From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #87 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 12 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 087 In this issue: the_dojang: Hapkido History the_dojang: Re: Info on Hwang Ki, TSD and MDK the_dojang: martial spirit Re: the_dojang: Hapkido History the_dojang: So Where's the Memorabilia Now? the_dojang: Re: Materialistic possessions? the_dojang: Screensavers? the_dojang: Equality of Skills the_dojang: REminder: dobahks for Sarajevo the_dojang: Re: Comparison the_dojang: Re: Single wrap belts the_dojang: Patterns the_dojang: Relocating: Some compassion for Stacy the_dojang: Cliques in the Dojang the_dojang: Re: relocating the_dojang: Great New Book the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #86 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lacquement Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:42:18 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido History I would like to thank everyone who contributed their information to me in regards to GM Choi's photo and the general history of HKD. I unfortunately didn't really find out any different information than what I already have, but I do appreciate the responses. I am guessing that I will eventually have to come to my own conclusions as there is just not anymore hard evidence than what I already have obtained. I still have not been able to find/purchase Mr. Pranin's Aiki JJ book to witness Y.S. Choi's photo, but I hope to soon. Again, thank you for the responses and I will keep all abreast of any "ground-breaking" facts that I may unturn. Jim ------------------------------ From: John Hancock Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:59:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Info on Hwang Ki, TSD and MDK Jeremy...if you will go to my web site...you will find some articles that give some history about Hwang Ki and the Moo Duk Kwan. If you can get your hands on the April issue of Black Belt...I will be appearing in it with an excellant article on the Pyong Ahn forms that delves really deep into TSD history and my experiences trying to obtain this info. It may be of help. Just...if you use any of my stuff...please give me a reference as the source...OK? Here's the Link to take you there: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/9536/ John Hancock ------------------------------ From: "Sara" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:58:36 PST Subject: the_dojang: martial spirit Perry wrote: >THE most important category - at least to my fellow "old timer", Kim, and me is the column for "martial spirit". To us, if people fail that category, they fail the whole test. Character, effort and attitude FAR outweigh physical "talent" to us. Sure, there are minimal skill levels that you need to achieve for each belt level, but we are much more concerned with your character than pure skill. As I said on one of the posts, a persons level of improvement also weighs very heavily on our decision. Let's face it. Some people just have more natural talent than others. We all start from different base lines. So, for the guys who will never be the quickest or the strongest or have the prettiest technique - character, attitude, effort and level of improvement will move them ahead. That black belt (any belt) counts for more than just physical skill. I think that's awesome, Perry. In my school, our tenets include what we call "indomitable spirit" and it actually has helped keep me going when I'm frustrated. The physical skill or even endurance just isn't where it should be, but *wanting* to have that "martial spirit" or "indomitable spirit," I keep working and pushing. Not sure why it is so important to me not to give up, but I think it is teaching me something I will need in the -rest- of my life *for* the rest of my life. one_sara@hotmail.com "The Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:56:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Hapkido History > anymore hard evidence than what I already have obtained. I still have not > been able to find/purchase Mr. Pranin's Aiki JJ book to witness Y.S. Choi's > photo, but I hope to soon. Again, thank you for the responses and I will > keep all abreast of any "ground-breaking" facts that I may unturn. It is on page 111 of the book edited by Stanley Pranin. ISBN 4-900586-18-8. I ordered it off the web, but can't now recall the website's URL. The interviews with Takeda were mentioned here many issues back. If you go that that website it directs you to the website where this book may be purchased. It is possibly the Aiki News website. Check the search facility on http://www.martialartsresource.com I'd heard of and seen this picture a few years ago, but never thought about the hidden person (actually two are pretty much hidden due to the poor photo) being GM Choi. Guess people see what they want to see... