_dojang: hapkido in mittens?:) the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steffen Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:14:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: WTF tournament death Allow me to ammend my previous comments: > From: David Steffen > This is AFAIK one of the continuing criticisms of Olympic TKD. At > least, it's one of _my_ criticisms. It sounds like my criticism is, in this case, not entirely fair. Apparently the death was a freak accident, caused by the way he hit the floor, which can happen in _any_ kind of tournament, full-contact or otherwise. I don't know of any deaths of this nature in non-WTF competition, but I'm sure they've happened. My GM's tournaments out on the East Coast have gone to mandatory (or almost mandatory) headgear. And even this isn't foolproof - I heard of a guy who just slipped, and happened to land on his face, crushing a cheekbone. The headgear was irrelevant. Of course, my feelings go out to the competitor and his family. And it is a good reminder for the rest of us: we must always bear in mind that the martial arts are in no way, shape, or form a zero-risk endeavor. Ray Terry wrote, in response to my response: > But what would you have the USTU do? Think about it. Today is > Monday. The US Open was Thursday/Friday/Saturday. Given the > tragedy, don't you think the USTU officials are just a little bit > too busy right now to send e-mail to this list, other lists, > rec.martial-arts, rec.m-a.m, etc? It isn't like there are dozens > of USTU officials after all. Sorry, I should have been clearer. Of course, the USTU has better things to do than tell us about it. I'd be surprised if they even know about 'net lists. I was agreeing with the original post's statement of the tragedy, not the lack of USTU notice given to the_Dojang. I should have edited more clearly. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:37:59 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Kuk Sool Sparring Competition >Does someone in this list is a Kuk Sool stylist? I've read in a mag >about a Kuk Sool sparring competition, there isn't Kuk Sool in Brazil >and I got curious about how can a such comprehensive art have sparring >competition. Any one could tell me the rules of these competition? Are >kicks, punches, throws and joint locks aloud? > Eduardo: (1) Yes, there are (or were, at one point) several Kuk Sool Won people on this list. I am one of them. (2) True, Kuk Sool Won is not presently taught in Brazil, to my knowledge. Nearest locale with Kuk Sool Won is Venezuela, for what its worth. (3) On my school's website, there is a copy of the World Kuk Sool Association Standard Tournament Rules. The direct URL is http://lonestar.texas.net/~yudanja/stdrules.html There are several levels, or types, of Kuk Sool Won sparring. The type used for tournament competition requires hand, foot, and head protective gear, and basically limits the competitors to using only hand and foot strikes, i.e., throws, grappling, joint-locking, pressure-point manipulation, as well as strikes executed with other than the hands and feet are all illegal. In addition, only the front and sides of the body from the waist up, minus the back and top of the head, are legal targets. Finally, the degree of force used is tightly regulated (e.g., cannot draw blood, cause "trembling shock", leave a "red mark" on the skin, etc.). As you will see from the website, sparring is only one avenue of competiton in Kuk Sool Won tournaments: the others are form (empty-hand), form (weapon), self-defense, breaking, technique, and demonstration. Hope this is what you wanted to know. Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:02:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: details In a message dated 1/12/99 12:03:52 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << i heard that he is a korean national and that he felt awful in spite of the fact that it wasnt his fault. it was a freak occurrence. for those of you who dont know, michael strube took a turning back kick just under the chin and apparently fell and struck the floor at such an angle that the fall, >> there is a lot of information like this coming out of the tournament - and a lot of it wrong. While I choose not to say who the competitor was as it makes no difference - he was not a Korean national, he is just some poor soul who has to live with this for the rest of his life.. He was pulled form the floor immediately. It was a spinning heel hook kick, but as for the striking the floor and all - there is a lot of video evidence which says otherwise. let's wait for the reports - it really makes no difference. A young man is dead and we need to support his teammates, family, etc..... ------------------------------ From: "Jeremy C. Bays" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:17:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: The "OTHER" Guy. In regards to the tragic message from the USTU, I believe that our thoughts and prayers should go out to the "other" guy. I know that I would feel sick knowing that I caused someone's death. The mental and emotional pain that this person has to carry can be rough. Thanks. Jeremy C. Bays ------------------------------ From: jberwin@sc45.dseg.ti.