From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #78 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 9 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 078 In this issue: the_dojang: Love at the Dojang the_dojang: Visit to a chriropractor! the_dojang: sandwich criticism the_dojang: Reply to Master Silz the_dojang: Training with osteoporosis the_dojang: Re: Rank, titles, etc. the_dojang: Re: Liability the_dojang: Re: Soliciting the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #77 the_dojang: lots of questions the_dojang: Physical ability the_dojang: half a black belt the_dojang: BUTF 1999 Championship the_dojang: Re: V6 #76: Dedicated Students the_dojang: RE: Jumping Thru Hoops/Jamaica the_dojang: Martial Arts Explorer the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:20:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Love at the Dojang While we are on the subject of relationships in the Dojang, I am fortunate to be in love with my teacher, but we met and dated before my involvement in TKD. He is the reason I started to train and I took to the art with an immediate passion. We train together, mostly he puts up with me "for now" as I grow and get better I fully intend to be more... My point.. I do have one, even though we are holding hands as a couple when we walk into the dojang, when we bow in, I am student and he teacher. I say yes sir, refer to him at his appropriate title and work to set a proper example. I try to work harder than anyone around me to ensure that I am EARNING my progress. We agreed to (as much as possible) separate the teaching from our relationship. If he works me extra hard and I am feeling the pain and frustration of training, it is my workout that is my challenge and not our relationship. Brian has told me that my work ethic is what makes it ok for him to be my teacher, if my attitude was less it would not work. Our shared passion for the arts is good for our relationship, we identify with one another and support one another, for us Karate is not a recreation, it is a significant part of our life. Now on the other hand, we have witnessed instructors that are a bit like "ally cats" when it comes to women in the dojang, this I believe does hurt the school, especially when you see the hurt in a lower ranking persons eyes as they suddenly realize what they have is not a relationship or even a chance at one, just a fling. All is fair in love and war, but for those paid instructors who use their charms and the dojang as another meat market should be told to stop. It hurts people and the school. If for what ever reason, you meet your love at the dojang, then the responsible thing to do is talk over how you will behave in public and that you always show respect for each other and the school. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Delcina ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:44:42 PST Subject: the_dojang: Visit to a chriropractor! All kidding aside, would a visit to a chiropractor be any help for a flexibility challenged person? I don't know, 45 years old, twelve yearsof distance running (never took the time to stretch), hamstrings and lower back are still (after four years) overly tight. I have been stretching regularly for four years, flexibility has gotten much better over the years but all gains are slow to come. I have never been to a Chiropractor, but I have many friends who were successfully treated by Chiro's. I always felt that if I thought I had a need I'd give one (Chiropractor) a chance. I did notice that Chiropractor's took quite abashing during some of the recent Ki/Chi rantsTang Soo!Steve Mower ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You are way too funny.!!! I probably was one of them that bashed the chiropractors and a few of them deserved it. That's why I did the chiropractor/Physical therapist thing. But most chiropractors are now covered by HMO's and PPO's so there you have it. Got you on the age thing though. I'm 48 but look 26 (in my opinion anyway) :) Regarding flexibility..do truly know what you mean all kidding aside. Flexibility challenged. Love that phrase, only because it's true. And hip rotation boy do I know that one.. just a little humor but throw in having a child or two and there ya go.... The pull of gravity changed a few things. Thanks for the lighthearted response but I do have some good exercises. I'm still smiling so I'll save them for another post. P.S. I did the distance running thing too and knew George Sheehan. Sort of changed my perspective on things. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:45:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: sandwich criticism In a message dated 2/8/99 6:51:24 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << A method I had heard of for giving gentle criticism was the "praise sandwich". If you want to correct someone, first praise them on something they did right, then correct them on something that was not-so-right, and then give them something else that they are doing right. Some people may not need this, but anyone who might have self confidence problems can sure benefit from it. Some thing like "Good chamber on that front kick. Make sure you check the foot shape when you hit. Great recovery." And you have to make sure that all three things are honest. >> Sorry - this has been debunked BIG TIME. Please do not do