From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #38 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 21 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 038 In this issue: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Laura Kamienski" (fwd) the_dojang: Lawsuits & Victimizers. . . the_dojang: Is it love..or just a boot to the head? the_dojang: Re: ki the_dojang: Behavior at Tournaments the_dojang: Re: Ki the_dojang: Women's Tournaments the_dojang: RE: Sparring Women the_dojang: Behavior at Tournaments Re: the_dojang: Is it love..or just a boot to the head? the_dojang: Re: First Aid for your Attacker/CPR the_dojang: Re: Good Samaritan Law-MI the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:53:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Laura Kamienski" (fwd) Forwarded message: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:11:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Laura Kamienski" ] From: "Laura Kamienski" Subject: Re: Words >From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> >Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:47:44 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Words >What single event in your entire martial art training, teaching or experience, has had a profound impact upon >your person that you feel the effect of even to this day? Wow!... I was going to reply that it is impossible to narrow this kind of answer down to one event as they are all connected. But after consideration, I decided there is one event that effected me so profoundly that it has to be the answer for me. It was without a doubt, meeting my instructor. When I began my training four years ago, my instructor was in the hospital undergoing his second bone marrow transplant. The first had failed and this was his last and final chance to beat the leukemia he had been fighting for several years. My original instructor then, was one of his students, a second degree black belt. I still think of him as my 'first instructor' as I made it to green stripe (7th gup) with him. He is a great teacher and a wonderful friend. For the first six months or so of my training many people thought my instructor wouldn't make it. Even the doctors didn't give him a good prognosis. Through luck, providence, or the will of God, he made it through the second transplant and treatments! At that time I was a gold belt and I decided I should meet the man I had heard so much about. I had never met a martial arts 'Master' before let alone a 'cancer patient'. I didn't know what to expect. But I started off to the hospital which was over four hours away. I took the first board I ever broke to present to this man I had heard so much about. (I later found out that dirty, germ ridden boards are not a good present for someone with a weakened immune system, but what did I know.) Before visiting him you had to scrub up with antibacterial soap and at that point touching him was still out of the question. I walked into his room with butterflies in my stomach. There in a hospital bed sat 'my instructor' looking small, weak and tired but with a huge smile on his face nonetheless. He welcomed me and I soon understood why I felt so proud to train at this man's school. He still smiles more than anyone I know! :^) Much to my surprise my first instructor was there visiting as well. This was a neat surprise as he was able to tell my instructor more about me and my training and made the visit all the more dear. At that point his prognosis still wasn't very good. I've been very lucky in my life to have never lost anyone important to me and I decided that I simply wouldn't allow myself to become close or attached to this man in any way. I convinced myself that I would learn as much as I could from him without developing any attachments. HA!!!!! Since then, he has become one of the friends I most count on and who I hope knows can count on me. I would do anything for him or his family. I love and respect them deeply. So, meeting this brave and amazing man was the most inspiring and pivotal experience in all of my training so far. For me, he represents the very nature of the tenets of perseverance and 'indomitable spirit'. I am very fortunate. He has now made it past the two year mark, which is the mile stone for this sort of treatment. Last year, I and many others of my school had the incredible experience of watching him test for his fifth degree rank. NO ONE EVER thought they would see this. As you can imagine we all cried like babies. It brings tears to my eyes remembering it now... Laura lkamiens@ptd.net lkamnski@bucknell.edu http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:48:55 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Lawsuits & Victimizers. . . <> << If you leave the scene and leave the guy on the ground, there is a very real chance that you will wind up in jail charged with manslaughter or worse if the bozo dies. The point of view of our screwed up legal system is that, if you incapacitate him, you're responsible for him. How's that for justice?>> The first thing you need to do is contact a lawyer who can help you prepare a suit against your attacker--claiming among other things, emotional distress and prolonged trauma resulting from the ordeal. Your goal should not be to "win" anything--merely to have in place a defensive measure which could serve to counteract any action on the offender's part. One or two trips to a phychiatrist or certified counselor to discuss your newly christened fears/phobias of going anywhere alone now, using public transportation, etc. can help solidify this in the aftermath of a really bad attack, whether they're fact or not. Dishonest? No, self defense & insuring your own chances for survival--unless of course, you want to subsidize a would be robber/rapist/what-have-you for a significant period of time which will probably leave your own family scavenging for necessities. Just my own "break in case of fire" plans, thought I'd share. . . - --C.J. ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:39:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Is it love..or just a boot to the head? Well...everyone seemed to enjoy my last offering to the Digest so much...I've decided to stay in the same vein (and out of the politics...its safer that way for me) and pursue another interesting topic I think we can all enjoy. As a matter of fact...Mr. Dakin Burdick gave me the idea for this one from his last post. So here goes: What real life experiences or actual knowledge do Dojang Digesters have of Love in the Dojang? Anything is fair game here folks...from ones that went bad to ones ongoing to ones that culminated in marraiges. Let's here it. Also.....I think it goes without saying that guys in the martial arts would love to meet girls who also love the arts....but what about the female perspective here? Do girls in the arts also want to meet guys into the arts? Have you women faced any humorous or irksome episodes dating non-martial art men? Hope this post keeps you busy and thinking. Look forward to the responses. John Hancock ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:03:55 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: ki scott wrote: 'Ki' would be considered a method for focusing the energy. scott, it is my understanding, fwiw, that ki/chi/qi _is_ the energy. melinda ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:09:24 PST Subject: the_dojang: Behavior at Tournaments Hello All. My friend has come to me asking about how best to get "people" [kids, parents and sadly some masters] to behave better at tournaments. I have my own opinions of course but would like to hear what has worked for others. I havenever seen a master behave inappropriately but boy some of the parents I have seen. They are usually worse than the kids! Thanks,Dawne _______________________________ Well I've seen all of the above including masters. I've seen masters hyperventilate, swear, attack refs, try and circumvent the rules, you name it. Some believe the rules are for everyone else but then there are people like that all over the place in every occupation. Yep, parents can be obnoxious also. Some knowingly, some not knowing what the expectations are. So my question would be whether your friend is running the tournament or participating in it as a coach or an observer. The levels of responsibility and the actions vary depending who you are. If you are in charge of the tournament you set the tone from the start. Announcements, monitoring the tournament, outlining your expectations and challenging those that don't abide by the rules. If you're a parent standing next to another parent well good luck. And this is where tools of communication and conflict resolution come in handy. Assess your opponent before approaching them or your child will be fighting in the ring while you're sparring outside the ring. Children are children and obnoxious behavior should not be tolerated but if it is an MA child then ideally discipline and instruction should come from the parents and the instructor or the next in line. I don't have tolerance for unruly, misbehaved children but usually just talking to them or shooting a "look" their way does the trick. This is another area I would tread lightly on. Ever go to a grocery store where kids are acting like brats. I'd be really careful saying something to a child if it's not your child. However a referee is certainly within bounds to say something. So my feeling is it depends on your role at the tournament. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:26:53 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ki >>>Scott said: Ki' would be considered a method for focusing the energy.<<< Hmmm, interesting, this is the first description of Ki as a method that I've come across. As I mentioned in a related post, I've always understood Ki/Qi/Chi to be energy, which is focused via intention (developed using chi kung/qi gong, or expressed with the 'help' of a kihap/kiai). >>>Where you push from, usually the ground, would be the source of power.<<< Interestingly, one can give the appearance of power without even pushing. By establishing a 'ground path', the harder one pushes on you, the more they 'bounce' away. This is similar to standing up straight and pushing on a wall or post. Does the wall/post exhibit power? Nope, it is simply rooted such that your pushing is 'returned' to you. This is fun to play around with with a partner. Relative to Korean Martial Arts, I've asked about Ki development, and was surprised at the responses I got, which were basically that meditation was taught, but Ki development (esp. in conjunction with the techniques that were being shown) was not emphasized. This particularly intrigued me with respect to HAPKIdo...8?). Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:01:20 PST Subject: the_dojang: Women's Tournaments Does anyone know of any "all women's" tournaments out there or maybe two or three of them. I'm aware of training camps, workshops, etc but not female exclusive tournaments for all age groups of women. I am interested in providing a tournament of this nature someday maybe in the not so far future. Just pondering right now. Would be absolutely delighted to get some input (pros and cons) about this. The tournament would also be a workshop/training opportunity depending on the number of participants. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:44:38 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Sparring Women > It seems some guys don't want to fight with me because they were taught > not to hit girls and one guy who was a much lower rank said he just > couldn't take getting beaten in a fight by a girl regardless of rank. > Any comments on this? Any of you women had similar experiences? Or do > any guys want to share their feelings about sparring with women? > ____________________________ > > Hmm now why is it I never had this problem Guys never had problems > sparring with me and if anything usually got too aggressive and I dearly > paid the price with physical injuries and I'm not talking a few black > and blue marks. > > When I started martial arts there were hardly any women's divisions > available at tournaments so I frequently got thrown into the men's > divisions. It never seemed to bother any guys to rip on me. They were > there to win. I suppose some of them thought I would be an easy match > since I am a physically smaller female. They were wrong but alas they > more often then not won.!! Ugh...All that work just for the experience. > A friend of mine called it my "character building" times. Too funny - > Not! > > Perhaps it was attitude! Haha my attitude. But bottom line is this for > me, whether in class or in a tournament nobody hesitated to spar with > me. It as never an issue for me or my male opponent. > My wife and student absolutely HATES people taking it easy on her, and hates it when she is partnered only with other girls. (When visiting other dojangs, I partner her with anybody, as I do with all members). But the one thing she really hates is at gradings, she wants to get in there and beat up the men, but tends to only get partnered with other girls. She says she really likes sparring me because I don't hold back on her (I can't afford to, she'd beat me up! :) she says most other guys treat her "like a girl" when sparring and it frustrates her "how can I learn to defend against someone who wants to harm me, when everyone in class doesn't want to pressure me?" Except she often says I "scare" her because she sees this big wide lummox bounding around her and charging at her, she does well though, she defends well and only says she gets "scared" out of class time. Oddly enough, she's one of the very few students that seem to be able to get around my sparring style, and I'm sure it's not from familiarity. It must be shes a good learner and moves well. Just thought someone might be interested in these perspectives. Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:37:15 PST Subject: the_dojang: Behavior at Tournaments GM's are also people. I've attended most of the USTU Open Tournaments from the very beginning when they were held at OTC at Colorado Springs. I can remember one year when a GM became so incredibly outraged that he not only jumped into the ring and yelled and yelled, but laid hands on the referee. It took everybody by surprise, and so it should. It was the first time that I saw all referees band together. They all walked over to the bleachers and sat in the bleachers and demanded a formal apology from the GM himself. It didn't happen. What happened is that a messenger was sent. This was unacceptable to the referees that were absolutely mortified at what happened. Eventually it worked out in a compromise and so were the beginnings of a closer unit of referees. I believe they now call themselves T.R.U.E. (Taekwondo Referees United For Excellence). Of all the GM's that I have had the pleasure of learning from and working with I take this opportunity to compliment: Mr. Koang Woong Kim (Kenosha, WI), Program Coordinator, Division of Educational, Certification and Standards Affairs. GM Koang Woong Kim used to be the head of all of the USTU referees. I have never met a more dignified professional GM. His family is incredible. My utmost respect goes to this man and his family. The USTU should be honored to have him amongst their ranks. Of all individuals I have trained with in many different martial arts disciplines this man stands over and above all of them. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:23:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Is it love..or just a boot to the head? >Anything is fair game here folks...from ones that went bad to ones ongoing >to ones that culminated in marraiges. Let's here it. Also.....I think it >goes without saying that guys in the martial arts would love to meet girls >who also love the arts....but what about the female perspective here? Do >girls in the arts also want to meet guys into the arts? Have you women faced >any humorous or irksome episodes dating non-martial art men? Ok. But lets not turn this into another 'romance in the dojang' thread. There are examples of that happening elsewhere and we don't want to also lose people over a long non-martial-arts related thread. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:55:31 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: First Aid for your Attacker/CPR I am very curious to know what our responsibilities are to our attackers. I am a First Aid/CPR instructor with the Red Cross and with the Heart Association (which will be coming out with a First Aid course this year, the manuals are already printed). I am also a Firefighter and an EMT outside of the Fire Dept. I know that once I start care on a patient (on duty and off duty), I cannot stop care until relieved by an equally or higher-trained person. It would be called abandonment. If I try to treat a patient that does not want treatment, that would be battery. Many students ask if, after taking a First Aid/CPR class, they are responsible to stop and help an injured person. In Hawaii, as well as many (if not all) other states, we have the Good Samaritan Law. In Hawaii the public is not responsible to stop and help injured victims. As a "trained" rescuer, when I am off-duty, I am not responsible to stop and render aid to injured victims. I understand that in some parts of the mainland (States) "trained" rescuers (Firefighters, nurses, EMT, Paramedic, etc.) are required to stop and render aid. How this applies when we are the ones being attacked, I do not know. I can share this: Included in First Aid/CPR classes are Scene Safety and BSI (Body Substance Isolation). Scene Safety means that personal safety is first and foremost. If the scene is not safe for you to be there, then don't go there! If you do not have the proper BSI (at the very minimum: rubber gloves and eye protection), you should avoid all bodily fluids. Another "out" is if we are too exhausted to continue then we can stop care before being properly relieved. After "taking care" of our attacker with some well placed kicks, we may have just enough energy left to call "911," which is rendering some type of aid. Thanks....Mark ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:09:49 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Good Samaritan Law-MI John Bennett wrote: "A person cannot be successfully sued unless they perform the techniques in a manner that is "willfully and wantonly negligent". That doesn't mean you can't be sued. ...Most states have Good Samaritan laws designed specifically for "persons licensed in the healing arts". They work the same way." John is correct. I looked up MI's Good Samaritan law today-MCL 691.1502(1) - -"A Physician...who in good faith responds to a life threatening emergency or responds to a request for emergency assistance in a life threatening emergency within a hospital or other licensed medical care facility, shall not be liable for any civil damages as a result of an act or omission in the rendering of emergency care, except an act or omission amounting to gross negligence or wilful and wanton misconduct." Did not have time to see if same would apply to nurses, P.A.s, or others, but it is clear that John Doe is not protected by the law, but then, in MI, John Doe has no duty to render assistance. Hope this helps. Peter M. ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:49:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #38 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.