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:11:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization >We recently (1994) rejoined the ITF after many, many years away from >the organization -... >The process involved:... >Does that answer your question? Yes it does. But I guess it spawns a couple more minor ones. 1) Who was involved with the decision to go back to ITF (school owner, all instructors, school vote?) 2) How did students do during transition? "You mean we gotta learn a NEW form before we test? We just learned one!" 3) Because of #2, how did parents of students react to the transition? Were they supportive, tentative, negative? Probably some of each, I'm sure. When I was a freshman at Auburn University in '89 (WAR EAGLE!!!) I joined a TKD school 1 month after they joined ATA. They were previously independant. I was a mighty 3rd Gup at the time. :) As the story goes, an ATA certified instructor, who was also at Auburn, stopped in to visit the instructor and seeing that they were independant, told him about ATA. The instructor took a look at ATA's Instructor manual and said "Wow!" The ATA instuctor showed him a few forms and the school owner was mezmerized. It helped that the ATA guy was a fabulous technician. The ATA guy hooked him up with a higher ranked instructor in nearby Montgomery, AL where he had a few more meetings and workouts. He then held a school meeting where he gave a presentation to the students and parents about ATA and got their opinions. It was virtually unanimous that they join. Over the next few weeks, he (and his main assistant instructor) travelled to Montgomery during the mid-day and weekends to learn the ATA curriculum. Over time, it was all gradually introduced to his students. - - Brett Erwin Allen, TX ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:40:01 PST Subject: the_dojang: Mace, Pepper Spray, ETC I was just doing an email chat with a friend of mine and he raised a question which is: What if you are into security or law enforcement or perhaps just a layperson and you were in a situation where you might encounter someone that would use mace or pepper spray or some other aerosol on you. Is there any preventive measures or equipment that you could use other than the after-the-fact first aid and decontamination procedures. Jamaica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:06:17 PST Subject: the_dojang: Attacks In the real world, not the dojang or tournaments, is there a "most likely," attack/sitaution; or perhaps what attack occurs most often on the streets involving day to day folk and innocent bystanders. Is there one attack that law enforcement/security officers continually run into that could be avoided with some awareness or training? Jamaica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:27:41 PST Subject: the_dojang: Tribute to all athletes This is a tribute to all athletes but today to all competitors. To each of you that embraces the competitive aspect of martial arts sports and that desire to extend yourself one more step forward toward excellence I compliment you on your courage, strength, and perseverence and join with you today in sharing the loss of a family member. I grieve with you and his family and hope you will all continue in your training to inspire and touch us all with your achievements and contributions to martial arts. Jamaica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Sanner" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:05 PST Subject: the_dojang: Re: US Open <>> I did not know about this, and I am shocked. I started training a few months ago and yet did not know that TKD could kill. It is frightening, and this is probably why my instructor told us to mind the contacts during sparring. This is a sad day :( Stephan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Tom Marker Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:51:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: hapkido in mittens?:) being as it's a cold and icy winter thus far here in Ohio, I was thinking on the way home last night about how ineffective my training would work in these conditions.. With about 8 inches of snow on the ground, and very few walkways cleared off (this means a nice slippery surface we midwesterners call 'ice') a confrontation could be interesting. Yes they'd be facing the same handicap (unless they straped crampons to their boots) but I think it would definetely be ugly. Since kicking appears to be out of the question, I considered using some sort of grappling techniques, or at the least short fast hand techniques. My question is, has anyone had the pleasure of taking a class outside in regular winter gear and trying to spar???:) I noticed that it would be damned hard to do much grappling when wearing gloves, and that access to my knife is limited by having to paw for the blade in thick gloves. I think it would be an interesting drill, and that improvisation would definetely be called for. At the very least, go over falling with your students before they twist their ankles outdoors.. nothing like doing a breakfall on a busy sidewalk to get attention. :) Tang Soo!!! - -- Tom Marker Buckeye Tang Soo Do at Ohio State University (WTSDA) tom@enc.org - -- ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:17:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #17 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.