From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #37 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 037 In this issue: the_dojang: The Wacky World of CPR the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #36 the_dojang: Move To Korea the_dojang: Women Instructors the_dojang: Re: behavior at tourneys the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #36, The Chicken Dance the_dojang: Re: Ki and Aura the_dojang: Re: the source of power the_dojang: Burnout the_dojang: Female/Male Sparring the_dojang: (Shots to the groin) RE: The Chicken Dance the_dojang: Profound Impact the_dojang: Re: AJ Woodburn the_dojang: Instruction/Gender the_dojang: Source of power the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #35 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Bennett" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:02:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: The Wacky World of CPR Eric Mueller wrote: "John, What field are you in??" I teach doctors and nurses CPR. I used to teach Red Cross First Aid, but they got too money hungry, so I developed my own First Aid class that meets the requirements of the mental health facility where I work. Basically, there are three levels of CPR training: Heartsaver Course: includes, One-Rescuer CPR and Foreign Body Airway Obstruction Management for adult victims. Healthcare Provider Course: One and Two rescuer CPR for adults, children, & infants. FBAOM for each. Plus more info on defibrillation, barrier devices, and special situations (stoma, etc.) Advanced Cardiac Life Support Course (ACLS) It's for ER physicians and guys like you. I've heard it's basically the same stuff as AHA-CPR, only in more detail. I don't teach this so I don't know a lot about it. I believe your Nursing Educator is wrong. Ask her to show you a certificate or card from your CPR course provider that has the word "certified" on it. She won't be able to. ACLS maybe, but I seriously doubt it. I'd be interested in hearing whether she could. Regarding "certification". True, it really just boils down to semantics, but the AHA encourages it's instructors to help dispel this common misconception. I believe that they want to avoid having the public at large (from which juries are drawn ) hold lay rescuers too liable by considering them "certified". I've heard stories about juries holding black belt MA's to a higher standard in self-defense cases because of their misconceptions as to what a black belt ranking actually means. Maybe this is something like that. Regarding Good Samaritan Laws: A person cannot be successfully sued unless they perform the techniques in a manner that is "willfully and wantonly negligent". That doesn't mean you can't be sued. It just means that only an idiot lawyer would try. Most states have Good Samaritan laws designed specifically for "persons licensed in the healing arts". They work the same way. "certified", "trained", "vaguely familiarized", who cares! The point is that knowledge is power. Certain bits of knowledge may give you the power to save a life. Now THAT is Power!!! John Bennett http://www.lcc.net/~jbennett http://www.machadojj.com/carlos ------------------------------ From: "Oh Captain, my captain" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:05:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #36 If you leave the scene and leave the guy on the ground, there is a very real chance that you will wind up in jail charged with manslaughter or worse if the bozo dies. The point of view of our screwed up legal system is that, if you incapacitate him, you're responsible for him. How's that for justice? - ------------------ I'm not so sure about this. In a one-on-one situation, you've got a pretty good chance of convincing the authorities that you acted in self-defense. If you're jumped in an alley, I don't imagine that that would be the person's first incident with the law. If you're in a bar, there should be witnesses around to help sort out who started it. I think that if you're open about what happened and honest from the start, you've got a pretty good chance of the police taking your side. James ------------------------------ From: Michael Pederson Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:27:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Move To Korea > Any thoughts or advice from anyone? I could definetly use it right now. > > Jeremy - ---------------------------------------------------------- I might be able to give you some useful information, though I don't know all that much about Chunju. I've been living in Seoul for about three years. Send me a message if you want. Michael Pederson Seoul mpeder@ibm.net ------------------------------ From: burdickd Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:23:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Women Instructors Wow Jamaica, two juicy threads on the same day! Well, I'll skip the injured attacker one, because everyone has done a great job the posts already, and leap with both feet into the women instructors. I really don't think it makes any difference whether an instructor is male or female, unless you are teaching teenagers. When you do that, you find that the girls will look for female rolemodels and the guys will look for male rolemodels. Of course, there are fewer women in the martial arts and few of them that continue after black belt. With my wife, kids definitely stopped martial arts for her for a while. She has devoted herself to them for at least until both turn two, at which time we ought to all be able to work out together again (she's 2nd dan TKd and 1st dan HKD by the way). The women who do continue past black belt tend to be pretty damn good. I went to a small circle jujutsu seminar and worked out with one of the Long Island Dojo instructors (can't remember her name unfortunately) who was also a judoka and loved it. She really knew her stuff and it was fun watching her paste the guys she was teaching to the ground. Arlene Limas is also an excellent instructor, and very intense. Michelle Soruco in our own federation (the U.S.H.F.) is also always fun to work out with, because she is so little and yet so very nasty when she wants to be! :) By the way, to all the women out there, if you are interested in husbands then the martial arts are the place to look. The black belt marriages I've seen have all been really long lasting, if only because the guy realizes what a lucky SOB