it. The reason is that whenever you have a valid compliment - they will be waiting for the BUT! Whatever you want to tell them they are doing well, all they will hear is the mental BUT. It has been proven that sandwich criticism which was hot many years ago in business caused poor morale. People couldn't take compliments, or they don't hear the criticism. The currently acceptable method is to gently, but calmly let them know what they are doing that needs to be corrected and why. Then let it go. Don't mix compliments and criticisms. Consider the whole teenage self-esteem thread - they will always be looking for the hammer to fall, even when you are genuinely pleased with their performance. Ronda J. Sweet tkdtiger@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:57:10 PST Subject: the_dojang: Reply to Master Silz Dear Mr. Terry, There are quite a few of your contributors who appear to be rather preoccupied with their gup, poom or dan rank, and the ranking of various other people such as of their fellow students, instructors, and people from neighboring schools, as well. This extends not only to numerical rank, but to titles (such as "instructor," "master," or "bu-kwanjangnim," for example), stripes on belts, uniforms with special insignias or meanings, and other methods of martial art rank designations. To these people I offer the following good advice: Don't concernyourself with it...Don't even waste time thinking about it...Forget about it. Use your time and energy to follow your teacher, train with your superiors, and, in general, work harder. Why? Because stripes on one's black belt, "Assistant Instructor's Club" patches on one's sleeve, or special "rank trim" on one's dobok are all pointless ways to advertise something that warrants no advertising. So typical of Westerners, we tend to allow ourselves to get excessively caught up in the external manifestations of rank and the physical paraphernalia of our activity. When instead, we need to eschew all that mumbo-jumbo, and re-direct our energy to the following of our chosen paths. S. Silz +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Master Silz I speak only for myself. I am not reoccupied at all nor do I find the conversations are pointless. Your post much reminds me of someone with a great deal of money that goes to a street person and tells them, money isn't everything. Please.! Just a bit of respect for us that have put our lives into this sport. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:13:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Training with osteoporosis Hey folks, Some background: Micah (my 7 year old) was diagnosed with a long-term managable kidney disease called nephrotic syndrome shortly before his third birthday and has been on large doses of prednisone as a result for the past 4 years. (Think of it this way: it's like diabetes only the kidney not the pancreas and sodium is the thing to watch, not sugar levels. This is way oversimplified, but I don't want to bore folks with details.) He began studying Tang Soo Do (with his doctor's and nephrologist's consent) at the age of 5 and, for a number of reasons, we decided to take a break from training at the beginning of the holidays. Micah wants to switch over to TKD so he can represent America in the Olympics some day and I'm starting to look into some schools and programs around here. Unfortunately, we discovered on Thursday that he has developed osteoporosis due to the long-term prednisone use. (We thought he broke his foot until the orthepedist decided to xray his other foot "to be safe"...after four years of doctors, I know better and wish they'd stope "being safe" and just say, "I think there's a problem.") My focus will be finding out what all this means long-term for Micah and whether we are going to end up changing meds, etc. Where folks here can be helpful is to let me know if specific information about training and osteoporosis (especially you science and med types...). Please let me know so I can read it and pass it onto the myriad of medical professionals that have become part of my close, personal friend list. Outside of the parental concerns (does he need calcium supplements? If so, at what dosages, etc.), I don't want to see my little pi-guy-tummy-hogan-fishy- boy (yes...I really do call him that) have to give up on his dreams. If training would be a serious danger at this point, I need to know so I can help him reshape and modify his plans/dreams/goals without feeling like he's lost something. He's amazed and mystified doctors so far...let's hope he can do it again. Tang Soo! Karla ------------------------------ From: Ernest Hart Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 22:00:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Rank, titles, etc. > There are quite a few of your contributors who appear to be rather preoccupied Or just interested in how other people do things. > To these people I offer the following good advice: Don't concern yourself > with it...Don't even waste time thinking about it...Forget about it. Use your > time and energy to follow your teacher, train with your superiors, and, in > general, work harder. Excellent advice. > our activity. When instead, we need to eschew all that mumbo-jumbo, and re- > direct our energy to the following of our chosen paths. Again, excellent advice. Mr. Silz: I can't speak for anyone else