From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #96 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 17 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 096 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Teaching your own the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 the_dojang: To scream whistle or RUN! the_dojang: Kicks the_dojang: Kukkiwon Prices... the_dojang: which form set? the_dojang: flag dobok the_dojang: Bad testing day the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #95 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #95 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:33:33 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Teaching your own > This is in response to Perry's question regarding the wisdom of > attempting to teach one's children. > > I have avoided trying to give "advice" to my wife as I am sure that way > lies divorce! My Master has also, wisely resisted the temptation to > have me teach her in class. I have, however, tried to teach my > children, both in and out of class, and found this to be very > frustrating. Maybe it will be easier when they get older, but at 6 and > 8 they never seem to give me the same level of attention and commitment > they give to non family black belts. > This is a classic example of "familiarity breeds contempt", we all know how we always seem to hurt the ones we love the most, it all stems from an intimacy with family members that lets you be yourself around them, and if this occurs there will always be chance for conflict (as an aside, I always thought it odd that society teaches us to bend over backwards to be polite and courteous to complete strangers but nowhere as polite to the ones we love, go figure!). Anyway, as your kids see you all the time they are familiar with you and see you first as father and second as senior belt, but the other black belts are always first as black belt, second as friend if they even know them. I teach my own centres and my wife joined and worked her way to black belt amost completely under my wing. I feel I successfully seperate home from dojang and I'm able to give her just as hard a time as I give my other students. Case in point, she HATES public speaking with a vengence, she has always been a more shy withdrawn person, but throughout her training I have taken note of her increased self-confidence and have occassionally been turning the entire class over to her to teach, after the look of horror disappears she gets to work and is quite competent. After class she will fume and swear if I pull that on her again, she will quit, but next time I do it, she does a better job and then again fumes at me after class (because I'm her husband again :). I suppose the lesson to that story is that if she couldn't successfully divorce our relationship at the dojang door, she wouldn't be able to learn as much as she does. I hold a hope she will some day work up the courage to ask me if she can teach because she wants to. Maybe never, but I can hope. > We have had family cram sessions > prior to tests but these often seem more like torture sessions to the > kids. > I'm sure you know this: If they aren't having fun, they aren't learning anywhere near as much. > Doubtless this would have been unheard of in the Korea of old but my > kids at least seem to be either too fond of lead swinging or too scared > of screwing up in front of dad to make this an enjoyable experience for > any of us. > > Would be interested if anyone has found an approach that works. > My daughter will be old enough to start training next year so I am eagerly awaiting the challenge to put my theories to the test. I think that their entire experience with the class and how they treat it from the start will greatly effect their overall attitude to classes until they start maturing and finding it more than just an activity. For instance, I believe the class that allows kids to run around or talk or excuse themselves without asking the instructor, etc, will have a less self-disciplined child, which can lead to inappropriate responses at times, more so with people they are familiar with. If a class is more regemented, showing no preferential treatment and no talking only sitting quietly or actively working out, and showing of respect before talking to senior belts, etc. Then the children will be more likely to treat you as an equal with other people of the same grade. Step one is to show that in class you are first a senior grade SECOND a dad! OK, this is unrealistic, you will always be dad first. but I believe it is the best way to get kids to learn about appropriate behaviour being based on situations not people. If it is common in class for juniors to always bow before asking seniors a question, do they show you the same respect? If they don't, then that could be a starting point. But on the case of your family cram sessions, if they are held in a completely different area, such as out the back of the house, instead of in a hall and in tracksuit pants instead of doboks. Then it seems more a time for fun than study, try dressing the same way as you do at training, outside is probably still best but at least it will be more closely related to how they feel at training and might take it more seriously. Don't forget burnout, if they really don't enjoy the cram, do you think it's of value to them? Maybe drop that rather than run the risk of alienating them from the arts altogether. Good luck for when they reach their teens, especially if they are girls! Please let me know what you try and what works and what doesn't. Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:52:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:17:20 PST > Subject: the_dojang: Screaming and Such > > When I teach self-defense to non-martial art women I will usually tell > them to purchase a large whistle and wear it around their neck when they > go places like parking lots or isolated areas. I also indicate it > should be worn outside their coat or sweater, somewhere easy to access > if needed in case of attack or perceived attack. > > Now I also know other instructors will teach women to scream. My > question is what do you teach them to scream? Is it a particular phrase > or number or just a loud horrendous scream. I've known women whose > vocal cords will totally lock up/freeze in a confrontation, sort of a > panic attack and so the "just scream" doesn't work. Nothing at all > comes out. I have noticed that if they are given something particular > to focus on they can call it to memory and perform whether it's a > whistle or a name or number or some other type of call of the wild. > Thanks. > > In our Sexual Harassment, Assault & Rape Prevention seminars, we teach the students to scream "FIRE!" and also to scream out the foulest obscenities they know. If they don't know any, we'll teach them some. Both of those are guaranteed to attract attention, and that is what the assailant does NOT want. We specifically teach them not to yell "HELP!". People will turn and go the other way if they do, but for some reason, everybody wants to see something burn, so they will head toward someone yelling "FIRE!" > ------------------------------ > > From: CMPorter@webtv.net (Chris Porter) > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:27:51 -0500 (EST) > Subject: the_dojang: Kicks > > Hello, I was wondering at what level( Iam talking Beg/Int/Adv not belt > color or rank) do you teach roundhouse and spin kick. I am asking soley > for the debate that sense they are "hard" kicks to learn should they be > taught early on or left for a more adv. student ? > > The ATA teaches roundhouse kick at 8th grade Orange belt. The first reverse and spin kicks are taught at 6th grade camo belt. We consider orange belts to be beginners, camo belts are intermediate students. > ------------------------------ > > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:25:51 PST > Subject: the_dojang: Historical Lightness > > Okay, I suppose the whole world knew this but I didn't. Was just > reading some history that said the high foot kicking techniques and of > tkd sports and traditional tkd originated from the skills necessary of > foot soldiers to kick/attack an opponent while they were seated on their > horse during battle. > > I've heard that as well. It's a point of huge contention from an historical point of view. Frankly, I think we do those kicks simply because we can; the effort involved to do them correctly leads us well down the path to self-control and self-discipline IMHO :-) ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:06:06 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: To scream whistle or RUN! jamaica_power@hotmail. " Now I also know other instructors will teach women to scream. My question is what do you teach them to scream? Is it a particular phrase or number or just a loud horrendous scream. I've known women whose vocal cords will totally lock up/freeze in a confrontation, sort of a panic attack and so the "just scream" doesn't work. Nothing at all comes out. I have noticed that if they are given something particular to focus on they can call it to memory and perform whether it's a whistle or a name or number or some other type of call of the wild. Thanks." Jamaica, you are Quite Right! When I get really afraid, scared or nervous I loose my voice completely. It takes a lot to get to that point, but I have been there in my life, and actually once last year.. so just screaming isn't a good thing to recommend. Also, folks ignore screams either just minding their own business or not sure what they heard, if was really danger. The Whistle may be ok, but society needs to be conditioned to seeing a whistle as a request for help (like a red stop sign means stop, or yellow yield) that sort of conditioning in order for it to really work. know what I mean? anyhow.. I STRONGLY suggest that people (male or female) try really hard not to allow them selves to be in a position that is compromising. Use the buddy system, etc.. Delcina ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:28:14 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Kicks Chris, My two bits: At Cal the roundhouse kicks is one of the first kicks we teach. That along with front snap kicks and perhaps front thrust kicks. Sidekicks are also introduced but I agree with Mike that sidekicks seem to be a difficult concept/kick for many to grasp. It also seems to be one of the more difficult to perform - at least of the "basic" kicks - front, side, round, back - my idea of basic kicks anyway. I know that sidekicks are getting harder and harder for me as my hips get tighter and tighter. I have found that students have an easier time with the concept and execution of roundhouse kicks. Being more of a snapping motion with the knees instead of the thrust action from the hips, as in a sidekick, it seems to be more natural for most. In fact, when I teach people sidekick, it often looks like a modified roundhouse. Instead of coming out on a straight line the foot tends to come out more on an arc, like a front kick turned on its side. We introduce spin hook kicks at yellow belt level, though many don't "perfect" it for years. ( kinda like me. :-)) Same problem - harder to do as the hips rebel more now.) Hope that helps. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com ------------------------------ From: "aparedes" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:43:40 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Kukkiwon Prices... Now what we have a figure of how much Kukkiwon testing fees are, can we get a figure of how much other non-Kukkiwon pay for their testing fees? I know I paid at least 3 times that for my first Dan comparing to the Kukkiwon. My 1st Dan was $200 2nd Dan $300 3rd Dan $350 What bothers me is that not everyone at my old dojang paid the same. Why the difference of prices? Shouldn't we all be the same? I hope that in a few years when I'm up for my 4th this prices won't double. just my .02 cents! Alex Paredes Aparedes@gateway.net World Chang Moo Kwan 3rd Dan www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/8129/index.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------- " A student will never be over his Master, a well trained student will be like his Master." Luke 6 ------------------------------ From: Mike Heeney Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:00:15 +1300 Subject: the_dojang: which form set? A number of people have asked me which forms we do, that have spin hook kicks early on etc. So, a quick explanation. We are WTF. We start with Palgwe 1 and 2 for white and yellow tip (which everyone bypasses - straight to yellow, but they still have to learn it). Then at yellow we switch to the Taegeuk set, so our black tips do Taegeuk 8 just before switching over to the dan forms. But we (NZ TKD Fed) also do 3 'basics'. Basics 1 for white belt, basics 2 for yellow through red tip, and basics 3 (senior basics) for red and black tip. So, this is the start of Basics 2 North L-fighting L-outer forearm block North fixed R-reverse punch "Kiai!" North R-front kick North R-front R-L-double punch North L-fighting L-high block North fixed R-knife hand strike North R-spinning hook kick <-- there's that good ol' kick :) If anyone wants the 3 basics in full, just let me know and I'll send them along. And Steve - I haven't forgotten the other 1/3 steps I promised... :) Mike Hamilton New Zealand. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~mheeney <-- me/myself/I - Taekwondo - Riverdance ------------------------------ From: Mike Heeney Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:05:25 +1300 Subject: the_dojang: flag dobok Dave Mazor wrote: >Nice thing about AAU tournaments is that they dispense with the "dress like a >ninja or an American flag" Sorry, but I just crack up about that American flag dobok. Sheesh, you yankies... Haha ;) Mike Hamilton New Zealand. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~mheeney <-- me/myself/I - Taekwondo - Riverdance ------------------------------ From: "Perry Seto" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:12:35 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Bad testing day >>Jamaica wrote: >>Did you ever have an absolutely incredibly awful testing day. One of those that you slink out of the dojang with a bag on your head, crawl into a hole and retreat for awhile. Where your stomach is just queasy<< Jamaica, I think that is why it is so important to know the students who are testing. That is the reason we give the instructor for any particular group that is testing (white belts, yellow belts, etc) the final override on the test results. They can override the other judges and pass or fail a student if they so choose. We feel that they know their own students the best and should have the final say. This kind of helps to make up for those "bad test days". If a student has been working extremely hard, has a great attitude and spirit and has shown the appropriate amount of improvement, they pass irregardless of the actual test. The promotional test is as much a chance for validation in front of your peers as much as anything. A chance to "shine" as it may. By the time you get your test, especially for higher ranks, the judges or Masters already know if you are ready or not. In fact, for 1st Dan up you have to get their permisson to test anyway. Your question also brings up my point about different baselines. Some people are going to look like they are having a "bad test day" no matter what, IF you compare them to the other testers purely on technique. But, that person may be the "star" of the test if you know how far he came. Perhaps when he first started, he couldn't get a kick above his knee but can now do a chest high kick. Plus, he works at everything ... great attitude/spirit ... always trying to do better. Isn't that as good, or better, than the person who walked in and, on day one, started doing kicks to the head - but hasn't "grown" as much as the "lesser" athelete? I've heard said .... martial arts are for the "losers" not the "winners". Translation: It is not the natural athelete or "super" person that needs the martial arts. They will always succeed. They can USE our help (as instructors) but don't NEED our help. It's the person who may be a little meek, or a little clumsy, maybe a little shy. THEY are the ones that we can help the most. They are the ones who NEED the martial arts. Through martial arts they learn: self-training >> self-discipline >> self-confidence >> self-defense >>> and, finally, self-respect. So forget about those "bad test days". We know what you've done. :-)) As always. - -Perry- pseto@aptl.