From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #75 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 075 In this issue: the_dojang: Disciple the_dojang: old fogies the_dojang: Korean titles... the_dojang: the 1970's & time the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #74 the_dojang: criticism the_dojang: Liability the_dojang: Solicitation the_dojang: rank the_dojang: RE: Young female athletes. the_dojang: Re: Skipping dan grades the_dojang: Balance and Flexibility the_dojang: RE: Define number of years the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Perry Seto" Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:04:53 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Disciple John, Regarding the disciple thing ...... sorry if I was confusing on that. I think that when the subject was brought up at my club, it was in reference to training that occured waaaaaay before the 70's. The context made it sound like something from early this century or maybe evenbefore that. There wasn't any real clarification but we didn't pursue that topic very far anyway. BTW are the 70's really over? Shoot .... and I missed them. Maybe I just blocked them out mentally. :-))) - -Perry- ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:10:05 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: old fogies Kerry, You're very welcome. I do have to say that I very much resent your comment regarding old fogies and such. I am NOT a dirty old man. Dirty middle aged man, maybe, but NOT a dirty OLD man. :-))) And yes .... that was a great post Syl. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com ------------------------------ From: "aparedes" Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:13:55 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Korean titles... We too use the Korean Titles at our Dojang. It goes as follows: Provisional Black Belt: Bo-Dan 1st Dan Chokyo-nim 2nd Dan Kyosa-nim 3rd Dan Kyosa-nim 4th Dan Dae-Pio Kyosa-nim 5th Dan Sabumnim After the Master receives the rank of Grand Master then he is called Kwanjanim. just my two cents! Alex Paredes Aparedes@gateway.net World Chang Moo Kwan 3rd Dan www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/8129/index.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- One Arrow, One life. Go for it! (JW) - ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE520D.390C1C20 Content-Type: text/html; [ 40+ lines deleted. Please do not send HTML to the list.] - ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE520D.390C1C20-- ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:44:35 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: the 1970's & time <<>> _______________________ <> Whew. I knew this wise-ass comment would bite me in the butt. . . Originally, I made this comment in response to a fellow poster's suggestion that before the "popular era" of martial arts (colored belts, nifty safety equipment, high monthly dues at state-of-the-art schools, etc.), the term "disciple" really referred to a _truly_ dedicated individual who had taken some sort of asthetic vow, and followed his/her teacher without question. This, for some silly reason, reminded me of the campy 1970's "kung fu" t.v. series, with the scene of "grasshopper" at the temple. . .and just reminded me of how much of our collective perceptions of the martial arts are based on idealized fiction & myth. :-! -hmmm. . . But since you hinted at some depth, I'm with you--it doesn't help to live in the past. Keeping the past in mind however, can help determine how we shape the future. If we are mindful of the sucesses and failings of ourselves & others, we can become more mindful (after much analytical picking & critical thought, of course) of how to apply the lessons of others to our own lives. We can also learn to discern for ourselves which "successes" are really failures (like he guy/gal who drives a flashy car & lives in a house on the hill as a result of fleecing students & leading them on about "secrets" s/he never plans to disclose, or a teacher who expects your all, but remains emotionally distant), and vice versa (like the "little guy/gal" who teaches for practically nothing out of a "garage studio" and ends up losing money--but keeps on going out of the sheer love of it all). We are never completely in control of the present or future, other people and environmental factors will always pose a possible influence of unpredictable degree. But we generally control most of the factors that deal with our mental and physical states. We don't get to the pinnacle because the teacher pointed to it--we get there because _we_ walked (or crawled, in some cases) ourselves. While that pointing finger may have helped us notice the mountain the first place, nobody carried us up there. Everyone's trip is different. some fall. Some are pushed! Some have to pull themselves up to begin with! Some turn and go in the opposite direction of the finger--and still find interesting, useful things. Wherever they go, they leave the past behind, but also carry small bits of it into the future. The present? That's our actual conscious time. I'd say the here-and-now, but --d'oh!!-- it, too, has passed. - --C.J. []/:^) ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:50:51 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #74 In a message dated 2/6/99 10:29:37 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << But what would be the difference even if you do eliminate skip ranks but then just fast promote. >> Jamacia, Word of warning you are asking the wrong person what he thinks of fast promotion. Master Silz if from Jido Kwan and they promote VERY slowly. Just warning you :) Ronda J. Sweet ------------------------------ From: "Jana Lise" Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:00:11 PST Subject: the_dojang: criticism I've heard it said, and seen many examples in my life (however short :) that the people who receive criticism are the ones that would benefit from it the most. Hmm, let me try to clarify that. Ok, say that there's two good artists. One has exceptionally good talent and the other is good, but doesn't show as much potential. I've seen times where the exceptionally good belt will receive more criticism, not because he/she stinks, but because he/she's potential is higher and they would profit more from the criticism. I'm not sure if I made myself perfectly clear, that's one of my weak points. Having only received constructive criticism throughout my life I can't say much for any other kind. Anyone who thinks that they even remotely grasp what point I'm trying to make is welcome to comment and clarify for me (and you should also get a medal, understanding me is no easy task :) Jana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:07:23 EST Subject: the_dojang: Liability Okay, a question for all those attorneys lurking out there. Suppose you are a school owner/coach. You take your students to a tournament and there is no medical. 