From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #70 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 4 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 070 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The aged BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from (fwd) the_dojang: Re: Ring around the rosie the_dojang: kwan rank the_dojang: Re: Masters, Uniforms, and Belts the_dojang: Are Dojangs Too Safe? the_dojang: KHF - Black Belt article the_dojang: Re: Masters, uniforms and belts the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:53:39 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The aged In a message dated 2/4/99 11:43:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, Joan Bostic writes: << does anyone out there have any advice for a first-time TSD student in her early 40's? The flexibility and balance just aren't what they used to be, and I'm having a really difficult time maintaining my balance and getting good height on my kicks. >> Be patient and hang in there. As a 9th gup, you can't have been at it for very long. Believe it or not, flexibility (maybe not like the olden days, but workable enough) and balance will come. Since I started, at 38, my round kicks and side kicks have gone from waist high to head high (not bad since I'm 6'2") with my best leg (I'm now 44). Balance requires work no matter what age you start at. If you are like most, you will see dramatic improvement in flexibility in the first year, after which you will still progress, but at a slower pace. One thing that is helpful is to stretch in the morning every day, not just on class days, concentrating on the areas of most need. (For most of us geriatrics, that is usually the hips, in my experience.) Keep it up. You'll be amazed what you are doing a year from now. <<(Is this a pattern? You date, mate, produce offspring and promptly become decrepit?!)>> It's certainly the pattern I've followed. Although I didn't date, mate and produce offspring in the dojang. ;-) Kurt Rommel tkdkurt@aol.com McLean, Virginia, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:10:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from (fwd) You are subscribed as jberwin@sc45.dseg.ti.com. Please correct. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from [jberwin@sc45.rsc.raytheon.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN)] Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:29:03 -0600 (CST) From: jberwin@sc45.rsc.raytheon.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) Subject: Re: ATA Mastership and Uniforms >The Uniform is white and silk (higher degreed Masters have a gold >uniform). It has a black collar and has the "SongAhm Star" on the back. >Quite nice looking, actually. Mostly true. The gold/yellow uniform is for Grand Master only. All masters have both a satin uniform (special occassions) and regular uniforms (workouts). Brett Erwin jberwin@ti.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:07:39 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ring around the rosie In a message dated 2/4/99 11:43:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jamaica writes: << Does anyone have a good technique to absolutely put an early halt to this type of match. >> I see this a fair amount because, at my size (6'2"/205 lbs), opponents assume (i) I am a linear fighter, and (ii) I am powerful but slow, both of which are unfortunately partially true ;-). What I do, which is certainly not an "absolute" remedy, depends on which direction they are running. If they are circling toward my open side, i.e. in the direction my chest is facing, I move forward into their line of travel, cutting off the ring, and attack with a rearleg round kick. If they are moving behind me, I likewise cut off the ring and attack with a back kick or back hook kick, either of which allow you to adjust your aim and strike hard at an opponent moving in that direction. Because under either scenario the opponent is "walking into the kick" and thus increasing its force, and is most often not well grounded when you connect, after you land one or two of these, they usually abandon the circling, seeing it as counterproductive. In addition, while the running/circling may reduce the number of points you score, it is not a very effective way for an opponent to win a fight. Kurt Rommel tkdkurt@aol.com McLean, Virginia, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:25:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: kwan rank In a message dated 2/4/99 10:43:36 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I understand that typically one's kwan dan certificate will be one rank higher than the KKW rank. For example, a kwan 4th dan will have Kukkiwon 3rd dan. Does anyone know much about this? Thanks. Holcombe Thomas, whose expertise in TKD ends with being able to spell it. >> Is that what they are calling it now? Usually I hear it referred to as "Good for Business" It is so widespread that when someone who is trying to impress me with their rank i flat out ask them "Is that Kukkiwon rank?" One guy here in the state started claiming a 6th dan in 1995. I just found out that the date on his kukkiwon 5th is 1996 and he is not eligible for 6th dan until 2001. Like I tell people in the state who get frustrated with this and the people who have 4th dan after 4 years in TKD - the important people know whose rank is earned/real etc....... And they also know who is not. Ronda J. Sweet 4th Dan Kukkiwon ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 12:29:45 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Masters, Uniforms, and Belts In Kuk Sool Won: Master level begins at 5th degree (roughly 20+ years of study). There are many dobok: All KSW people have a "plain" black dobok (not really plain, actually; the fist logo and the words KUK SOOL WON (in either Korean or English) is on the jacket back, with KUK SOOL (in Hangul) and the Korean flag on the jacket front; optionally, the national flag of the practitioner's country may also be on the jacket shoulder. In general, the width of the black belt denotes the rank of the owner, wider indicating higher rank. Upon attainment of 5th degree, a black belt is given a double-width white belt to signify that they have come full-circle (from white belt to black belt to master) and are now, once again ready to begin learning anew. Black Belts also have a "gold fringe" jacket top wiith WORLD KUK SOOL ASSOCIATION (written in Hangul) across the upper back and KUK SOOL WON (in English) underneath. This is given upon graduation to 1st degree black belt. Instructors usually also have an instructor dobok (similar to the "gold fringe" dobok, sans the gold fringe). Black Belts also have what is called chang goon dobok, or general uniform. The trim on the general uniform jacket identifies the rank of the wearer: silver trim = assistant instructor (1st, 2nd, 3rd degree) silver and red trim = instructor (4th degree) red = master (5th and 6th degree) red and gold = senior master (7th and 8th degree) gold = chief master (9th degree). Typically, chang goon dobok is only worn at formal occasions. "Gold fringe" is worn at semi-formal events, and "plain black" is everyday wear. Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:13:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: Are Dojangs Too Safe? Your use of the word client strikes an issue too. Are we clients? Students? Customers? Disciples? When a school is run as a business, those lines can blur. Sandy - ------------------------------------------------- Absolutely agree that the lines blur. As a matter of fact after you called this to my attention I was surprised I used the word. Hmmmm. I used to always say students. Appears I have been influenced in my thinking. On another forum I asked the question if individuals felt they were instructors or teachers. And with some clarification of what my definitions were of the two, the answers were varied and interesting. I would say across the board, the martial artist is more a client now-a-days expecially when you look at the dynamics of the business and the introduction of new cardioboxing, and other fitness services available including private trainers. For me personally, a martial artist is still a student and a most precious commodity like a gemstone. Something to be cherished and taken care of, educated, and supported as they grow and develop and uncover the many layers of their emerging character. Something very, very special. For a truly dedicated student is a rare breed today. Regarding the use of the word disciple. Well if you go strictly by Websters Dictionary the term certainly could apply, however, I wouldn't use it because the unwritten definition holds too much power and in some cases an association with religion. Now I don't know about you but in my younger days I used to put people on golden pedastals without much critical thinking and this included martial arts instructors. And egad but the last thing some of these instructors need is to have their students referred to as their disciples although I really think some of them already believe it anyway. For me that term should be reserved for most special occasions. Just doesn't seem to fit into modern TKD. Sort of loses something in the translation. Just like the evolution of the word guru into modern day society. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:17:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: KHF - Black Belt article My experiences are similar to Holcombe's. My dojang in Kangnung was affiliated with the Korea Hapkido Federation. Everyone wore the same uniform, and no one had stripes on their belt. So you can not tell if a person is a 1st dan or a 7th dan by looking at the belt. Same for gups. 3rd, 2nd, and 1st gup all wear a red belt, so you can't tell just by looking. There was another school in Kangnung where the Kwanjang wore an old orange uniform, while students wore the white ones like we did. Kwanjangnim of my school said he was just trying to be different, and didn't really think it necessary. I think if you are teaching, and a 3rd dan you can go to the instructor's training in Seoul on recommendation of the Kwanjang you are teaching for. From what I understand, you can open a school and teach without this certification, but you will not be recognized by the organization or the government. Kwanjangnim said if the school did not have this certification, you should avoid it. I also look to Kim He-Young's books for information on the KHF. I'm not really interested in a lot of the politics that go on in the MA community, so the different federations, etc. don't mean a lot to me. I will be glad to answer things I can though. Black Belt magazine just accepted an article I wrote about living and training in Korea. They have not decided what issue yet, and it could be six months from now before it is run. I'll let people know when it is out. There will be pictures of my, my instructors, friends and Yi Saeng with the article. You'll also get to see the school I trained at, and go back to train at. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Brian Karas Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:33:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Masters, uniforms and belts >> . . . at what level (3rd,4th,5th degree black belt) in your arts do you >>> >become ranked as a master? >> >Generally, in the Korea Hapkido Federation, you are addressed as "sabom" >at 4th dan and above. The title is generally translated as "master." I >believe, but am not sure, that you cannot receive a teaching license >from the federation unless you are 4th dan or above. By teaching >license, I mean the desigantion as the head of a dojang (eg, >"kwanjang"). >> >> What type of uniform and belt combo does a master wear? >> >Anthing he or she wants to wear? :-) Actually, while there is now an >association uniform (a fairly new proposition), for many years, dojang >have been free to set their own uniform policies. Most people I know >wear the regular uniform (ie, whatever their dojang wears) and a regular >black belt. Some add stripes for the number of the dan grade. My >school in Seoul does, but mainly for the kids. The kwanjang instructor >and the various sabom wear plain black belts. > In my TKD association you are addressed as Sabumnim at 3rd dan. At 4th dan you are addressed as Bu Kwanjangnim, and at 5th dan and above as Kwanjangnim, if you own your own school. Our uniforms are also color coded according to rank. As a 2nd dan (Bu Sabumnim), mine is white with red and blue trim, and red pants. At 3rd dan it changes to all red. Our belts are embroidered with our name on one end and the association name in Hangul and rank stripes on the other end. You are automatically recognized as an instructor at 3rd dan, and at 2nd dan at the discretion of your own instructor. My 5th dan instructor wears a white uniform with blue trim, and our grandmaster wears a blue uniform with gold trim. We are ranked as master at 5th dan and above. Brian ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:00:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #70 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.