From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #28 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 16 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 028 In this issue: the_dojang: Tournament injury prevention the_dojang: Re: BLAME the_dojang: accidents the_dojang: Instructor Training the_dojang: Re: accident at USTU in California the_dojang: Re: Magazines the_dojang: Medical Records of Athletes the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:14:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Tournament injury prevention Just a quick two cents on my part snip -> "A popular misconception. There exists in every state (that I am aware of) a "good samaritan law" in one form or another. This law basically states that If an individual renders reasonable and prudent medical care in an emergent situation, that person can not be held liable - even if negative consequences result from those actions. The Key here is Reasonable and Prudent - Hence my earlier caution about maintaining cervical spine precautions in any head/upperbody trauma until spinal damage has been ruled out by X-ray..." In New England states the best thing for anyone to do is to train people how to call 911 and what to say to the operators. I have had many friends in different fields be sued after saving a persons life, and they really did save there life. When you administer first aid up here you are asking for trouble (especially if you are certified), if you hurt the person, but save their life a lawyer will come after you for the injury; if you administer first aid and the person dies, the lawyer will come after you for not saving the life; if you dial 911 and adminster first aid until the parametics arrive, the lawyer could come after you for injuries and /or death. If you avoid certification of CPR and first aid, you dial 911 and keep the person alive until the paramedics arrives you will most likely not be sued. This is not you say that you should not get certified for medical emergencies, this is just to state what some of my friends lives have been touched with. Snip -> "And in each state there are laws > governing how you should treat victims and who can dispense meds." Again, in New england states you are asking for trouble if you dispense any medication. Snip -> "Not really necessary. In my state (Maryland), EMT's and Paramedics evaluate the >patient in the feild, decide the level of care needed (ie: trauma center) and transport or arrange helicopeter transport. Paramedics are VERY familier with the capabilities of various hospitals, and are in constant radio contact with at least 2 hospitals for each call (in case one Emergency room is overloaded etc.) so they can route each patient to the best facility for the patients needs in the quickest time. PARAMEDICS ARE GOLD. They can even do some things in the field that we Nurses can't do in the Hospital (in this state at least). Frankly I would rather have one paramedic team at a tournament than 10 Doctors, Paramedics Do emergencies and trauma 8 hrs a day. Chances are very low that any physician at a tournament would be certified in emergency medicine - - more likely He/she would be family practice/Dermatology/OB-GYN etc." Very important and good statement, you should have paramedics look at most Emergency room types of injuries. But there are doctors out there who will look at injuries specifically from tournaments, and they know what they are looking at or for. Maybe it is time Martial Arts looks for a few doctors for our tournaments, but to always have paramedics on hand. Use the Paramedics for the assesment of whether it is or is not an Emergency room situation, and have the doctor there to asses other injuries with possible long term affects and/or declaring them unfit to continue competing due to chances of more sever injuries. One other good thing about Drs at tournements would be that they are good reference point for minor injuries that need to be looked if the competitor has traveled, and doesn't know any Drs in the area. Medical insurance doesn't always cover trips to the Emergency room. - -Stacy ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:32:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: BLAME OK. I'm getting tired of this. First it was attack Ray for calling it an accident...now its attack me for saying "there was no crime here". Jeeeeeshhhh! For all of you who seemed to have missed the posting that started this....here it is: From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:14:10 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: State-of-Our-Art I do not want to dabble in morbid curiosity by asking for further detail as to the death at the US Open. I do think, however, that calling it an "accident" when it was an opponent's kick which precipitated it is disingenuous. Even if it was the contact with the floor which was the direct cause, that contact would not have occurred but for the kick. Kurt Rommel tkdkurt@aol.com McLean Virginia, USA And here is a similar posting: From: Bernard Eddey Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:31 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: A freak accident? If, as has been reported (perhaps Mr London can confirm it for us), this unfortunate death was due to a spinning heel kick, how can it be seen as an accident. A spinning heel kick, as we all should know, is one of the most devastating attacks possible in TKD. That is not to say that the attacker in this case set out to kill his opponent, he did however set out to score a point! To call it an "accident" is pure 'ostrich' behavior. And this post was probably the most inflamatory. I reprinted it here in its entirety out of fairness to the writers opinion: From: Mark Herrick Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:22:21 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Response to Ray Ray, you wrote: >>It was a freak accident. Not sure we need to know all the exact details. I know that I don't really care to. Would it really make a difference to the competitor and his family & friends?<< 1) I do not believe in accidents. We practice a deadly art/sport. When we throw a kick we are responsible for it. "Oops I didn't meqn to hurt you." "Oops sorry I didn't know the gun was loaded." BS! Control, control, control. Intent, intent, intent. 