From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #23 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 14 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 023 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: State-of-Our-Art the_dojang: details the_dojang: Re: "Exaggerated expectations" the_dojang: A freak accident? the_dojang: Re: Ray's comments + TKD sparring the_dojang: Re: hapkido in mittens the_dojang: Re: Stepping up.... the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:14:10 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: State-of-Our-Art I do not want to dabble in morbid curiosity by asking for further detail as to the death at the US Open. I do think, however, that calling it an "accident" when it was an opponent's kick which precipitated it is disingenuous. Even if it was the contact with the floor which was the direct cause, that contact would not have occurred but for the kick. Having said that, on to constructive suggestions. I teach a full contact fighting class once a week. No one below green belt is allowed to attend. With respect to hook kicks, I teach our students, for the purpose of friendly competition in the dojang, to point their toes straight out (a la round kick). This has the dual effect of (i) extending the reach by 6 inches or more and (ii) making the contact more of a slap than a heel strike. Does anyone else out there do this? I do warn our competitors however that they cannot count on that in a tournament (or even in class) and had therefore better block or evade. (I personally took a heel to the jaw--I reacted too slowly--a year ago, and while I was not knocked out or even down, I couldn't clench my teeth for about a week (and I was wearing a double mouthguard--the ones Century sells that fit top and bottom and have holes to breathe through). Kurt Rommel tkdkurt@aol.com McLean Virginia, USA I realize that teaching the slap style is less effective for self defense, but who is really going to throw a back hook kick on the street? What we are talking about here is sport competition. What harm is there in doing it that way when we are just trying to win a trophy? ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:43:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: details Good points have been made about learning more so that future mistakes might be reduced. So I stand corrected... I was not present at the US Open. I had to cancel my flight down at the last minute as I came down with a violent flu bug and spent all of Friday/Saturday/Sunday in bed. So all I know is what I hear from friends that were there. What I heard was that the competitor caught a spinning heel kick to the neck, and it apparently broke his neck. He very quickly went into a deep coma. If this is true, this is why I continue to claim that this was a freak occurrence. At least I know I've caught several very strong spin heel kicks in the neck over the years and I'm still here. I'm sure that a great many of you have experienced the same during practice or competition w/o lasting injury. But yes, this is a very dangerous kick to get hit with. So I don't think that we do Mr. Strube's memory proper respect by continuing to discuss this. I hope you agree. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:24:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: "Exaggerated expectations" John Bennett: In a message dated 1/13/99 7:16:58 PM, you wrote: << One thing I realized as a result of your post was that I dislike lower ranks calling me "sir" and "Mr. Bennett" somewhat due to laziness on my part. i.e. I don't want to have to constantly live up to their exaggerated expectations.>> Sorry, but I almost typed in "Mr.". I require lower ranks to address me as "Mr." and disagree with you that formality does not prevent injuries. In today's world, there is not much formality, and not much discipline. When I require my students to call me "Mr." or answer "yes/no sir", it teaches them discipline (to not answer in just any way). This discipline should carry over to the rest of the activities in the class, including sparring or step- sparring. There are no "exaggerated expectations" as I refer to the students as "Mr./Ms." regardless of their age. Having said that, I do not require students to refer to me as "Master." I believe that to be somewhat pretentious as I consider myself a student (please do not mistake this as false modesty because my master instructor correctly reminds me I am still a student). P.S. thanks for answering my question re: ATA/Kukkiwon. Peter M. ------------------------------ From: Bernard Eddey Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:31 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: A freak accident? If, as has been reported (perhaps Mr London can confirm it for us), this unfortunate death was due to a spinning heel kick, how can it be seen as an accident. A spinning heel kick, as we all should know, is one of the most devastating attacks possible in TKD. That is not to say that the attacker in this case set out to kill his opponent, he did however set out to score a point! To compare deaths in TKD to other