From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #27 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 16 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 027 In this issue: the_dojang: instructor training the_dojang: Re: blame issue the_dojang: Re: breakdown the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #26 the_dojang: Control & the Spinning Hook Kick the_dojang: Re: US OPEN the_dojang: respecting the memory the_dojang: Re: Medical Records the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #25 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jana Lise" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:34:12 PST Subject: the_dojang: instructor training From: Jana Buttram (hebgbes@hotmail.com) >Do any of you have in-school "instructor training" sessions, >meetings, handbooks, classes? Or is it just as Jamaica said-- >unwritten codes of behaviour that are supposed to be understood? To the best of my knowledge there are no "training" courses for instructors. Having recently obtained my black belt (in TSD) it's almost a requirement to become a regular assistant instructor to at least one class. This way one learns how to instruct under the supervision of the senior instructor running the class, and basically moves up with the Dan level. The higher the dan, the higher the level of instructing experience. This is what I understood it to be, if someone has a better answer it will be welcome. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:17:08 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: blame issue snip_--> In the last few posts that I've read concerning the tragic death of Michael Strube, multiple people have said "Let's quit blaming people." I agree. We should learn from this and not try to point fingers at people or become bitter in any way. My question is this: Who has blamed anyone for this death? I personally have not read a single word over the past couple of days that even insinuates blame towards a person or even an organization for the death. The talk of responsibility is a positive outcome of discussing such things, not an effort to blame someone. Am I missing something here? Tang Soo! I am so glad that the point of blame has been brought up, because I never read any posts that inferred any blame on the part of the opponant either. I have been terribly stressed about sparring lately because I hate sparring. I hate knowing I might hurt someone, because I don't feel in control yet, and I know you have all told me that it will come with time, and you have all given me terrific techniques to practice. But the issue remains that this has always been my worst fear to hurt someone, and to the person who inferred that no one should consider it a criminal action-you were making trouble where none existed. Some people are great at sparring because they have that aggressive sports- thing going for them and they are not afraid to "go for it ". I am aggressive, but I am afraid. I know I am not the only one who feels that way. Tang Soo! Allison Duffbeer@aol.com 4th Gup, International Tang Soo Do ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:27:59 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: breakdown In a message dated 1/14/99 9:39:38 PM, Greg wrote: <> My instructor has 2 instructor training courses (which are mandatory for BBs and recommended (hint, hint, hint!) for BB wannabees). These courses are on how to answer the phone correctly, how to greet kibutzers, as well as curriculum. I learn something new every time. Take Care, Peter M. ------------------------------ From: dragon102@juno.com (Aaron J Woodburn) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:09:28 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #26 Jamaica wrote: > I agree that it is great that people should be trained in the areas of > CPR certification and First Aid certification but there are also words > of caution here. My understanding is that if you are in any way a > medical professional but not the designated medical professional for a > tournament you are putting yourself in major legal consequences for > attempting to treat any competitor for a number of reasons. _____________________________________________________________- In my CPR training course, the Good Samaratin Law was defined as: Once a trained/certified individual commences CPR on a Victim, He or she Cannot terminate Unless one or more of these occurances take place: 1) The victim regains both regular Pulmonary and Respiratory function. 2)The administrator is to exhausted to continue administering CPR. 3)The Ambulance arrives and an Emergency medical Technitian can relieve the Administrator. (this was not mentioned at the time but it must be one of these) the Victim vomits, then the administrator should roll the victim onto their side to allow for drainage of fluid. AJ Woodburn 2nd Dan, TSD dragon102@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:34:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Control & the Spinning Hook Kick Mark Herrick Wrote: >My Master teaches that the spinning hook kick is the most devastating and the most >difficult to control kick in TKD. He willl not let any of his students, even BB, use >the kick in competition until they can >demonstrate that they can control the blow. Until then, it can not be used. Certainly >a very responsible practice. One of the most difficult parts of my son's Black Belt test was the demonstration of control. He had to extinguish the flame of a candle first with a roundhouse kick, and then again with a spinning hook kick. >1) I do not believe in accidents. We practice a deadly art/sport. When we throw a kick >we are responsible for it. "Oops I didn't meqn to hurt you." "Oops sorry I didn't >know the gun was loaded." BS! Control, >control, control. Intent, intent, intent. Unforseen unintentional events happen, thats why there is a word for them - the word is in fact "Accidents". Control can reduce the probability of these events but nothing short of complete inaction can totally eliminate them. Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:14:40 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: US OPEN > > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:29:54 PST > Subject: the_dojang: Do You Have The Right Forum?? > Gregg London Wrote: > Unless you were there, sitting as we > were, fifteen feet from the ring, you have no right to speculate > on what WE SAW. You have no right to pass along, as fact, comments > that a friend of a friend heard. And you have no right to blame anyone. > G. London>>>> > Jamaica Replied > Mr. London: ...(People) have every right to > discuss the match as they would any other match... > Seeking the truth is also part of healing and grieving. Individuals and > TKD community members have the right to heal and to discover what > happened. Yes, we have the right. Have you ever seen an auto accident > and then asked the many eye witnesses what they saw. You won't get the > same answer from any of them. > > Discussion is healthy and healthy discussion brings out truths and > enables all of us to move forward with some semblance of sanity and the > ability to cope and to make changes to hopefully lessen the chances of > this ever happening again. This is a very civil forum on all threads > and Ray is to be complimented for keeping it that way. > Both of you have made excellent points. If you were there, What YOU SAW is and always will be the truth...for you. Someone with a different visual angle or even a different mindset may have percieved the exact same event very differently. If you weren't there (and I wasn't) at best you will get information second hand, if you get the information second hand from several sources some points may stand out as consistent, others may appear muddled or unclear. In any event it would be irresponsible to say the least for someone like myself to say "Here is What REally Happened..." because I will never know the 'truth' firsthand. I can however couple the 'consistent points', and even the 'muddled points' together with previous experiences I have had, or witnessed to guide me in my future actions. This I (and others I know) have done. Consequently Myself and at least two other Parents from our Dojang are working to create an "emergency Kit" that we can have on hand at every event we attend. We are also researching the logistics of having a Dedicated Paramedic with Transport at every In state event (Cost, Feasability, availablitiy etc.). These actions will reduce anxiety and may help to limit and/or prevent an injury. And if even just one person is positively impacted by these actions then Mr. Strube's Life will continue to exert an impact on the world. Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:47:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: respecting the memory Ray Wrote: >So I don't think that we do Mr. Strube's memory proper respect by continuing >to discuss this. I hope you agree. Actually Ray, I couldn't disagree more. I believe Mr. Strube will continue to live on by the effect his life had on others, as reflected in changes in thought or actions from those people. One week ago I had never heard of Mr. Strube, and his life never touched mine directly. Now it has, and as a result I am taking actions (ie: First aid supplies, etc.) which may impact some individual in the future. When that happens Mr. Strubes life will have touched THAT Person, and how ever slighty, that person will be changed. For what it's worth, thats what I believe. Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:52:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Medical Records > > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:16:02 PST > Subject: the_dojang: Medical Records of Athletes > > First, I would like to see us (no matter what organization) mandate, yes > mandate, that all athletes bring with them to every tournament their > medical records for the past year. This is not hard to do. A simple > medical release form to their clinician and they have a photocopy. This > would facilitate their care should they have to go to a hospital or if > there is an MD at the tournament that needs to treat them. If an > athlete has sustained head injuries in the past, is allergic to certain > medications, has epileptic seizures, etc etc then these are things that > are not only important but imperative to know whether or not the athlete > is over or under the age of 18. This would also help the coach or other > person that is responsible for their care while at the tournament. I > personally can't believe this is not in place already. Good Idea In theory, and Personally as an Emergency Room RN we would LOVE to see every patient that walks or is wheeled into our ER have a full and complete copy of their medical records with them.... However there is also the issue of Patient Confidentiality. There are many competitors who, for whatever personal reasons, would not want to have there full medical history on hand for perusal at a tournament. We should