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:52:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: So Where's the Memorabilia Now? We've talked so much about our various memorabilia and possessions; patches, pins, trophies, medals, certificates, belts, etc.. my question is what did everybody do with their stuff??? I'll start... My trophies and medals and wooden plaque awards are in the basement. I have the first board I broke (that was signed by my GM in Korean) framed in a wooden frame and hanging on the wall. Mostly cause it just looks neat! The person that framed it did a superlative job! It's sustained years of travel with me. My belts are all tied ever so proper and right now are packed away as are most miscellaneous items like weapons although at one time I did have them hanging and displayed. When I became sick I gave away to a young up and coming blackbelt and his wife lots of framed martial arts pictures, banners, posters, flags, hats, etc that I had accumulated in my travels. He opened a school and hung them up. I also gave my collection of pins and patches to him. My various certificates are all uniformly matted and framed. My blackbelt certificates are all framed and matted in their own style as are other certificates gathered along the way. I had a big photoalbum of travels but that got tossed in the firebin. I did keep a few. I kept a few framed news pictures and clippings I had of when I first started out, tournament things, etc. I have a huge collection of videotapes, books and CDROMS relating to martial arts. Those are easily accessible. I collect martial arts Tshirt and things like that but I wear those all the time. I have packed in a separate box items from a demo team I used to be on and some work I did with a police department. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "CALLAHAN" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:48:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Materialistic possessions? Dennis McHenry wrote: > Your right Chris!!! Go ahead and remove your wedding ring... who needs > that materialistic thing/object anyway?? > > Yeah right... and let me know what your wife thinks about that :-) I do not wear my wedding ring, ever - and yes I am married, and my wife excepts that. I don't wear it for a few reasons: 1. Found it very irritating trying to wear it after the wedding and could never get used to it. 2. My job makes it quite dangerous to have it on. 3. I don't believe I need a symbol on my finger to show my feelings and commitment to me wife. > Actually, I agree with both of you (Chris and Jamaica). I know > that sounds a little weird. Step outside your little box and think > further than that strip of cloth around your waist or a piece of > cloth sewn onto your dobak..... Do you NOT have *any* cherished > objects that have a deep emotional meaning to you? I sure do have some possessions that I like to keep around... and yes, I do believe everything I wrote in my last post. It is very difficult to live, in the manner I described, in todays society. But I keep trying to improve myself, and I think trying to be nonmaterialistic is one of many roads towards self-improvement. > We each have one somewhere, if from a parent, your child, or a > special friend... and even - yes - a special patch or belt that > was hard earned or given from a very special or meaningful person > (master or instructor). We each have different ways to observe > and remember significant people, events, or memories. Those > shouldn't be taken away from anyone. I don't think they should be taken away. But, I also don't think they should be cherished so deeply that you would be devastated if the award/reward was lost, destroyed or stolen (which Jamaica pointed out in her last post). Also, I don't think people need, nor should expect, rewards or awards for accomplishing anything. I feel the sense of self-accomplishment is all that is necessary. When you started training in the martial arts you probably had a goal of becoming a black belt, once the black belt level is achieved is it the belt itself that is important? No, it's the life changing events that occurred along the road to that goal. Most people wear and flaunt certain things in order to influence or impress others. It's what is inside you and how you perceive things that matters most, not what the person next to you thinks. These are just my feelings - I don't expect everyone to agree. So, I'll step down from my box now. Jamaica, I apologize for insinuating you were too materialistic, that was not my intent. I was just trying to put forth a different perspective. Chris Callahan "Violence when there is an alternative, is immoral; Violence when there is no alternative, is survival" ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:59:43 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Screensavers? Anybody have any idea if there are any Karate/Martial Arts screensavers or desktops out there? We seem to be neglected on most of the shareware websites. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: Joan Bostic Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:13:59 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Equality of Skills "Anyway, what I wanted to ask, was, what do you think of comparing your ability (when in certain belts) to others in that same belt? Does the same belt necessarily always indicate the same level?" Syl, no matter whether you're talking about M.A. or any other skill, people are never, ever on the same level. That would indicate that we can be clones. Every martial artist I've ever watched had differing strengths and weaknesses. The same is true of every manager I've ever worked with/for, every writer I've ever read, the creator of every piece of art I've ever seen. The belt systems mark certain benchmarks that must be attained, but not the actual finesse of each. My instructor admits that, while he can perform them, certain kicks are not his forte. But his skill in other areas is remarkable (and his forms are breathtaking to watch). Is he less a black belt than his peers who present fantastic flying kicks, but perform forms with the competence of a colored belt? With respect to your black belt's comments, they seem rather thoughtless. But, people are not always going to run their statements through a filter before they open their mouths. Things said often come out wrong. You'll do it too. Forgive her for her lack of tact and move on. Only you can determine whether you're working to the best of your ability. This is your walk; teachers can