2) You may not care to know the details, but in this case ignorance is not bliss. We can only learn frrom our mistakes by being candid and frank in our self reflection. A death is the most serious consequence. One worth much consideration and deliberation. You run this list as a forum for TKD. If you dont want to use the forum to improve the art and reflect on the good and bad points of TKD then I am not sure what value the Dojang Digest serves other than self aggrandizement. 3) It would certainly make a difference to his family and friends if they knew changes would be made to prevent future deaths like his. Small comfort but some. >>For the wrong person in the wrong position at the wrong time, most any blow could be a killing blow. What would you teach, especially given that 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time there will not be a problem?<< So he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time? Shame on you. That was a cold heartless comment. My Master teaches that the spinning hook kick is the most devastating and the most difficult to control kick in TKD. He willl not let any of his students, even BB, use the kick in competition until they can demonstrate that they can control the blow. Until then, it can not be used. Certainly a very responsible practice. Andy Grove of Intel wrote a book, "Only the Paranoid Survive." Meaning you plan, and train for the worst possible contingency regardless of how unlikely it may be. Because S*^T DOES Happen! You may not run your own school, or be an instructor, but those who do have a responsibility to teach TKD to their students so that they are responsible practitioners. >>And what makes you claim that? I've seen otherwise in every situation that I've been involved with.<< I see it all the time in Northern California. I hear supporters in the stands, friends, family and 'masters,' commenting, "knock him out" "put him on a stretcher." etc. I also wrote about the Master who did nothing when his competitor knock his opponent unconscious with uncontrolled kicks. I see poor referreeing al the time. I see competitors who are over aggressive all the time. I no longer allow my son to compete for very clear reasons. It has become too dangerous. >>Accidents happen. S*^t happens. A handful of high school football players die every few years during practice or a game. Are all first string football players and their coaches then responsible for those tragedies? Of course not...<< Coaches are ALWAYS absolutely rsponsible for their players actions on the field. And, why do you think safety equipment has become mandated and is even under consideration to be upgraded? What do you think liability suits are all about? Again, we have a responsibility to ourselves, our students and the Art to make it as safe as possible. If we neglect to do even one thing to make the Art safer then we are responsible for any future death. >>Regarding equipment. Well, perhaps details might help out a little here. >From what little I've heard, equipment limitations were not a problem here so that is not a concern.<< No? Might as well go in without any pads then if this is how you feel. And, Ray. Care to comment why with several documented deaths due to hard wood floors TKD still sanctions tournaments without mats? Regards, Mark Herrick 1st Dan, WTF whtlotus@nichiren.org OK....now will you get of my ass about my post. I said what I said because it seemed to me there has been an awful lot of insinuation that the as yet unknown opponent in this case purposely kicked to cause injury or was wanton in his actions....ergo...criminal. I disagree and I didn't like the bashing Ray was taking for calling it an "accident". Are we all on the same sheet of music now? John Hancock ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:35:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: accidents Unforseen unintentional events happen, thats why there is a word for them - the word is in fact "Accidents". Control can reduce the probability of these events but nothing short of complete inaction can totally eliminate them. Eric Mueller Thank you Mr. Mueller. That needed to be said ONE MORE TIME...obviously. John Hancock ------------------------------ From: Ron Sell Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:57:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Instructor Training Having great instructors is a must in any school, besides being CPR certified my instructors go through a 2 hour instructor training course weekly. I have written an instructor's manual that covers everything (almost) that an instructor would go through during a class session. In the manual is: How to choose a Leadership Team Why do we teach? 12 Qualities of a martial arts instructor Correcting students' mistakes The compliment sandwich Pro-Active Discipline in the classroom Written rules for the Classroom Praise for positive behavior (kids) Positive Feedback (kids and adults) Consequences for negative behavior The Shamu method of teaching Martial Arts SSL How to grow a small class into a BIG one! The makeup of a perfect class the role os the: Main Instructor the role os the: Squad Instructors the role os the: Leadership Team Teaching Life Skills High Energy Drills Using Lesson Plans Keeping the attention of your hyperactive students Ways to identify if your students are loosing attention Starts and Stops method of teaching Pre-Framing and Re-Framing techniques Teaching a student a new form/kata the 3 Phase system of teaching Martial Arts the Three MAJOR learning methods and how to teach all three ways at the same time How to keep your high ranking student & Black Belts, their role in the school Disguising repetition Body Language while teaching There is three more pages in my table of contents, if any one would like to buy a copy of the manual it is available, (941) 853-2250 We also have a multi-media CD-ROM for Mac/PC that you can give to your instructors to learn to be better instructors, it is based on the manual. The book is 250 pages and is called iManual, copyright 1998 Ron Sell. Have a great day! Ron Sell http://www.4kicks.com/tips/ ------------------------------ From: Jessica Egner Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:12:09 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: accident at USTU in California Although I am only 7th gup TKD, I have ridden horses for 9 years hunter/jumper (show or stadium jumping). Every time I mount a horse, I know that falls happen and that I could be seriously injured or killed in an accident. Every reasonable safety precaution (protective gear on both rider and horse, responsible