From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #18 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 12 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 018 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: the_dojang Re: Joining new organization the_dojang: Re: circumstances regarding death/anonymous posts the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization the_dojang: fighter vs. artist/David Steffen the_dojang: Re: Too controlled in kicks Re: the_dojang: Re: circumstances regarding death/anonymous posts the_dojang: Re:Hapkido in mittens the_dojang: Re Steven Gilmore the_dojang: Re:Hapkido in Mittens...it's not just for Kittens!!! the_dojang: Stepping up and taking charge the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John C. Leylegian" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:07:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: the_dojang Re: Joining new organization > From: jberwin@sc45.dseg.ti.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) > Now, for the doozy. Are there any school owners out there that have > X-ferred a school into a new organization? What was your process? > What incentives did the org give you? How were you brought up to > speed? To transfer a school - it must mean there are no local schools > in that organization to compete with you. So your "new" organization > contact/instructor would be some distance from you in location. How > was this handled? In the spring of 1997 I joined the World Tae Kwon Do Association (WTKDA). My old school had been affiliated with a WTKDA spinoff group (World Martial Arts Association), and I had parted ways with them for various reasons. My 1st dan, earned in the spring of 1995, was from the WMAA, and I had never been affiliated with the WTKDA. I did realize, however, that for me to continue in my TKD training I would have to train under a new instructor. In addition, the affiliation would guarantee that their rank would have credibility and would be accepted in other schools. Those were the main incentives for me. I contacted some WTKDA members I had met over the internet years before and asked them how to proceed. They suggested that I visit Grandmaster Son, Duk Sung, the WTKDA president. After talking with him for about 15 or 20 minutes about my training history, he agreed to accept my club in the organization. Since my old organization and the WTKDA were so similar, there weren't sweeping changes that needed to be done. My students' ranks were automatically transferred. However, I was brought in as a brown belt and successfully tested for my 1st dan about ten months after I started. The school at which I receive my instruction is not that close, about an hour by car from where I live/work. I make it to class there almost every week, and get a practice in with Gransmaster Son in New York City about once a month. Between that and the 2-3 classes a week that I teach I get plenty of training time (20-25 hours of class time per month), considering that I'm still in graduate school. John Leylegian Yonkers, New York, USA Princeton, New Jersey, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:45:14 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: circumstances regarding death/anonymous posts In a message dated 1/12/99 2:18:50 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:02:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: details In a message dated 1/12/99 12:03:52 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << i heard that he is a korean national and that he felt awful in spite of the fact that it wasnt his fault. it was a freak occurrence. for those of you who dont know, michael strube took a turning back kick just under the chin and apparently fell and struck the floor at such an angle that the fall, >> there is a lot of information like this coming out of the tournament - and a lot of it wrong. While I choose not to say who the competitor was as it makes no difference - he was not a Korean national, he is just some poor soul who has to live with this for the rest of his life.. He was pulled form the floor immediately. It was a spinning heel hook kick, but as for the striking the floor and all - there is a lot of video evidence which says otherwise. let's wait for the reports - it really makes no difference. A young man is dead and we need to support his teammates, family, etc..... >> i would appreciate it if my fellow members on this list would please sign their posts so we know to whom we should speak in response. apparently, this list has a problem in that occasionally the name of the person who posted is not listed. ray is trying to solve this problem, but in the meantime please take that into consideration when posting. thanks alot! :) melinda ------------------------------ From: David Steffen Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:46:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Joining new organization > From: jberwin@sc45.dseg.ti.