From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #66 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 2 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 066 In this issue: the_dojang: "Making Your Art Street Effective" the_dojang: Older Sparring the_dojang: Re: United Tae Kyon Federation the_dojang: MA predicitions for 2000 and beyond the_dojang: Re: TAGB the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #65 the_dojang: the_dojang: Aloha Online News (fwd) BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Carsten Jorgensen (fwd) the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:37:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: "Making Your Art Street Effective" Our school teaches Hapkido and is oriented 100% to self defense. We have experimented with a variety of techniques/methods to make training more realistic. The examples given in this post assume that we are past the talks about awareness/avoidance that should be given so that students learn that the very best defense is to not be where trouble is. We are now at the point where the "fit has hit the shan". Generally students are reminded that a hostile aggressor will not play by the rules and that the student should be prepared mentally to do whatever is needed to escape and/or control the attack. We teach techniques and we teach "fighting". When teaching techniques, we strive to have the student understand the physics of the technique and the specifics in how to best apply it. We always stress that things go wrong in real life and make the student continue to apply a given technique even when they make a mistake (instead of starting over again). This provides a forum to talk about variations in techniques and alternatives that might work if your original move didn't. When teaching fighting, we want the student to appreciate that in a stress situation, they probably will not be thinking at all,and want them to learn as much as possible to react. We teach that it doesn't matter if you used the best technique or if the judges would have only given you a 3.5 out of a possible 10.0 on the score; 'is he down?', 'are you safe ?' are the results that matter. Since some of our students are corrections officers, and others are law enforcement personnel along with many who are neither, we have the professionals share their experiences and sometimes re-enact types of attacks they have experienced or know about. We practice a variety of simulated attacks; punch defense and avoidance (which for female students is taught as "if he tries to grab your hair" as many women are not prone to think in terms of being punched in the face), grabs to arms, wrists, and clothing, Bearhugs and tackles from front and rear as well as other attacks. We have done sessions outdoors in street clothes. We have done defenses in close quarters, for example while standing in a doorway (which limits the range of motion involved). We have practiced what to do if seated in a car and grabbed through a car window, what to do if approached while entering or exiting a car or while trapped between cars in a parking situation. We have done techniques against a wall, and in corners. We practice techniques seated in a chair so we can learn to deal with grabs from beside and behind as well as lunging punches, etc.. One of our most popular drills has the student sit or stand in the middle of the mat with their eyes closed. They have to defend themselves against other students one at a time. The attacking student chooses the attack (which cannot be a kick or punch for obvious reasons). They fight, struggle, grapple until the defender is successful or fails. The defender may not open his/her eyes until the attack has been foiled. In the event the defender fails, we do an instant replay and suggest possible better reactions. At first we only allow techniques to be applied in slow motion, but this changes as the student progresses to eventually executing at full speed with control. We also do separate drills (eyes open this time) involving punches and kicks as attacks. Clearly this doesn't completely simulate reality because the student knows they are going to be attacked, but it gets pretty close. There can be some great moments in class especially when a smaller person throws, pins, chokes or in some other way takes control of a much larger person and everyone realizes that being willing to fight and continuing to do so often has as much to do with winning as any "magic" technique. This simulation is allowed to flow, without any artificial end, though the conflict is stopped when it appears that someone might get hurt. We have done weapons drills versus sticks, knives, baseball bats, and handguns. Again we start slowly and build up. The weapons are real enough. The knives are real but with point and blades ground down. The handguns (both revolvers and semi-automatics) are unloaded, ammunition locked in desk drawer and then students are shown how to check weapon and they are checked by each student before being used in any exercise. Students when executing techniques are judged on how well they defend themselves and whether they showed that they understand tip/blade control and muzzle control (two factors that help keep you alive and with all your body parts intact). They are warned that going up against a weapon is a personal choice and that we advise they do not do so unless there are no other alternatives and/or they fear for their own or someone else's life. While we do tell them that we can increase their chances of survival, we also tell them that it is quite likely that in an encounter with a blade they will be cut and maybe killed. We