contacts sports (soccer, rugby etc) is not a reasonable comparison. The object in these sports is meant to be 'the ball', the object in TKD is a direct attack on an opponent to cause "trembling shock". To call it an "accident" is pure 'ostrich' behavior. Perhaps this incident will cause a "trembling shock" within the organizations promoting a martial art as a "sport". (But I doubt it - there is too much money, ego, self promotion etc involved for it to make any real difference). It has been suggested that better protective gear would have prevented or minimized the chance of injury. CRAP!! This young guy died from bleeding inside his cranium. Head injuries of this nature are known as "rotational" i.e. they are caused by the brain (very soft tissue) bouncing around inside a bone casing. No amount of (functional) protective gear will prevent these types of injuries. In fact I have read recently that head gear (which adds weight to the cranium) can exacerbate these types of injuries. Perhaps a little physiology lesson is warranted. The brain (and spinal cord) is surrounded by three membranes which are lubricated by cerebro-spinal fluid. i.e. the brain sort of floats within the cranium. A sudden blow to any part of the head causes the cranium to move very quickly away from the direction of the blow. Due to inertia the brain tends to stay in the original position and is 'bashed' by the oncoming bony bit. This bashing moves the brain in the same direction as the head has traveled. By this time the bony bit has slowed or stopped - but not the brain. It gets 'bashed' on the other side as it runs into the opposite side of the skull. Now the aforementioned membranes are designed to withstand a minimal amount of force and protect the brain - I'm sure the design rules did not allow for direct blows such as those delivered in contact "sports". A blow that causes the head to spin (e.g. a lateral blow to the jaw with a spinning heel kick) can be even more devastating. The cranium turns, the brain stays put, momentarily, suddenly turns, the brain stem snaps or is so contused that death occurs fairly well instantaneously. A horrible scenario but true. Some sport! Bernard Eddey 1st DAN TKD Shanghai ------------------------------ From: Ernie Hart Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:00:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ray's comments + TKD sparring The tragedy at the US Open this weekend has impacted on all of us that do Korean martial arts. We all should take some time and reflect on our own practicing and teaching. Ray brought up some very valid points, and caught some flak for it. First and most important: TKD sparring is dangerous. The rules allow for full power shots to the face. Getting kicked lightly in the face can cause injuries. At elite events, the players are delivering and receiving very powerful techniques with precision timing. If you "pull" kicks, you won't win. In fact, you are more likely to get hurt. TKD people should pull together. Advocate better safety equipment. But don't start tossing blame around. It doesn't do any good. If you are ATA, ITF, etc. then I can understand the misunderstandings. If you are Kukkiwon certified, then you should know the rules and be able to understand the implications of them. Sparring is a hard contact sport. Please send any flames to me privately. E. Hart ehart@zoo.uvm.edu ------------------------------ From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:11:12 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: hapkido in mittens Tom wrote: > being as it's a cold and icy winter thus far here in Ohio, I was thinking > on the way home last night about how ineffective my training would work > in these conditions.. Tom, I think all the bad guys stay inside when the weather gets bad. > My question is, has anyone had the pleasure of taking a class outside in > regular winter gear and trying to spar???:) I noticed that it would > be damned hard to do much grappling when wearing gloves, Try practicing your grappling without using your hands. > > At the very least, go over falling with your students before they twist > their ankles outdoors.. nothing like doing a breakfall on a busy > sidewalk to get attention. :) On the lighter side, I just started snowboarding and your first day you spend alot of time on your butt or your face. Because of my experience with break falls I had a grand time. No sore butt or broken wrists for me. ------------------------------ From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Stepping up.... Greg wrote: > Something happened in our adult class yesterday that kind of leaves me > wondering... Greg, it seems to me that the instructor in your class has never discussed this situation with his assistants. In my opinion the instructor should have been aware that no one had taken charge. Your instructor should of then told one of the assistants to take over the class. ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:22:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #23 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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