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:04:59 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #95 In a message dated 2/17/99 2:17:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: RE: (So Called) "7TH United States National Taekwondo Championships" > > To my knowledge this event is not sanctioned by the National Governing Body > (NGB) for taekwondo in America and therefore is inappropriately titled as a > "U.S. National..." event. Titles such as: "U.S. National Championship" or, > "Jr. National Championship... , etc., are protected and may legitimately be > used exclusively by a sport's recognized NGB, which, for taekwondo is the U.S. > Taekwondo Union (USTU). << Is this different from the '25th U.S. National Taekwondo Championships' as advertised by the USTU? >> Yes, absolutely! Why? It is not a matter of opinion, political orientation or prejudice, it is, rather, due to two simple facts: One, the International Federation (IF, in amateur sport jargon) for taekwondo is the World Taekwondo Federation, and the WTF recognizes only one agency in each country as it's representative to the people of that nation. In America that sole agent is the USTU. Two, In the United States the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC) recognizes only one agency to represent any particular sport to the citizens of this fair land. Such an agency is termed a National Governing Body (or NGB). In America, the only NGB for taekwondo is the U.S. Taekwondo Union (USTU). It would be pandemonium if there was not one clear NGB for each sport. How would an athlete know under which organization they would need to compete to make the U. S. National Team, or the U.S. Olympic Team? Now the interesting thing is that unlike "private," for-profit organizations such as the ATA, the ITA, the USTF, the USTA, the USNTF, the AIKIA, the USMA, and the AITA (all found in one old Black Belt magazine, by the way) whose championships are closed to outsiders, any American - regardless of their system, style or federation - may be eligible to compete in a USTU event simply by filling out an application and paying a $28 per year fee. What all this adds up to is that the USTU is a non-profit member agency of the U.S. Olympic Committee whose sole purpose is the development and selection and support of America's athletes. All the other "taekwondo federations" in America are merely businesses whose primary purpose is financial gain. Because of this important distinction, the USTU is the only "federation" That may legitimately call it's national events by titles such as "The 25th U.S. National Taekwondo Championship." The ATA can and does host its own, private "National Championship." However, since it is closed to those other than practicing in an ATA school, It must call its event "The ATA National Championship," and the winners of such an event, of course, do not qualify to try out for the U.S. National Teams, U.S. Junior Olympic National Teams, Pan-American Teams, or Olympic Teams. I hope that is an adequate explanation, but, if it falls short, please ask me in a more specific manner and I will endeavor to clear things up for you. Steven E. Silz ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:36:34 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #95 << Nice thing about AAU tournaments is that they dispense with the "dress like a ninja or an American flag" in order to win mentality. At AAU tournaments you are only allowed to wear a white dobok, and in national competition you are not even allowed to have any club patches, screen printing on the back, or other identifiers of what organization or school you're from. It's all based on how you perform. >> Now only if there was a standard norm established for ALL styles, I'd have my biscuits and tea, sit back and watch the fury. :) But it's not that way. I know at the national USTU tournaments you're supposed to have a white uniform, black trim if you're a black belt (although I've seen advanced belts--mostly red wear them) and the only screen printing allowed is the name of your state. At local tournaments, the rules for wearing white-only uniforms is not strictly enforced. In fact, patches are good for egging the little ones along, but it serves an empty and materialistic purpose for the older ones. Just a question going across the board: What action is usually taken when competitors (be it male or female) wear jewelry or a whole lotta makeup in the ring? Just a question... Kim Jones AddidasTKD@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:48:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #96 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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