respect there privacy, and by law we must. > I agree that it is great that people should be trained in the areas of > CPR certification and First Aid certification but there are also words > of caution here. My understanding is that if you are in any way a > medical professional but not thee designated medical professional for a > tournament you are putting yourself in major legal consequences for > attempting to treat any competitor for a number of reasons. A popular misconception. There exists in every state (that I am aware of) a "good samaritan law" in one form or another. This law basically states that If an individual renders reasonable and prudent medical care in an emergent situation, that person can not be held liable - even if negative consequences result from those actions. The Key here is Reasonable and Prudent - Hence my earlier caution about maintaining cervical spine precautions in any head/upperbody trauma until spinal damage has been ruled out by X-ray... > > Herein lies the problem. Most of us morally and ethically would jump in > and try and help. I would. The point is that if you hold any kind of > medical certification your good intentions may work against you. ie... > it is more dangerous (legally) for a medical clinician to dispense even > an aspirin at a tournament than it would be for a parent to give another > parent or friend an aspirin. The medical clinician is expected to know > better and to review case histories, allergies, past medical concerns > before dispensing or treating anyone. And in each state there are laws > governing how you should treat victims and who can dispense meds. You are right here, in regards to medication administration. However I can not think of any situation at a tournament that would require me to administer any medication, unless the patient was in full cardiac arrest, and in that situation The paramedics would have the medication and they (or I) could legally give the medications or defibrillations (Heart shocks) per ACLS protocol. mmmmmm - Maybe if someone was having an asthma attack and was having trouble accessing his/her rescue inhaler - but that would be self administered anyway. If the individual couldn't give him/herself the inhaler we would have called 911 and would probably be at the rescue breathing phase of CPR. > With that said I would prefer a proactive approach and make sure that > before we go to tournaments we request (in writing) that this tournament > have on hand designated MD's, paramedics and ambulance services Can't argue with that. Hopefully the US Open tragedy will be a wake up call/kick in the pants for tournament coordinators to have these on hand > and that the critical care/crisis unit at the nearest hospital is notified that > injuries might occur that day. Not necessary - Thats what we do in the Emergency Department, we are always ready for anything. >Often the nearest hospital will not be the hospital that the injured party is sent to >because they might not be the trauma center for the area. This also needs to be >checked out. Not really necessary. In my state (Maryland), EMT's and Paramedics evaluate the patient in the feild, decide the level of care needed (ie: trauma center) and transport or arrange helicopeter transport. Paramedics are VERY familier with the capabilities of various hospitals, and are in constant radio contact with at least 2 hospitals for each call (in case one Emergency room is overloaded etc.) so they can route each patient to the best facility for the patients needs in the quickest time. PARAMEDICS ARE GOLD. They can even do some things in the field that we Nurses can't do in the Hospital (in this state at least). Frankly I would rather have one paramedic team at a tournament than 10 Doctors, Paramedics Do emergencies and trauma 8 hrs a day. Chances are very low that any physician at a tournament would be certified in emergency medicine - more likely He/she would be family practice/Dermatology/OB-GYN etc. Once again Jamaica you have brought up excellent points. Thanks for allowing me to clarify/expound Eric Mueller RN ericm@friend.ly.net ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:12:56 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #25 > > From: > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:18:29 -0800 (PST) > Subject: the_dojang: CPR/Medic First-Aid certification > > wrt keeping one's certification active, what exactly is required? > > I usually go through the Medic First-Aid two-day class every few years > which probably means the years that I don't I am not certified. Is that > correct? Are you supposed to attend the two-day class every year or is > there a shorter refresher class to attend once you've attended the two-day > class? > The ATA requires all certified instructors to have CPR / First Aid training and that it be current in order to recertify. That means we have to attend the class at least once every three years (length of our certification). The American Red Cross Standard First Aid course covers our requirements and you are certified for CPR and First Aid. However, the Red Cross only certifies you for one year at a time in CPR; the First Aid is good for three years at a time. It's a one day course, cheap at the price. I require all of my Black Belts, certified instructors or not, to take it and I pay 50% of the course cost for them. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:34:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #27 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.