only show you the road; the rest of the trip is up to you. So, be patient with yourself, think how far you've come, and remember that you're still a work in progress. Joan jbostic@mr.net ------------------------------ From: Judi Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:17:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: REminder: dobahks for Sarajevo List Members, please consider sending your old uniforms, books, training materials, equipment to Sarajevo to help those less fortunate than we are in their pursuit of the Martial Arts. The URL below is a link to letters and photos recieved by a newgroup member. The letter is from Nedzad Kapic who is finding a way to join together war torn people through Martial Arts. http://www.acdk.org/ and then choose TaeKwonDo Link If you are interested in assisting Nedzad, please email me directly. I'll be sending a box of supplies when enough is gathered. thanks, Judi cjudi@sprint.net Be the change you want to see in the world. - Ghandi ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:14:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Comparison Syl wrote: << She offered some helpful instructions and said that when she was a green belt, she could do a spinning hook kick, so I should be able to, too. Is that an accurate statement, do you think? Actually, I believe it, since I should be able to do the damn thing after attempting so many... I can do it, but it's not perfect. Anyway. I was wondering what you all thought of that. And also, about being frustrated... I try and train three times a week... I occasionally use a punching bag for short bursts of energy :) and I do practice my spinning hook kick, but I'm definitely not good at my sparring, either. It's just irritating because my friend seems more naturally capable of it all... she has beautiful spinning kicks and has great technique for sparring, yet she trains probably less than half the times I do. *Argh* I wonder if I'm just not cut out for it. Or maybe I'm just a late bloomer *grin* >> Syl, I’ve gotta tell you -- I love your posts. You do exactly what I tell my son to do: write the way you’d talk to people. To respond to your frustration, though, I know it’s true that some people are naturally talented in martial arts. My son can watch something being done with forms or techniques and immediately copy it. He’s also pretty good at sparring (although I think he leans too heavily on talent there and not enough on hard work and practice). Anyway, the point is, he can do nearly anything anyone wants him to do with very little practice. Should you match yourself against him physically? Of course not. Could you match yourself against him in spirit and attitude? Absolutely. Maybe you ARE a late bloomer : ) Maybe one day it will all just “click” and come together. But if it doesn’t? Probably you need to know why you’re in martial arts training and, if it’s a reason you consider worthwhile, just do your very best every time you train. You may never be THE best among all martial artists, but you’ll be the best YOU can be - and believe me, that’s worth a lot. (Pronounced from my mountain of wisdom at the o-o-o-l-l-l-d-d age of 57 ) BTW, last month a guy in our dojang got his black belt. I remember when he was first starting, even up to about 5th gup, he had no sense of balance, and spent a LOT of time on the floor because he’d fall while doing techniques. His BB test was a pleasure to watch. Somewhere along the way, he had gained the physical sense of balance he needed and working so hard to compensate for his early problems had obviously given him an edge in executing the techniques later. Someone on the list recently said getting a black belt is like graduating from high school. Well, everyone in high school is different. But the greatest achievers in high school are not necessarily those who do best in college or on the job. Attitude can count for much more than talent. And you’re not the only one who can ramble on! Sally Baughn CBAUGHN@aol.com BTW, I’d also refer you to the following comment from the same digest: Perry wrote: <> ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:49:28 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Single wrap belts In Poland, ITF black belts are obliged to wear single wrap belts. According to the Polish ITF promotional materials, it symbolises striving to achieve the only objective, loyalty to one master and the "winning by one strike" rule. In the Polish WTF, the only person I know wearing single wrap belt is Master Soo Kwang Lee, Technical Director of the Polish TKD Federation, though in fact I never asked him why... Besides, I know nobody wearing single wrap belts for philosophical purposes. One of my students does, but he is simply so big (16 years old, 110 kg) that he can`t get a double wrap belt long enough for him ;-). - -- Piotr Bernat dantkd@polbox.com ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:59:36 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Patterns I am currently writing a dissertation about the history and development of TKD patterns. In my country, the only systems practiced now are Chon-ji and WTF Taegeuk. I found some information on the older Pyungahn patterns, as well as the ATA style, I also still remember the Palgwe we did years ago. But I am still looking for contact with people who practice TKD patterns other than those mentioned above. I am especially in need of information about the Chung Bong patterns of the Song Moo Kwan style, as well as any other systems I am unaware of. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. - -- Piotr Bernat dantkd@polbox.com ------------------------------ From: Ken Howard Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:40:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Relocating: Some compassion for Stacy > Subject: Relocating: Some compassion for Stacy > Please do not wait before telling your students you have to leave. I went through this with my first instructor. He broke the news by saying "I am looking for a new teacher for you because I moving next week." There was a sense of betrayal, for lack of a better word, because he knew about his transfer long before he told us. We felt he did not care about us or trust us with impending changes in our training. In time we understood his feelings, or thought we did, and came to terms with the loss of him as a person and as a teacher. If he had told us earlier the shock would still be there but there would have been more time discuss our future and to come to terms with the events. I, and others, have kept in contact with him over the years. Please tell your students as soon as possible. It will give you and your students some time to handle the changes. Ken Howard ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:10:35 PST Subject: the_dojang: Cliques in the Dojang Over the years in a few different schools I have witnessed the inevitable cliques. They usually begin first by a couple people that bond because they have certain commonalities. Then a few more friends are made. And this in itself isn't bad but I've seen in some classes where the bonds become very strong over time and then groups start. Sometimes these groups develop an unhealthy competitiveness between each other. I have actually seen some groups surface and other groups quit the school because of the impact it had on the class, with the instructor, on individuals, etc. Am I unique in my observation of this grouping? Has it ever had a negative effect on you as a student or on your school if you are an instructor. Or maybe the reverse - a positive impact? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:15:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: relocating Stacy: I have had the displeasure of starting a school and then having to leave due to career change. What I did was to break the news to my students. I then went to other schools in the area to speak with other instructors to see if my students would fit in (I was teaching WTF style and other schools were ATA & ITF). I then recommended my students to their new instructor. I kept in touch with several of the students for the first year. Unfortunately, I have not heard whether any of them went on to become Black Belts. It was a very difficult time for me and my family (personally and professionally), I truly wish you good luck. Take Care, Peter M. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:15:14 EST Subject: the_dojang: Great New Book Hello all, I'd like to tell you about a great new book. "The Storyteller: The Wisdom of Legend and Lore" written and compiled by Dennis Dallas and Mike Chaet. This book is a collection of stories and fables that have been passed down through the ages. Each story has a moral to it. Some of these I had read before, but some were new. Stories such as the two monks who cross the stream (one carries the lady), The scorpion and the frog (sometimes turtle), the strawberry, etc. One of the interesting things is that the authors ask you to think about each story after you read it and think of what it is trying to teach you. Then you can turn to the back of the book and read the authors' interpretation of the moral. They point out that the lesson you learn may be different from what they learned. "The stories are designed to stimulate thought beyond the obvious." The stories are not long, some only a half page, but all of them get you to think about something. I personally, really like stories like this, and enjoy the book a lot. I know I will look to it again and again. It is definitely a book I will want to read with my children in the future. Shihan Dallas has been teaching martial arts since 1972, and he is one of my instructors. He has been using these stories in his classes for many years. If you are an instructor, especially of kids, you may want to use these stories in class as well. I know Shihan usually will take a couple minutes at the end of class and sit with the kids and tell them a story, and then ask them what they think it means and get them to talk about it. The book is an attractive hard cover book, and the first 2500 are special numbered and autographed edition. You can order this book for $19.95 plus $3.00 S&H I recommend it highly. Please feel free to ask me more about it, Alain Burrese To order Mail, Call, or Fax order to: Club World Publications 335 N. Last Chance Gulch Helena, MT 59601 (406) 449-5559 fax: (406) 449-0110 by fax, please fax credit card number. Name Address City State Zip Phone Please allow two weeks for delivery ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:00:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #86 > > > From: "Perry Seto" > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:32:14 -0800 > Subject: the_dojang: Stuff > > ...snip... > > OK, OK .... what's in a name? I really did like your "Ancient Warriors" > idea, Kerry. But "Chronologically Endowed" has a certain ring to it too. > Don't know if I want to call myself "Chronologically Challenged - I'm > already "vertically challenged". Now ... "Viagra Ninjas" .... hmmmmmmm .... > will viagra make me any taller? lol > > How 'bout "Kick-ass, MF's" :-)) > > Oh yeah ..... you really ARE old aren't you, Chuck? :-)) > Old enough to know better, still fool enough to try anyway.... ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:02:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #87 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.