on the list, but I'm not interested in titles, rank, etc. and so on because of some American mumbo-jumbo. I'm the first person to address someone with respect, but have seen a number of "paper tigers". I'm just interested in how other people do what they do, and why they do it that way. No looking for loopholes, turning up my nose at others, or any of that. Just curious. I'd like to think that the majority of the people on the list look at it the same way. Respectfully, E. Hart Burlington, VT ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:41:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Liability Ladytkd wrote: <<) Are you liable if someone gets hurt for encouraging them to go to this tournament in the first place if someone gets hurt. Or for not encouraging them to leave when it is found there is no medial? >> Can't speak to what other states laws would say, but in MI, the answer to both questions might (who knows with juries? :) be that if the injured was a youngster "yes." If older than 12, "not likely." This is because children are presumed to not be able to appreciate the danger. Adults are supposed to have assumed the risk of injury in merely participating (whether or not medical crew is on hand). Anybody from CA or NY ?(like it or not, these are the States usually on the "cutting edge" in judicial temperment). Take Care, Peter M. ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:48:33 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Soliciting Ladytkd wrote: <> My instructor had a 3rd dan student who was recruited by a GM with the promise of a 5th KKW. When he heard about this, his reaction was that wasn't it nice that his 3rd dan was so valuable. Personally, this is America, which means its almost all fair in love and business, and yes, Grasshopper, some people are involved because they can make a buck. People should be more concerned with what they are learning versus what they are wearing. To bastardize (can I use that word on this list?) a Bruce Lee quote, "Certificates don't hit back!" Take Care, Peter M. ------------------------------ From: "H. Wheels" Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:28:02 PST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #77 > >Exactly my point. You then find someone whose moral codes are in keeping with >your own. > >I had a friend who for many years tried to convince me that our instructor's >lack of morals had nothing to do with what he had to teach us. We all know he >carried on openly with young girls in the school - while his wife watched on. >Her argument to me was that this behavior, as well as other things I did not >approve of, did not touch me. If I learned good technique, then what was the >problem? > >The problem was by staying, i felt I was condoning his behavior. I felt he >was making a mockery of the very codes we had to memorize. >Ronda J. Sweet >I'll put my two cents in here---my former instructor was fooling around with students and he had fooled around with students from his former school. He recently was brought up on charges for this. What I found so amazing is some of the parents said "I dont have daughters to worry about so its okay to stay here!" What!! You only worry and feel this is wrong if you have a daughter he might molest. Also got the response "well I dont leave her there alone." Excuse me but this also means what he is doing is okay since he cant get to your child! I knew he was fooling around though I didn't know he was also doing it with kids. I had stayed when I thought it was only the adult females he was making passes at, thought they were old enough to know better. What an eye opener that was!! > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:01:22 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: lots of questions Boy, you all just keep putting more and more questions into my head. So please bear with me while I ask a few of them (and, hopefully, some of you will reply). :-)) Jamaica & I have traded a few emails on this already but I wanted to ask this of the rest of the group. As I have stated in earlier posts, I have essentially spent my entire MA career training at Berkeley - I've only had a reeaaal brief one month exposure to a commercial studio. That having been said, I was wondering if anyone can give me their thoughts on the difference between training in a university/college environment vs a commercial. The UC Martial Arts Program receives its funding from the fees of its members/students. The fees range as follows (all are on a semester basis): $85 for students, faculty and youths, $110 for alumni and $140 for community members. Semesters are 15 weeks long with some open workout time between semesters. Usually one can attend 3 - 5 workouts (or more) depending on rank and emphasis (sparring vs general workout). How do these fees compare to the commercial studios? I've always thought the fees were quite reasonable at Cal. Because the program is under the university's umbrella, the club doesn't have to worry directly about overhead costs, such as rent, utilities, janitorial, etc. (the university does receive all of the fee payments, keeps a large portion for the above costs and keeps the rest in an account designated for UCMAP). My belief (and this is where I am looking for your experiences/opinions) is that, without having to worry about getting enough monthly income to keep