he is. There are a TON of guys out there who want a wife who understands the martial arts. I can think of at least four of my friends who have me out hunting up a wife for them already! :) Take care, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:31:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: behavior at tourneys Hello All. My friend has come to me asking about how best to get "people" [kids, parents and sadly some masters] to behave better at tournaments. I have my own opinions of course but would like to hear what has worked for others. I have never seen a master behave inappropriately but boy some of the parents I have seen. They are usually worse than the kids! Thanks, Dawne No1IDIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:10 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #36, The Chicken Dance Jamaica wrote: > Seriously now, what is the best, most effective method for healing and > getting rid of the pain...for men and women. My son's old coach had guys lie down and slapped the bottom of their heels (hard) a couple of times. He said it had to do with pressure points and was why bouncing on the heels helped. But he found that a couple of good hard smacks to the proper point on the foot was a faster way to bring relief. Sally CBAUGHN@aol.com ------------------------------ From: scink Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:20:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ki and Aura Jana, I do not want to turn this into a class here but... 'Ki' would be considered a method for focusing the energy. If one is floating in a vacuum with nothing to push against it may be very difficult to create power. Where you push from, usually the ground, would be the source of power. In my opinion, 'Ki' is used to focus ones energy but not a source. However, momentum is something different. The 'Aura' concept never really made too much sense to me. I try to think of it as combining ones senses so that one can 'feel' things that may not be apparent. By working with people with disabilities I have seen that ones senses can be heightened. A blind or deaf person may be able to determine the location of an object without seeing or hearing it, respectively. Just my opinion at this point in time, comments are welcome... - -- Scott Cink scink@who.net >>He explained how power came from the ground. That if one focuses >>power directly from the source to the destination it is much more >>effective than twisting and turning in unnatural ways to generate> >>some convoluted form of "power". > >Is he referring to 'Ki', Scott? I guess it could come from the ground, >but I always understood it to be more of a controllable "aura" of energy >and power all around you. I'm not the greatest person to explan >this...maybe someone else could elucidate for me. > >Jana ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:26:29 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: the source of power >>>>He explained how power came from the ground. That if one focuses >power directly from the source to the destination it is much more >effective than twisting and turning in unnatural ways to generate> >some convoluted form of "power". Is he referring to 'Ki', Scott? I guess it could come from the ground, but I always understood it to be more of a controllable "aura" of energy and power all around you. I'm not the greatest person to explan this...maybe someone else could elucidate for me. Jana<<< Neither of the two TKD schools I have attended have discussed ground strength or ki, but I've had some exposure to it through my interest in tai chi chuan... In tai chi, one learns that power "starts from the ground, is controlled by the waist, and is expressed through the limb (i.e., the hand, foot, or even shoulder or elbow)." To my mind, this is not really a ki thing, but more of a body mechanics thing. Check out http://www.rats.demon.co.uk/internal-strength/issue-1/how-to.htm for an interesting article about this. However, as one relaxes and visualizes power being stored in one's 'grounded' foot (i.e., when being pushed), then released back up, the idea of ki comes into play. As I understand it, ki is basically bioelectric energy that naturally circulates through the body via channels/meridians. By focusing with the mind on this circulation, one (in theory) can learn to direct this energy, so that it complements the basic body mechanics to form a more intense expression of power. Here's a funny, simplistic story about ki: One time, an (I think) aikidoka wished for his sensei to demonstrate ki. The master agreed, and stated that he would move "that spoon on the table" with his ki. As the student eagerly watched, the sensei simply moved the spoon with his hand. The student was perplexed, but the master explained that without ki, he could not accomplish the task of moving the spoon. Obviously, Western science would provide a different explanation, involving neurons, muscle contraction, hand/eye coordination, etc. However, from an Eastern perspective, one says that "The spirit (shen) forms the intention, the intention directs the ki, the ki guides the body..." Interesting stuff, to me, anyway. I've only been in it a few years, but have taken a few baby steps in this area, and I have experienced some of the things mentioned in the article, so I keep pushing (pardon the tai chi pun)...8?) Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:25:42 PST Subject: the_dojang: Burnout Hi I was just wondering if any one out there has had any experience with burnout....> My instructor and family and people I train with seem to think that it's going to happen to me so I was just wondering....> Thank you - ---------------------------- Burnout takes many forms and comes from many directions. While others may think you are showing indications of burnout and you should certainly take this time to reassess yourself; only you know for sure if you are experiencing it. So what's your body and mind telling you? It is dangerous to compare yourself to others. They aren't you. But all advice should be listened to and then acted upon or dismissed. With burnout as with many things in life we look for the one source or situation creating burnout, the simple solution. Actually I think the reverse is true. There is never one source for anything. It's always multiple factors. If you are experiencing burnout it is probably not just from your practicing or over practicing the martial arts but from your participation and activity level in all things you do in life. The question is whether you can tolerate the pace you have set for yourself. Many people (the extroverts) actually thrive on increasing their level of activity and communication with others. It feeds them. When they don't get it they almost get lethargic and depressed. The quiet ones that are typically an introverted type need to pace themselves and while at times their energetic level exceeds all rational expectations they do need their quiet time to recuperate and prepare for other activities. We all have both of these tendencies. And the old ying/yang saying...balance is everything and necessary for an optimal life. Achieving it is the hard part... Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:41:36 PST Subject: the_dojang: Female/Male Sparring It seems some guys don't want to fight with me because they were taught not to hit girls and one guy who was a much lower rank said he just couldn't take getting beaten in a fight by a girl regardless of rank. Any comments on this? Any of you women had similar experiences? Or do any guys want to share their feelings about sparring with women? ____________________________ Hmm now why is it I never had this problem Guys never had problems sparring with me and if anything usually got too aggressive and I dearly paid the price with physical injuries and I'm not talking a few black and blue marks. When I started martial arts there were hardly any women's divisions available at tournaments so I frequently got thrown into the men's divisions. It never seemed to bother any guys to rip on me. They were there to win. I suppose some of them thought I would be an easy match since I am a physically smaller female. They were wrong but alas they more often then not won.!! Ugh...All that work just for the experience. A friend of mine called it my "character building" times. Too funny - Not! Perhaps it was attitude! Haha my attitude. But bottom line is this for me, whether in class or in a tournament nobody hesitated to spar with me. It as never an issue for me or my male opponent. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Dylan Walsh" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:55:02 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: (Shots to the groin) RE: The Chicken Dance >From: "Jamaica Power" >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:57:13 PST >Subject: the_dojang: The Chicken Dance > >Well this is a term affectionately used by a friend of mine for a hit to >the groin. I figured it was a polite and proper way to address this age >old issue for men and women. > >Now whether we're in class and out of the blue we decide to show a few >sparring techniques to a color belt without any type of protection, then >zam, wham,,,and ouch,.. we're down....or > >we're at a tournament and in the fast and frenzied pace just as we're >airlifting off the ground for a great devastating round house the >opponent comes in with an equally devastating blow...to a very sensitive >area. During class or a tournament, even if wearing protection, blows to the crotch are dangerous. Protectors could buckle or crack, or even worse be displaced (which can be worse than no protector, for guys). Even if the 'sensitive area' is unharmed, strikes to the pelvis (the blow being passed up by the cup) can be harmful (damages blood vessels), or even lethal, apparently, if a bone breaks it can sever an artery. If your doing self defence, shots to to groin should not make any contact, and in sparring people should be warned if they aim for/kick below the belt. >And I'm most serious please...it just seems the method for treatment >seems always to be in question and everyone seems confused as to what to >do. This includes the person in pain, the referee, the spectators. > >I know the men on this forum would probably debate the issue if I even >suggested that it is equally painful for a woman to get hit here but >that's another issue. I read some women saying that it is not an awful lot more painful than getting hit on the leg for example. It may only be very painful with a certain contact. Others describe extreme pain. I saw a girl get hit there at a tournament, and while she didn't collapse, she was limping. No body is in a position to compare, so who can say, but have you ever been immobilised on the floor, by a groin shot? The male experience is well described, from self defence, movies..., but what about the ladies? In any case, unless the mechanisms for the pain are the same for men & women (any medical experts?), the treatments would not necessarily be the same. >Seriously now, what is the best, most effective method for healing and >getting rid of the pain...for men and women. I have been told to kneel >down and breathe deeply for a few moments, then I have seen other >competitors shake it off. etc. I've seen ref's insist the player get >on with the match when they are still in significant distress, others >are told (at competitions) to go sit by their coach in the chair for a >few moments. But I've literally seen some individuals almost pass out >from this nasty event. Thanks. > >Jamaica >jamaica_power@hotmail.com I think the 'shake it off' method may be male specific. Dylan Walsh dywalsh@indigo.ie ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:57:59 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Profound Impact Scot wrote: 2. Another simple concept that I did not learn till later in my martial arts practices was also very simple. "If you don't want to get hit, don't be there." This goes back to the concept I learned as a child about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, I never applied it till much later. I still screw this one up all the time. I agree with this, now I remember it was one of the first things I learned that really helped me too. Attack at 60mph, retreat at 100mph. "if your not there, they can't hit you". Helped me tremendously. Dennis ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:46:48 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: AJ Woodburn I wish to express my thanks to everyone who posted a defining moment for them in their Study. AJ Woodburn's essay was, to me, what a defining moment should be about. The love of training and the image of oneself doing the best they can. AJ said that he finished third, but that did not matter. This is the type of attitued that the Martial Arts needs