From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #29 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 029 In this issue: the_dojang: To John the_dojang: different styles the_dojang: Sparring. the_dojang: Re: medical records the_dojang: Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae info the_dojang: ???????????????????? Re: the_dojang: ???????????????????? the_dojang: Perry your email bounced the_dojang: Scoring Points Re: the_dojang: Scoring Points the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Herrick Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:34:43 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: To John John you wrote: <<>> I do appreciate that you reprinted my entire "inflamatory" post. I stand behind every word I wrote. So we are not on the same page. We clearly have very different view points. And, I dont think Ray needs you to stand up for him. He and I have written and we are square on things. We have agreed to disagree. I certainly respect his opinion. You on the other hand do not seem to respect mine, or the others who wrote a differing opinion. You were the one who has chosen to extend our remarks to include "criminal intent" ie: Manslaughter. Not me. You do raise an interesting point though, the competitor could be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter, but that's up to the DA. Read the California Penal Code. If you dont have it let me know I wil excerpt the PC section. Our entire society seems to be having difficulty with the concept of personal responsibility. My post was written to mean that we have to be careful to understand that we are each responsible for what happens to us. The Law of Cause and Effect is an implacable and impersonal law which does not play favorites and operates whether it is acknolwedged or not. Martial Artists better be very clear on the concept of Cause and Effect. You throw any full force kick to the head and you dont think it is going to hurt, injure or kill? That is disconnected from Reality. We practice a martial art, with inherent dangers. We must do everything possible to make it safer. My post went into much more detail on suggestions how we can make it safer. Perhaps it would be more constructive to engage on these subjects? Let me try again: 1) improve the safety equipment we wear using the technology we now have. Look what Air Force pilots wear to protect their head. Look what Fencers wear to scrore hits. 2) Change the rules to encourage more body strikes. Allow punches to score again. Limit head contact to "Light Contact." 3) Mandate mats in all rings. 4) [here is certainly a controversial one] Make competitors who spar first participate in Poomse, just like Skaters must start with Cumpulsory Exercises. [put a little of the Art back in the Sport] What do you think we could do? Regards, Mark Herrick 1st Dan, WTF whtlotus@nichiren.org ------------------------------ From: Mika =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E4rvinen?= Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:37:08 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: different styles Hi folks, Is it harmful to my ITF-Taekwondo style to take lessons from other martial art-styles=20 ie. Taido, Aikido. I am pretty satisfied of our methods, but I want to learn different styles. Should I practise Hapkido or some other korean style? Regards. Mika J=E4rvinen ------------------------------ From: CMPorter@webtv.net (Chris Porter) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:11:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Sparring. The purpose of sparring is to teach us how to block and attack, how to judge our distance and our timing, how to create combinations and to learn how to effectivley apply what we are learning. But most importantly sparring teaches us how to work with our PARTNER with good give and take. Ask yourself why you spar, what is your purpose and it should soon become apparent that by working together with your PARTNER you can better understand yourself and those around you. Sparring to score a point, or to win a contest can't effectivley lead you anywhere. To seek the truth outside of oneself is to get farther and farther away. CMPorter@webtv.net ------------------------------ From: "Oh Captain, my captain" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:47:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: medical records > Without cutting and pasting, I will agree that confidentiality is of > uptmost importance and especially in the case of medical records, > however, I still believe athletes should (ideally) provide some part of > their medical records which will assist them in case they get hurt, > especially allergies, allergic reactions to meds, any contraindications > they have had in the past, etc. In this day and age even anonymous HIV Instead of providing an abriged version of their records, how about a section on the application asking about any heath problems, allergies, etc. This way you could get the information from the people who don't really mind giving it. James ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:55:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae info I received this info about a month ago. Sorry to take so long to share with the list. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com "... [for those interested in hosting JI Han-Jae in a Hapkido seminar] Please contact Master Ken Mackenzie in New Jersey and set a date for the seminar. "Grandmaster Ji is doing well. He will now be known as Do Ju Nim (Do as in hapdi-DO, Ju as in JUice) or Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae. Do Ju is the Korean word for Founder. He will be addressed as either Do Ju Nim or Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae but not Do Ju Nim Ji, Han-Jae. He is currently working with two individuals (business partnership) on expanding and spreading the word of Sin Moo Hapkido and the possibility of marketing Do Ju Nim. They have decided to go on the world wide web to do this. They feel this is the quickest and most feasible thing to do at this moment. Look for the official Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae web page sometime early 1999. "Also in the works: Video and book publication, and uniform change. First the video and book. Hopefully we will be shooting spring 1999. This next message is for all the area representatives around the world. Do Ju Nim would like for all the area representatives to come to the New Jersey area in helping to shoot the video. He would like for the representatives to do a few techniques (with an assistant) to be included in the video. This I feel is a chance of a lifetime and the area representatives should try and make it to the video shoot. The dates of the video shoot should be announced in the upcoming web page. At the time of the video shoot the uniform change will also be announced. The uniform will be gray in color with ankle ties. Traditional "karate" belts will be also changed for a "kung fu" type of sash. The sash will also be in gray with stripes to distinguish the belt levels and rankings of the individual. But more importantly the sash will be part of the Sin Moo Hapkido weapon techniques. "In the New Jersey area they are planning a large gathering of Sin Moo Hapkido students for a party to honor Do Ju Nim. It will be held on the second week of April 