1) Are you liable if someone gets hurt for encouraging them to go to this tournament in the first place if someone gets hurt. Or for not encouraging them to leave when it is found there is no medial? The same person holds another tournament - say a month later. (Hey this is real, it happened here in OK, someone holding 2 tournaments in 2 months that is, and not having medical at the first) 2) Can you be sued if you encourage students to go to the second tournament and it turns out the tournament director did not learn his lesson and provide medical the second time around (even though there were accidents at the first tournament.)? So if one of you students gets hurt, are you liable as you have precedent to know this particular tournament director does not provide medical, or provides inadequate medical? Ronda J. Sweet ladytkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:20:52 EST Subject: the_dojang: Solicitation Okay, we have hit a lot of stuff on skip dans, and circumvention of the USTU President to get them. What do you think of people who openly solicit black belts to get their kukkiwons for them? I have heard a lot about people who go to others and complain about their masters, etc.... but what about all the people (and I know several) who openly go out and offer to get kukkiwons for them? Who maybe try to take advantage of a situations here a student and a master have issues to work out, and then here steps in Mr. Fix-IT, who in solving the promotion problem, keeps the master and student from possibly working things out? Ronda J. Sweet ladytkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:27:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: rank OK - my last comments on this subject. A lot has been said about this one and that one who got a skip dan, or got promoted by someone other than their instructor, or tested so early, or uses kwan rank versus kukkiwon, etc....... Bottom line - what does it matter? What does rank establish except where you stand in class? Yes, there are some social issues I am glossing over, but bottom line - if you are confident in your abilities and yourself, what does it matter? And as far as other schools that test faster, etc....... reminds me a lot of my mother years ago when we would complain to her that "so-and-so get to do such and such." and her answer was always "If so-and-so jumped off a cliff, would you too?" Follow your own conscience and moral codes regarding promotion and rank. The people in the martial art community KNOW who has bogus credentials. They know who got promoted because of suck points instead of technique or dedication. They know who is real and who is not. And those who are not, simply are not respected no matter how many yellow stripes they sew on their belt. And their schools are never successful in the long run as the unsuspecting soon have their eyes opened. Ronda J. Sweet ladytkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:38:23 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Young female athletes. > syl > > Great post syl. It's good for us Ancient Warships to get this sort of perspective, it certainly has helped my perspective on the girls in my centres, and their personal issues. Thanks, Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: Ernest Hart Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 00:47:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Skipping dan grades > Dear Mr. Terry, > I am in agreement with you Ray...almost. Skipping rank is impossible ... > except when recommended by an NGB president.... > abuse of the skip dan process was taking place, its availability has been > severely restricted by the WTF/Kukkiwon for the past several years. > Currently, an NGB President such as that of the USTU, the Korea Taekwondo > "recommender," in lieu of merely any higher ranking dan holder signing. S= > What do you think of that, sir? > S.E.Silz Well, looks like my information is a little behind the times. I was aware that it was running rampant in the past, but was not aware that an official policy had been made to stop it. Mr. Terry or Mr. Silz, could you answer this question. What about shortening time in Dan grades to below the Kukkiwon minimum guidelines? It wouldn't technically be skipping grades. Ex: Going from 1-3 Dan in two or two and a half years. I know that I'm picking nits here, but it's a fairly interesting topic, and I appear to be 3-4 years out of date. E. Hart Burlington, VT ------------------------------ From: James Clark Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:50:45 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: Balance and Flexibility Hi gang, Speaking of balance and flexibility .... does anyone have any ideas on specific stretches for the psoas muscles as my hips can tend to tighten up when I do a turning kick (roundhouse) .... any thoughts , suggestions are greatly appreciated .... Thanks James ------------------------------ From: James Clark Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:05:30 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Define number of years Jamaica .... EXCELLENT point ... I guess that in your heart of hearts YOU know what it takes to be a Martial Artist . You have the 'SPIRIT' .... and NO BODY can take that away OR give it to you. It's something YOU developed .. so as for these other people .. their test will come ! James ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:16:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #75 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.