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) > > >We recently (1994) rejoined the ITF after many, many years away from > >the organization -... > > >The process involved:... > > >Does that answer your question? > > Yes it does. But I guess it spawns a couple more minor ones. > 1) Who was involved with the decision to go back to ITF > (school owner, all instructors, school vote?) Technically, it was Mr. Rhone's decision. However, he consulted with me and his other high ranks before me made the move. Actually it's more complicated than that. Toward the end of our time in the WTF, relations between us and our WTF master had deteriorated considerably. I had given up on him completely long before Mr. Rhone decided to terminate the relationship. When he _did_ decide that we were leaving the WTF, my response was "finally". The other high ranks felt the same way. It was actually a fellow student who found out about GM Hwang and his organization, KATU - he saw an ad in TKD Times, and brought it to Mr. Rhone's attention. After discussing it we wrote GM Hwang a letter, and things began rolling from there. I should point out that we were in a 'club' atmosphere, with just a few students (10-20) and very low overhead, so there was little 'business' involved in the decision. > 2) How did students do during transition? > "You mean we gotta learn a NEW form before we test? > We just learned one!" Well, we were going back to where we came from, so it wasn't a matter of learning the 'new' forms, we already knew them (more-or-less). In fact, we were happy to drop the Tae-Geuk forms from our curriculum - we never liked them very much. However, there was a _long_ period of adjustment while we assimilated all the changes made to the forms since we left the ITF in 1981. That was kind of rough, and we're still working on the black belt forms. > 3) Because of #2, how did parents of students react to the > transition? Were they supportive, tentative, negative? > Probably some of each, I'm sure. In general, people don't question Mr. Rhone's decisions about martial arts. His skill is so overwhelming that if he says "we're going to do the forms _this_ way from now on" most people just tend to agree with him. ;-) [SNIP] > virtually unanimous that they join. Over the next few weeks, he > (and his main assistant instructor) travelled to Montgomery during the > mid-day and weekends to learn the ATA curriculum. Over time, it was > all gradually introduced to his students. Yeah, that's kind of what we did. In our case, though, Mr. Rhone and I did a lot of traveling so we could attend seminars with GM Hwang and get this 'sine wave' thing figured out. We are very happy about being back in the ITF. Because of our affiliation with GM Hwang, we can largely avoid most of the politics that go on in the US. We've met and had dinner with General Choi on a few memorable occasions, and Mr. Rhone and my assistant instructor Danny Alberts travelled to New Delhi a few months ago as assistant coaches for the Jr. National Team... it's amazing how much our situation has improved. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: fighter vs. artist/David Steffen Mr. Steffen, WOW, I have to applaud you for your insight and ability to put into words what I have been thinking for so long! I am sure that instructors wrestle with the appearance of demanding respect, and the reality of respecting the art, the dojang, the effort, work, tradition, etc. that are behind every thing that happens in the dojang. I have often thought that students who do not show proper respect for others, especially those of higher rank, are themselves working through a RANK system that they apparently do not fully believe in! That they are, perhaps, hoping one day to achieve a certain rank, only to find that their own actions along the way have somehow minimized achieving that rank! It is a hard balance, but respect and discipline go with the hard physical work of any martial art. Remember the Um-Yang (Ying-Yang)? Can't really have one without the other! In the spirit of TKD... Mark Lasich. ------------------------------ From: "SylverEyes, Perky Death Goddess of Alternate Reality(Crackland)" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:15:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Too controlled in kicks >I am hoping someone on the list can suggest some drills to help a student. >The student does all her techniques very well except that their is no explosive force >in them. They are performed as if they were dance moves. I have tried many things and >am unable to change this manner. What belt is she in? I can't really suggest anything, since I'm not really in a position to. But I do know that sometimes if you try to hard to correct dance-move like techniques it will probably backfire. When I was a yellow belt or yellow stripe, I don't remember, I really had no idea what the hell I was doing. I didn't exactly have the concept of using power and Ki-Y(H?)apping. I mean my instructor noticed that my techniques were pretty much lightweight and I only Ki-yapped when he asked me too and I didn't really understand the whole importance of it, but one day my instructor just kept picking on me and it was just a really bad class because he knew I was doing something wrong, I knew I was doing something wrong but there wasn't really any way to just correct it on the spot. So basically all he accomplished by that was making me freak out and become rather neurotic. Then another black belt was teaching for the next while and he was a really good teacher and showed me what was wrong with the techniques, and so I got those done right. Then gradually I guess things just clicked. It doesn't really matter what belt you're in because sometimes it just takes longer for someone to develop that power... think of it as being blocked somewhere in the body... and then gradually the blockage is worn down until it's completely gone and it's a free circulation of energy. You improve. All I suggest is give her time. Sometimes it's all it takes. syl, rambling on and on... ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:55:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: circumstances regarding death/anonymous posts > i would appreciate it if my fellow members on this list would please sign > their posts so we know to whom we should speak in response. apparently, this > list has a problem in that occasionally the name of the person who posted is > not listed. ray is trying to solve this problem, but in the meantime please > take that into consideration when posting. thanks alot! :) > > melinda Everyone's sig should contain their e-mail address for that very same reason. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: dragon102@juno.com (Aaron J Woodburn) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:53:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re:Hapkido in mittens Tom Marker wrote: being as it's a cold and icy winter thus far here in Ohio, I was thinking on the way home last night about how ineffective my training would work in these conditions.. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Analyze the situation that you are fighting in; slippery ground leads to a fall is the most plausible scenario. The solution is simple once you eliminate the complex superficial conditions: lower your center of gravity, simply put, ground fighting My Kwon Chang Nim (Master) drills us heavily in Ho Sin Sul (Self Defense) and concentrates on ground fighting heavily also. Keep your opponent away with your raised foot while the other leg keeps him in front. go for the knees and lockup his hips the first chance you get. Dont think I'm telling you to just drop if youre fighting on ice, take him out upright if possible, but I would be stronger on the ground. knowing how to fall is good too. - -AJ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Eduardo Miranda Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:16:21 -0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re Steven Gilmore > As you will see from the website, sparring is only one avenue of competiton > in Kuk Sool Won tournaments: the others are form (empty-hand), form > (weapon), self-defense, breaking, technique, and demonstration. > Thank you very much Mr. Steven, I will take a look at your web-site. About others competition avenue I really enjoy that. The lack of categories such form and breaking at WTF competition is something that bother me. ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:29:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Hapkido in Mittens...it's not just for Kittens!!! OK Mr. Marker....I'll take up the challenge. So here's the scenario as I understand it. Snow and ice covered ground, thick cumbersome clothing and gloved hands. Well...first and formost...you probably won't get attacked in this situation for one reason only. Criminals don't work in adverse conditions (hell...they won't hardly work in ideal conditions). But....if you should find yourself outside a bar (cause alcohol makes people stupid) and you get threatened with an assault (hey...it could happen) then might I point out that grappling will work. I personally favor the head lock that I work into a vascular restraint. If you are indeed on ice...widen your stance and let him come to you. Try to push down of the back of his neck as he comes in. If you can do it right...he should end up face first in the ice and you might just still be standing. Then you can either beat a hasty retreat (look for an escape route that has unpacked snow..it will provide traction...unless of course it is a six foot drift) or you can land on top of the assailant and work some magic in the form of a choke hold. Well...that's my suggestion. Arm locks and leg locks will still work to a degree even when you are bundled up so....and keep in mind....all that padding will at least protect your vitals unless he has a weapon (which if he is robbing you....he will have...so you are screwed. Try asking if you can write him a check.). John Hancock Tang Soo Do ( and we call it Ho Shin Sool...not Hapkido). ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:03:57 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Stepping up and taking charge Something happened in our adult class yesterday that kind of leaves me wondering... One of our bluebelts blew out his knee while sparring, and the instructor and I ran over and started giving him attention. Now, there were about 15 other people in class, 4 were blackbelts. And all the sudden everyone just started standing around. Two of the 4 blackbelts are assistant instructors, but none of them stepped up and took charge of the class. When I noticed what was happening I stepped in and got the class rolling again, as the bluebelt was in good hands and not in any danger. But I was a little shocked at the lack of initiative shown by the other blackbelts. I am new to this dojang, and didn't feel exrtemly comfortable jumping in and taking over, but there seemed to be no other choice, so I went ahead and ran the class for the rest of the evening. This raises a question: How many schools have blackbelts that wouldn't feel comfortable jumping in and finishing class? I always thought that a major part of getting your blackbelt had to do with initiative and developing a sesne of responsibility, for reasons just like I faced last night. I would think having your blackbelts capable of running things when a crisis occurs would be almost crucial to the day to day life of a dojang. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding. ~ They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #18 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.