1999. For details you should contact Master Ken Mackenzie at (609) 346-1111. He will be throwing the party and also he is the current acting United States Sin Moo Hapkido Representative. Also there will be an ad placed in the future issue of Tae Kwon Do Times magazine advertising the event. It is open to all student to attend. If you need to get in touch with Do Ju Ji, Han-Jae you should call Master Ken Mackenzie at this school. He will be forwarding all messages to him. [end] ------------------------------ From: "chris hernandez" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:36:49 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: ???????????????????? >So I don't think that we do Mr. Strube's memory proper respect by continuing >to discuss this. I hope you agree. I disagree!!!!! People's interest in this tragedy is not disrespect... It is no different then imagine if a close friend or relative was killed or seriously injured in a accident, Human nature dictates that You would want to know all the details of the accident!!! Correct??? Dispite the fact that knowing every gruesome detail will not change the outcome!!!! I use this analogy because regardless of the fact that We do not personally know Mr. Strube We do feel a certain kinship because of the practice of a certain art We all share.. Whether You practice Traditional or Sport TKD does not make a difference .. Whether You compete in tournaments or not does not matter what matters is that We want to in some way by knowing exactly what happened to prevent this or at least try to prevent this from happening to Ourselves or possible a Loved one. Correct Me if I am wrong.. I welcome all responses. Chris Hernandez iceman@cyberg8t.com Cho Dan Bo Chang Moo Kwan ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:53:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: ???????????????????? > >So I don't think that we do Mr. Strube's memory proper respect by > >continuing to discuss this. I hope you agree. > > I disagree!!!!! People's interest in this tragedy is not disrespect... > It is no different then > imagine if a close friend or relative was killed or seriously injured in a > accident, Human nature dictates that You would want to know all the details > of the accident!!! Correct??? Correct? Incorrect? This is probably one of those situations where neither is the case. Do I agree w/the above? No. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Herrick Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:09:55 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Perry your email bounced Perry, thanks for writing. I tried to reply but my emails bounced back. pseto1@ibm.net Please try me again Mark whtlotus@nichiren.org ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:40:16 PST Subject: the_dojang: Scoring Points 3) Judges rarely score body kicks. Mark Actually, the majority of points scored are kicks to the body. Ray Terry - ----------------------------------- Actually Ray this surprised me. Over the years as punches to the chest were phased out (meaning they were no longer scoring points) even when well executed, then kicks to the body became more popular. I could see your statement as true for the only reason that there are a lot of competitors that cannot kick to the head so because of the sheer number of kicks thrown to the body as opposed to the head it would be accurate. But I think that is changing rapidly especially in the black belt divisions. I'd be interested to see the number of points to the head as opposed to the chest in the more elite competitions. I saw where some differentiation was needed over the years as to a kick and a scoring kick. Now here, I'm not just talking elite athlete competition. The referees sometimes have a difficult time deciding a "scoring" kick in some of the matches of colored belts and black belts. Some referees I'm sure wait with bated breath for that more forceful more powerful kick. The one that pushed the opponent a bit; the one that made more noise; showed some force or good technique. Yes there are written rules in place as to what a scoring kick is but in the ring it takes on a new dimension and the refs are the ones accountable and put under scrutiny for their calls by the athletes, coaches, people in the stands and their superiors. It's very easy to challenge the call of the refs when kicks are not well executed (to the chest). I know many refs have also gotten accused of not scoring any points during a match when kicks were thrown even though they didn't feel any of the kicks were worthy of a point. So it's sort of a Catch 22. But with a head kick there never seems to be a question. Even if a toe barely grazes the helmet or from a different angle looks like it touched the helmet, a score is made and nobody will challenge it or make an appeal. Guaranteed point. I think this difficulty in consistently determining what a scoring kick is leads to the practice of more strikes and more forceful strikes to the head instead of to the chest and the same thing is happening to kicks as did with punches. Less energy and time is expended on learning kicks and combinations and perfecting them. If you (the competitor) knows all you need to do to win is hit the head a couple times that's what you will practice. If your goal is to win you will concentrate on the most effective method of achieving that goal and the less controversial. And over time this has been the trend that has been developing. No different than any other sport say just like boxing. We all like to see that left cross or upper cut to the chin that makes the opponent swagger or go down or draw a little blood. Then there is no doubt in our minds who the winner is when that happens. I didn't watch the Tyson fight but can't wait to see his punch. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:18:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Scoring Points > 3) Judges rarely score body kicks. Mark > > Actually, the majority of points scored are kicks to the body. > > Ray Terry > ----------------------------------- > > Actually Ray this surprised me. Over the years as punches to the chest > were phased out (meaning they were no longer scoring points) even when > well executed, then kicks to the body became more popular. > > I could see your statement as true for the only reason that there are a > lot of competitors that cannot kick to the head so because of the sheer > number of kicks thrown to the body as opposed to the head it would be > accurate. But I think that is changing rapidly especially in the black > belt divisions. I'd be interested to see the number of points to the > head as opposed to the chest in the more elite competitions. My comments were wrt elite competitions. I was surprised to actually see a punch score (the opponent was knocked down) at the Pan Am TKD games. But most of the points scored are from kicks to the body, more specifically roundhouse-type kicks to the body. A kick to the head will often score, but they have to connect and most do not. The great thing about electronic scoring is that you can tell exactly what the corner refs are counting and what they aren't. I love it... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:19:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #29 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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