a studio open, the head of our program, Dr. Min, can concentrate on the training aspects of the clubs. Not to say there aren't any monetary worries .... we try to send teams to various competitions and so on ..... so we need some funds ..... but there isn't the worry about having to make sure the doors stay open. What do you all think? Second question: How do you determine whether someone is "worthy" of promotion to the next level? I don't have a right or wrong answer in my head for this one. I'm looking for opinions. I've seen, over the years, people who get promoted even though they may not have the best technique or the most power or what have you. Yet, they have put in extraordinary effort and training to get to where they are. They just started at a lower physical level, i.e. couldn't get their sidekicks above their knees as a white belt but could finally get to waist or chest height by the time they take their black belt test. Should they be promoted based on their level of improvement? Thanks in advance for your comments. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:14:09 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Physical ability >Having NEVER been an athlete and >never wanting to be I understand how hard the transition can be. Sometimes I >wonder why I took up MA :-) >Dawne Dawne, You brought up something that we had just discussed in our club the other day. We were saying that the martial arts aren't for the gifted atheletes but for the less gifted athelete. The gifted atheletes will always do well in whatever physical activity they choose. It's the less gifted athelete that can gain the most benefit from MA training. They're the ones that "we" (more senior students and instructors) need to be there for. They're the ones that we can help the most. How about the rest of you .... what are your thoughts? Thanks. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:24:43 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: half a black belt I wrote the following story for possible publication in the upcoming UC Open souvenir program. The working title has been "How I earned 1/2 - OK maybe 2/3 - of a Black Belt. Jamaica suggested that I share it with all of you. Hope you all enjoy it. I would welcome your comments. I'm still looking for an "official" title. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com What is he doing to my black belt?!! He’s cutting it in half!!!! Why is Dr. Min cutting my black belt in half?!! Those were my first thoughts twenty years ago when Dr. Min presented me with half - OK, maybe two thirds - of a black belt. So what’s the story? Here it is. I started my training in Tae Kwon Do at Cal in October 1975 as a wide-eyed freshman. I trained and trained and took my promotional tests here and there. Eventually it got to be time to take my black belt test. That occurred on August 9, 1979. In those days, Dr. Min (Mr. Min then) would often make black belt candidates wait months to find out the results of their black belt tests. Everyone else would get their results but black belt candidates often had to wait ….. and wait ……. and wait. So….. much to my surprise, one evening less than three months after my test - I think it was less than three months anyway - that was a long time ago and the memory is going - Dr. Min called my testing partner and me over to the door to his office (this is when we still trained in Harmon gym). In his hand were two new black belts. The excitement for me grew as he unwrapped the belts and held them up to eyeball them. I remember thinking - "That’s an awful long belt. I think he got my size wrong." Dr. Min called me first, had me come over a little closer , told me to hold my arms up and proceeded to "measure off" the belt. He then disappeared into his office and emerged, a few moments later, with "my" black belt in one hand and a pair of scissors in the other. That is when the panic set in. "What is he doing?", I thought. He held the belt up. He started cutting. "What is he doing to "my" black belt?!!!" "He’s cutting the belt in half!!!" "Why is he cutting the black belt in half?!!!" "What is he doing to "my" belt?!!!" That thought kept running through my mind. I was in shock. Dr. Min soon had two sections of a black belt in his hand. I was still dumbfounded when he handed me the longer section and said, "Tie it." I started to double wrap it around my waist as I had with all of my other belts. He stopped me and said, "No. Just tie it." I still was clueless. He finally took the belt from me, reached behind me with it, pulled it to the front and started tying it for me. I finally understood. I finished tying the belt. Dr. Min looked at it, and me, and said "That ’s the new style." So…… I received the first single wrap black belt ever presented at Cal. And I wear it proudly to this day. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Sanner" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 02:15:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: BUTF 1999 Championship Hello The 1999 English Championship will take place on February 27th. Anyone interested in joining in or just going there to watch should check the website of the British United TKD Federation: www.butf.com Regards, Stephan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:11:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #76: Dedicated Students Absolutely. The worst example I've seen happened about 3 years ago when one of our cho dans was leading warm up exercises for a class in which his wife, a 7th gup, and several other adults and children were participating. Our warm ups consist of a set of calisthenics and dynamic stretching followed by a set of basic strike and kick drills, with a short rest period between the two sets. When this particular rest period had ended, the cho dan instructed the class to line up. Everyone but his wife jumped up and immediately did so. He waited a few seconds, and, when she didn't move from her seat on the floor, said, "come on, get back in line, please". Her response was "I'll get up when I'm d*** good and ready". While this anecdote is a bit amusing on one level, it demonstrates a profound ignorance of the principles upon which martial arts training must be based, not to mention setting the worst example possible for the children in the group. Even sadder, the woman is a school teacher. Fortunately, she no longer trains. Unfortunately, neither does her husband. >I guess my biggest pet peeve is saying yeah or ok or sure or nah to > the instructor. Yes sir/m'am, no sir/m'am or beginning a question > with sir/m'am. There must be some respect that is maintained in the > dojang even if the person who you are teaching is your mother. (I have > trained my mom and she does address me as sir within the dojang.) Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:31:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Jumping Thru Hoops/Jamaica Jamaica, I agree that *continually* requiring one person to do more for the same reward as another is not good. However, there are times when someone needs that extra boost of confidence, that chance to shine, the opportunity to 'prove' that they can consistiently perform at a certain level........ The real difference in what I am thinking is that the 'extras' should be for *that* person to learn and grow in the art. We don't all need the same reinforcement, we are not all at the same level of confidence, self-esteem, respect, talent, etc. Perhaps the little extras are (or should be) the instructor's way of helping that person grow in a manner that the next student may not need. For example: - -Perhaps someone a tad shy could be asked to count out the techniques the class is doing. - -Someone who performs new techniques naturally, may be asked to demonstrate a board break with the same technique - learning control and focus of the technique. - -A high rank may be asked to "overplay" formality/respect in the dojang so that lower ranks can learn. - -One student may perform a sloppy kick, while another student's is almost perfect. Why offer corrections to the almost perfect student? Perhaps as sloppy as the other student's kick is, it *may* be infinitely better than THAT student has been able to perform in weeks, while the almost perfect may be off just a bit that night! - -Perhaps there is a student who regularly doesn't pay attention in class. Calling on them will help them stay focused! I guess I could go on and on (I usually do), but the real thing here is probably the degree and consistency of the picking on certain students. But remember, although we may have all met the written requirements for a certain rank, the martial arts is about MUCH more than just meeting the physical requirements. It is a journey of growth in more than just the physical requirements, which are easily measured, easily seen. Growth of the *person* is, perhaps, a bit more difficult to chart, but equally (maybe more) as important along the journey! As the physical requirements need an instructor to help guide you, the mental/complete person growth also needs examples, a mentor, and yes, perhaps even an instructor to help bring out the best in you! This, of course, is the ideal world - your mileage may vary! In the spirit of TKD......... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com I asked for everything so that I could enjoy life. Instead, HE gave me life so I could enjoy everything. ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:25:23 PST Subject: the_dojang: Martial Arts Explorer FYI - Was just digging through some of my toys. I do mostly one-on-one training and where I train I set up a couple of computers and video tape machines. Aside from having bookmarked some martial arts websites I have also installed some CD ROMS on martial arts for children and adults to explore and learn from. I also have a very large collection of videotapes. For $29.95 the Martial Arts Explorer is probably one of my all around favorites. Comes with a detailed book (companion) which complements the CD ROM. The CD Rom deals with 12 categories of martial arts. You can explore the history, glossaries, pictures,galleries, etc. You can also click on two different disciplines and compare say, TaeKwonDo sparring or forms to Aikido sparring or forms in a side by side interactive video display using QuickTime. Quite a bit of info for the money. Graphics and movie quality are very good. For people in USTU/WTF the CD Rom from Tiger Arts of the Tae Geuk Forms is also very well done and not very costly. Have a bunch more but these are the ones I was reviewing last night. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:39:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #78 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.