more of. The Arts are not about what rank is achived, or what place you came in. The Arts are about bettering ourselves, learning, and training. I have offerd this before, and many people responded. I have an essay by Master Hee Ill Cho, that talks of training vs testing and the students of the Arts. It was writen by a TKD Masetr, but could apply to any Art. It is a piece that has given me guidence and goals that are more important to me then the rank of the next test. If anyone would like me to mail them a copy, simply E-mail me at JSJozokos@Aol.com with the subject being 'Master Cho's Essay' Jonathan Jozokos 2nd Red Tae Kwon Do ------------------------------ From: "Stratton, Sam" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:12:53 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Instruction/Gender Greetings, I would like to chime in on the instructors gender issue. I have been taught by both genders I have found both good and poor instructors from either sex. Notice if you will though, when you are instructed by a truly gifted teacher gender does not even appear. Normally I would be admiring a nice feminine form, instead I'm trying to glean every nuance of movement and how to apply it to myself. It's not so much gender as competence. Another question for those who instruct is do YOU treat students differently according to gender. If you do then do you see intrinsic differences between the sexes or is it fear of misunderstanding? The only difference that I have noticed in our dojang is that the women ask for more self defense "what if" scenarios about neutralizing attackers (I know, I'm an experienced crash-test dummy:) ) Sam Stratton Bo-Dan WTF Seattle WA ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:28:48 PST Subject: the_dojang: Source of power >He explained how power came from the ground. That if one focuses >power directly from the source to the destination it is much more >effective than twisting and turning in unnatural ways to generate> >some convoluted form of "power". - ------------------------------------ Lots of different ways to conjure up power. It could be physical, mental, spiritual, or a combination of these. Since your instructor referenced the power that came from the ground, one possibility including gravity and stabilizing yourself would also be hip torque. A torquing motion can recruit the body's mass into a circular motion. The total motion would start at the ground and moves up through your body. So it sort of tarts with the initial push from your feet, which then powers up the legs which also should generate into your hips (and the rotation of the hips) and then the hips drive the trunk of your body and then into the entire body.. So instead of just kicking or punching with the fist or leg it becomes a whole body punch/kick which generates significantly more power and stability. Websters Dictionary definition of torquing is: Physics - a measure of the tendency of a force to cause rotation, equal to the force multiplied by the perpendicular distance between the line of action of the force and the center of the rotation. Popularly, the force that acts to produce rotation like in car. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:25:06 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #35 Jamaica asks: I haven't really seen much difference between the female or male instructors in my life when it comes down to cases of incredible knowledge/skill or ignorance/delusion. But here are a few of the best and worst of my own experiences. My first instructor as a child was a relative--one of my aunts. I never really got the feeling that she did anything differently from the men I saw teaching. She was an incredible technician, and as the lone kid in the class --this was before kids classes became popular--, I'd usually get sick and have to run to the toilet between the halfway mark and the end of class! At the end of those classes, men -and- women would be beat & dripping w/ sweat. Honestly, I really hated going to classes every day for the first few years (I was too young and had played too many pranks to be allowed to stay alone in the apartment), but finally came to love and appreciate what I was learning. I'm sure it was her relentless, sincere, kind-hearted teaching style coupled with the drive to persevere rubbing off on her little neice. Auntie Mary was my first role model! The worst experience I've ever had with a sister martial artist was after moving back w/ my parents to another town and taking up Tang Soo Do--an art which I still practice and love (Soo Bahk Do). I was about 13 at the time, and was sparring a taller, 30-ish middle-class woman named Robin. I had a green belt in this school at this time, and Robin was an advanced student who had just been promoted to cho-dan. At the time I was very shy, and more of an evasive fighter, having very well-controlled techniques, usually making minimal contact. Robin kicked me a couple of times--I mean, really hard & obviously full force. I assumed that she was trying to tell me that she wanted me to use more contact--after all, this was how we communicated at my previous school! So of course, I let my next kick go with about the same lack of restraint she had been showing. Robin dropped her hands, stood up straight, fixed me with a reee-ally peeved look, and said "do you want to start something?". I dunno--maybe she was having a bad day. I managed to purposely unhook my booties, and feighned adjusting them until we changed partners, which thankfully didn't take long. I've never figured to this day what that woman was thinking, although it took me a while to get over the confusion of the incident and of course, that time tested favorite, --whether deserved or not--, guilt. I do remember even at that age being mildly concerned with the fact that someone unstable held the cho-dan rank at this school. . . At the schools at which I practice now, men still outnumber women, but at rough estimate there seem to be just as many gung-ho gals as guys. Jerks in general a very scarce, as a matter of fact nobody really comes to mind right now--all I can think of is how good humored and sincere my classmates are, and how lucky I am to have students of my own who are open minded and sincere. - --C.J. jgroff1@san.rr.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:50:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #37 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.