From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #19 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 13 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 019 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #18 the_dojang: ATA / Kukkiwon the_dojang: the history / tradition / self-actualization thing BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Gregg London (fwd) BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Jana Lise" (fwd) the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:12:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #18 In a message dated 1/12/99 6:58:45 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << << i heard that he is a korean national and that he felt awful in spite of the fact that it wasnt his fault. it was a freak occurrence. for those of you who dont know, michael strube took a turning back kick just under the chin and apparently fell and struck the floor at such an angle that the fall, >> there is a lot of information like this coming out of the tournament - and a lot of it wrong. While I choose not to say who the competitor was as it makes no difference - he was not a Korean national, he is just some poor soul who has to live with this for the rest of his life.. He was pulled form the floor immediately. It was a spinning heel hook kick, but as for the striking the floor and all - there is a lot of video evidence which says otherwise. let's wait for the reports - it really makes no difference. A young man is dead and we need to support his teammates, family, etc..... >> i would appreciate it if my fellow members on this list would please sign their posts so we know to whom we should speak in response. apparently, this list has a problem in that occasionally the name of the person who posted is not listed. ray is trying to solve this problem, but in the meantime please take that into consideration when posting. thanks alot! :) melinda >> Sorry I forgot - it was very early in the am when i made my post - Ronda J. Sweet LadyTKD@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:24:52 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: ATA / Kukkiwon I remember that article. If memory serves me, the ATA has an agreement wherein an ATA BB can get Kukkiwon certification. ATA BB's were advised to contact ATA headquarters about it. My understaning was that ATAHQ would handle the paperwork if a person really felt they needed it but the individual would have to pay the Kukkiwon fees. Again, this was just my understanding of it. John Bennett ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:17:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: the history / tradition / self-actualization thing David Steffen wrote: "...you're ignoring, or at least missing, a large chunk of what the martial arts _should_ (IMHO) be about." Whew! That was quite an essay Mr. Steffen! I thank you for it. There were some ideas in there that I had not previously considered. One thing I realized as a result of your post was that I dislike lower ranks calling me "sir" and "Mr. Bennett" somewhat due to laziness on my part. i.e. I don't want to have to constantly live up to their exaggerated expectations. My main reason for this had been because it seems pretentious. I've often seen MA's who deserved the least respect demand the most. Still, I think the "history / tradition / self-actualization thing" to often becomes an end itself. Perhaps you've met the guy who can tell you intimate details of the 16th century Hung dynasty fighting court barbers and knows all 135 fire meridian intersections but couldn't slip a right cross to save his life. These are the guys who most often seem to expound the spiritual and artistic benefits of training. I agree that instructors have a responsibility not to teach people who can't control their ego or temper. I disagree that a lack of formality and tradition inevitably results in more injuries and sexual harassment. I also don't believe that formality and tradition prevent these things. If an instructor is inclined to abuse his position, the rigid acceptance of the instructor's authority and lack of open, honest dialog among the students that formality and tradition promulgate can often actually enable such abuse. I guess I more like the "authoritative" instructor as described in Jeff's post. Just like most things in life, I think there is a happy medium somewhere in there. I guess that's why I dislike people who gravitate toward the extremes, be they Oliver North or Al Sharpton. John Bennett ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:00:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Gregg London (fwd) Forwarding. You are subscribed as gregg@glondon.com. Please correct. Ray - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Gregg London ] Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:13:44 -0500 From: Gregg London Organization: Gregg London Consulting Subject: Tragedy at the Open In any tragedy sometimes the real issues are overlooked. Usually focus is shifted away from what matters to those few who are desirous to: 1) harp on details, 2) present added facts (whether substantiated or not), and 3) place blame. The reality of what happened in Anaheim is that a talented young man lost his life due to a tragic accident. At a time when we in the TKD community should be coming together-should be extending support to one another-should be praying for broken families-and should be sharing condolences, we have chosen to use forums such as the Dojang Digest for wild speculation and blame. This has got to end. Now. Unless you were there, sitting as we were, fifteen feet from the ring, you have no right to speculate on what WE SAW. You have no right to pass along, as fact, comments that a friend of a friend heard. And you have no right to blame anyone. John Holloway spoke of "family" in his speech at Closing Ceremonies. Greg Giddins, a frequent contributor spoke of "community". Do you think some of what we have read lately is benefitting our family or our TKD community? I think not. For Bonnie and I, this was a very personal tragedy. You can see why at: http://www.glondon.com/tragedy.html There are seasons we go through in life. We in the Taekwondo community are in a season of healing. Our "family" needs comfort and support, nothing more. Respectfully, Gregg London - -- Gregg London Consulting Internet/Notes Development http://www.glondon.com Corporate/Trade Show Magic 301-515-1724 Tournament Automation Services ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:26:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Jana Lise" (fwd) Forwarding. Jana, are you subscribed to the_dojang? I can't tell. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:43:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901130443.XAA07643@hpwsrt> To: the_dojang-owner Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Jana Lise" ] From: "Jana Lise" To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #16 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:38:21 PST > I don't want to be an artist. > > I train to be an effective fighter. > > I go to church to learn how to become a better person. > > Is that wrong? No, not necessarily. I understand what you mean; I joined TSD for the same reason. But after training about three years I came to understand that there's more to the art than just the technique I practice in the dojang. Also having a very strong religious background, I started to notice, as I became more involved in TSD, a certain 'Spiritual' element. I'm not saying that this is bad in any way, but I wouldn't leave my religion and follow it. I think the adage "Everything in moderation" could be applied here. I also understand about respect being essential to martial arts, including TSD, and the effects of disrespect both for others and for the art itself. However, one doesn't -have- to receive the knowledge of how to be a better person from that 'spiritual' element. It varies according to the person. And don't be shocked if you become an artist on your way to becoming an effective fighter. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:15:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #19 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.