riding with respect to other riders, and responsible training with respect to size of jumps and ability of each horse and rider) is taken at my barn and in my riding career, I have only been to the hospital once (nothing broken, just a strain) and my barn thankfully has lost no horses or riders to accidents while exercising or training. However, just because it has never happened does not mean it never could. It seems obvious to me that TKD would be no different. Every time I enter my dojang for practice, I know that something could happen. (I have never been to a competition or tournament.) I accept that TKD is dangerous and that occasionally, unforeseen and unpreventable accidents happen. Of course, I also love the physical exercise and the fellowship of my school. Jessica Egner 7th gup TKD ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:23:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Magazines In a message dated 1/8/99 9:12:13 PM, you wrote: << >Hi all and Happy new year: >What magazines are available for martial artists other than black belt? Is >there one for Tang Soo Do? >Tang Soo! >Allison >4th gup, International Tang Soo Do > Allison, I'm a little behind on everything...my apologies. (I started a new job recently and been focused on learning Java, Javascript and other Java related stuff....Mr. Wizard, I don't want to be a programmer any more......) The American Tang Soo Do Association (the other ATA) used to produce an annual magazine called "American Tang Soo Do Illustrated." There are back copies available and you can call Master Byrne at 781-324-9568 for information. I left the organization (for a number of personal reasons) last November and I am no longer involved in the magazine production, so I don't know if they are doing another magazine or not. Again, Master Byrne can let you know. I personally find the ATA to be a well run organization and have nothing but good things to say about Master Byrne. My reasons for leaving are *very* personal and have to do with taking time out to build on my relationship with my s/o and blending our families. I find that this currently needs to be my priority...as well as learning Java and Java related stuff ; ) Tang Soo! Karla ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:52:28 PST Subject: the_dojang: Medical Records of Athletes Once again Jamaica you have brought up excellent points. Thanks for allowing me to clarify/expound. Eric M ______________________________ And thank you Eric for taking the time to provide such a great response, more information and more questions. Without cutting and pasting, I will agree that confidentiality is of uptmost importance and especially in the case of medical records, however, I still believe athletes should (ideally) provide some part of their medical records which will assist them in case they get hurt, especially allergies, allergic reactions to meds, any contraindications they have had in the past, etc. In this day and age even anonymous HIV testing is becoming obsolete and I hope we can continue to move forward so that everyone can be helped quickly, efficiently and appropriately including the opponents in the matches. Entire medical records are not necessary only those sections which could facilitate medical care. I think this is also a responsibility of the athletes and if underage; something for the parents to think about. What additionally bothers me is that this particular sport does not provide any indication that the athletes have been given medical clearance by any medical provider. They could be at risk prior to their coming to the tournament and nobody would ever know it. I can't think of any other sport that permits this. I do know state laws differ from state to state. I know laws for nurse practitioners differ from physicians assistants as they do for paramedics, etc. I agree that I would prefer to see a team of parmedics on hand at a tournament rather than a specialized or Family Practice MD... Agreed, not even a question. And I'm glad to see that you have radio/telephone contact with the hospitals etc but I do know not all cities, counties and townships even have critical care/crisis units set up (believe it or not) and some of the tournaments, have this issue to deal with. Re: prescriptive authority and dispensing of meds. I agree - highly unlikely but realistic and feasible. Additionally if you become "known" for being the medical person individuals might depend on you (and others) for aspirin and other meds to alleviate headaches, pain, swelling and other acute injuries. The other reason I stated that I would prefer to have a designated practitioner on hand and why I believe they put themselves at risk for malpractice is because these tournaments know prior to the tournament that there is risk/danger involved. By not providing proper medical care and onsite providers it could be interpreted (depending on the circumstances) that they are recklessly endangering the lives of the athletes at the tournament by not providing a safe environment for the competition. (Please, I am generalizing here to make a point). But think about it. When background or in the stands medical providers and good samaritans respond to an apparent "emergency" situation at a tournament, I have to ask myself why is this and if this is indeed an emergency. I think not. Only in the sense that someone chose not to provide the onsite care and a personal good samaritan came to the rescue. My question to you Eric would be if you are beginning to set up First Aid kits anticipating that there could be a potential accident aren't you accepting the responsibility for the tournament? Since tournaments are recurring events and are not one time occurrences aren't we reaffirming the continuation of lack of proper care by being prepared in the background. And if injuries occur could not someone make a case that it has been practice if not policy within the TKD environment to be negligent in this area by established past practices. And don't those few lax directors of tournaments come to depend on your appearance and existence at the tournament? My concern is who would be challenged more - the tournament or the good samaritan>? And who suffers - the tournament or the athlete.??? Respectfully and more thought for everyone's consideration. Thanks. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:23:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #28 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.