also tell them that if they have no other choice, it is better to know some ways of fighting and doing so rather than simply being killed. As far as firearms go, they are told that they must be close to execute any defensive technique and that if they believe the other person is going to shoot anyway to run and dodge, swerve as much as possible. This is by no means a complete list of what we do, nor is it supposed to answer all the questions. Hope others will add more to these thoughts. Vic Cushing blueknightpi@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:38:28 PST Subject: the_dojang: Older Sparring Hey, while we old geezers have the floor, what do think we can do to get rid of that obnoxious "Golden Seniors"designation? I think something like "Ancient Warriors" has a lot more going for it. Somehow the GS sounds like we're all using walkers and carrying ear-trumpets.Kerry - ----------------------------------------- Great point! To keep the brainstorming going how about "Elite Seniors." Elite meaning - the best of the seniors. More ideas and names?...Since we already have Executive Seniors, I was looking at this as one step up on the hierarchy level. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Ron Blanchard" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:46:37 PST Subject: the_dojang: Re: United Tae Kyon Federation On Monday, "Sean P. Hawkins" wrote: ... The United Tae Kyon Federation (Master J. Klee, President) curriculum is essentially ITF Taekwon-do. I'm not sure of the etymology of the name... I'll query my instructor and let you know via private email. Thanks Sean, just curious about the Tae Kyon thing! Is Master J. Klee a student of Mr. Pelligrini? Thought I saw someone with a similar name get an award with the ICHF several months back in TKD Times? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:51 EST Subject: the_dojang: MA predicitions for 2000 and beyond ...[snip] > I find another group uses and perceives the dojang as say a "fitness > club" rather than a martial arts school aided by the promotion of the > new m.a. type fitness tapes and infomercials. Doesn't matter if your > school offers the newer programs the overall perception is influencing > all styles of martial arts. [snip]... Jamaica, I wanted to comment on one part of your post. I know exactly what you are talking about b/c everywhere I turn its cardio-this or that popping up in the dojang. It does have the desired effect - it builds enrollment. What I wanted to mention is that my good friend just read an article of MA predictions for the new millenium. I will have her pull the mag and copy it for me. If I understood her correctly it predicts a pulling away from "ecclectic styles" and a move toward "traditional MA instruction". Has anyone else read that article? In light of your recent post Jamaica I am definately going to find it and read it. Dawne No1IDIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Simon Goldie" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:56:01 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TAGB <> Well what do you know! Another lurker in the UK, and there's me thinking that I might be the only one!! I've been doing Tae Kwon Do for just over a year now under a TAGB run organisation. Our style is ITF with tournaments normally being what is known as point-stop sparring. Full padding is required for sparring, although it is supposed to be light contact people occassionally get carried away. As for patterns the TAGB follow the ITF in doing Chon-Ji, Dan Gun, Do-san, etc; a total of 24 I believe. Gradings not only consist of practical testing but also include a short test of the associated Korean language (eg: What is High Section Backfist Strike Called? (Napunde Dung Joomuk Taerigi)). I've personally tried a couple of other MAs in the past; Wado-Ryu Karate (for about 3 years), Lau Gar Kung-fu, Tai Chi and a couple of others but I have to say that Tae Kwon Do is the most enjoyable to date. My Club (based in Bognor Regis, West Sussex) is run by two superb teachers: Lara Kennard (3rd Dan) and David Stett (2nd Dan). Both are very good at keeping the lesson interesting and varied. Classes can be varied, often devoting classes to a single subject; patterns, sparring, self defense, etc. A friend and I were talking about our classes recently and he probably summed it up best. Even though we both go to the same lessons we always spend the next couple of hours chatting about it. It's like going to see a really great movie where you just want to tell everyone about it! Anyway this is beginning to sound like a plug so I'll just leave by letting you know that the TAGB do have a web site (a bit out of date and riddled with spelling mistakes last time I looked) that gives all sorts of info, including a list of clubs in the UK. C'ya Simon Goldie SGOLDIE@WESTSUSSEX.GOV.UK ------------------------------ From: "Dylan Walsh" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:07 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #65 >From: "Jamaica Power" >Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 06:22:23 PST >Subject: the_dojang: Bad Doggy! > >On the subject of animal attacks, I would have thought the best source >of advice would be animal handlers/vets/hunters, rather than MAs. >Nodisrespect, but our arts are geared to fighting humans which is very >different. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Since I am the person that started this particular thread I will >respond to your questions. > >My original question was: with the high incident of dog attacks in the >US and abroad if you came upon a child or an adult that was being >attacked would you help them? And do you think your martial arts would >assist you in helping them. If so, how? Being a person that was >attacked by two dogs I was curious. > >I also found your comment that "our arts are geared to fighting humans" >very interesting. I have always been trained in the martial arts that >they are not only for self defense but self preservation. The distinction being? I would take 'self-preservation' to mean keeping yourself alive/ safe from harm. Defending yourself in a violent confrontation would be a subset of that, which is 'self defence'. MAs deal with the later, rather than how to keep yourself safe from any kind of danger. I don't know MAs schools which teach 'Pick an airline which won't crash' or 'Avoiding food poisoning'. But this is not the point I was making. >I was never taught that the self defense was exclusive to fighting >humans. I am not saying it is or should be. Defence against dogs, would be invaluble. What I was saying is that MAs aren't neccesarily the best sources for information, I would think the best input would come from animal handlers etc. The reason being that the martial arts are techniques that have been developed, tested and practiced against humans, and the rules would be very different for animal trying to chew you to pieces, rather than hit, stab, throw, strangle or grapple you. ------------------------------ From: Mark Brazier Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:00:52 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: I've been lurking (sounds sick, that) around this newsgroup for a couple of months. I live in the UK (though am originally from Ireland)and am thinking of taking up TKD. There is a club in the area I live which is run by the TAGB(Tae Kwon-Do Association of Great Britain). Does this association teach ITF or WTF style ( and what does that mean to me as a new student ?) I hope asking like this isn't offensive to anyone and would be grateful for any advice, suggestions etc. Raymond Don't have much good to say about TAGB. But I'd rather not get nasty about them on this list. If you like, email me on: mark.brazier@hunhcare.co.uk Mark Brazier mark.brazier@hunhcare.co.uk ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:06:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Aloha Online News (fwd) Aloha.... IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!!! A start-up Internet company is giving away free stock - 100,000 pre-IPO shares (similar to what Yahoo did) to 10 lucky winners. That's 10,000 shares of stock each! The website address to register http://www.exit23b.com Please use burt@aloha-enterprises.com as your referral. Thanks and Good Luck! TOURNAMENTS/SEMINARS Celebrity Seminars with Bill "Superfoot" Wallace scheduled in Northern California - February 11th at Smith's Shorin Ryu in Concord (925)827-9946 - February 12, at Pine Waves Karate Academy in Fremont, CA. 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Covers basic information on what it takes and is required to get into the film/entertainment industry! Guro Dan Inosanto Seminar at the Minnesota Kali Group! February 20 & 21, 1999. Contact diana@skypoint.com - Minneapolis, Minnesota Tournament/seminars/special events updates on a regular basis... visit our website periodically for new information www.aloha-enterprises.com and to inquire about our "FREE" links exchange program. PRODUCT INFORMATION NEW! Jimmy Pham White T-Shirts, Tank Tops & Baseball Jerseys! Now available thru our website! Special arrangements have been made so you can purchase your shirt with Jimmy's autograph! Also available Jimmy Pham autographed video's! Supplies limited! CLOSEOUTS! Don't forget to visit our Closeouts! page for huge savings on select products! Just arrived! New shipment of Mizuno Hand Pads! Call now! or order online these high quality & hard to find International Karate Federation approved pads today! 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WEBSITES OF INTEREST www.fiveknucklebullet.com Featuring new and exciting sports products for the martial arts or athletic minded enthusiast! www.ericlee.com Master Eric Lee's extensive website. Learn about Eric Lee's history, his video's, his event schedule and much, much more! ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:46:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Carsten Jorgensen (fwd) You are subscribed as carstenj@dorit.ihi.ku.dk. Please correct. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:13:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [Carsten Jorgensen ] From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Re: KMA history Sorry this is posted from the wrong address again - I'll sign up from the new one tomorrow.... >> Unfortunately the guy don't know much about Korean Martial Arts >>history. I hope everybody who are interested in KMA history/Hwarang Do >>history would take a look at my letter about his page: >>www.ihi.ku.dk/~carstenj/soh.htm > >I'm not sure I would attribute it to not knowing much about Korean >martial arts history. As you know we've discussed this privately. I >appreciate your comments re Bob's website and his comments, but I'm not >sure I can agree with them. IMHO it is more a disagreement on exactly >who did what when, not about being uninformed about KMA history. It's a new (long) letter, you should take a look :-) I'm afraid it really *is* him being uninformed, of course having an agenda dosen't make it any better. Carsten Jorgensen hwarang@usa.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:49:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #66 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.