From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #98 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 18 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 098 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Bad testing day. the_dojang: Re: V6 #94: Screaming and Such the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 the_dojang: Re: V6 #94: horse kicks the_dojang: hard kicks! the_dojang: RE: Impleccable English the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #97 the_dojang: Teaching the wife the_dojang: Irregardless the_dojang: black belt club Re: the_dojang: hard kicks! the_dojang: AAU Question the_dojang: FIRE???? the_dojang: Jr Sport TKD and Jr Traditional the_dojang: Return of the Kung Fu Baby the_dojang: Thanks the_dojang: Perfection of Your Art/s the_dojang: Re: Bad Testing Days the_dojang: did i pass? did i pass? the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alexander, Stephen" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:32:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bad testing day. Jamaica wrote: >>Did you ever have an absolutely incredibly awful testing day. One of those that you slink out of the dojang with a bag on your head, crawl into a hole and retreat for awhile. Where your stomach is just queasy. Can't tell I did can ya? Happened to me in my color belt days which were quite awhile ago and oh I remember them so vividly. Actually there were two. One was my red belt test.<< Three points to make here 1) Been there 2) Done that 3) Same belt level as you when it happened. Quite possibly the worst day I ever had in martial arts. This test was also a few years back but interestingly enough, it sticks out as a reminder never to let your emotions play you like a guitar. I couldn't sleep the night before, couldn't eat right the day of the test. Screwed up my forms.. breaks... bad techniques because I was tired. Yes, I passed as well, but I just want to crawl out the door without anyone seeing me. It was a good experience in retrospect, I think. I have endeavoured to not let my emotion pump me to a level where it affects me physically. I was quite excited when I went for my 1st Dan as well, but I MADE myself calm down, sleep and eat, and that actually turned out to be one of my better tests! (IMO). I must say though, it is nice to not have to test as often as when you where a colour belt. It gives one a chance to "Perfect your Art" and not worry about the upcoming test criteria. But that's a whole other thread. ;-) Steve Alexander To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill. Sun Tzu / Gichin Funakoshi ....... Take your pick ! ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:50:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #94: Screaming and Such My instructor gives occasional women's self-defense courses for groups not affiliated with his school. I assisted in one such course recently. One of the students missed the third session because of a trip to Washington, DC with her elderly mother. As it turns out, they were robbed in a parking lot there. As she and her mother approached her car, another car carrying a driver and two men pulled up close on the passenger side of her vehicle. One of the men leaped out and ran around to her driver's side, and ripped her purse out of her grasp, but didn't turn away. At the same time, the second male passenger started to exit the other car, apparently to attack the mother. At that moment, the student let out a blood curdling (loud and horrendous, I'm certain;>) scream. The driver of the other car panicked and peeled out, causing passenger #2 to close his door, and passenger #1 to sprint to the car, purse in hand, and leap in. Good outcome, IMHO. She didn't remember any defense _techniques_, but she did maintain the necessary attitude and presence of mind to yell. She may have lost her cash and papers, but had she not screamed, the outcome could have been far worse. >Now I also know other instructors will teach women to scream. My >question is what do you teach them to scream? Is it a particular phrase >or number or just a loud horrendous scream. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:50:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 Fortunately, given the difference in rank, you will probably not be required to spar with her, either. I've have found that doing so is not necessarily a good idea;>) >I have avoided trying to give "advice" to my wife as I am sure that way >lies divorce! My Master has also, wisely resisted the temptation to >have me teach her in class. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:50:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #94 In our TSD system, the roundhouse kick (dollyo chagi) is taught to beginning students. A beginner can grasp the basics of this kick quickly, though it takes a long time to perfect (at least I'm still working on mine;>) As for "spin kick", it depends on exactly what you mean. A simple back wheel kick is introduced to students not long after they begin. Jump spinning back and jump spinning back crescent (tornado in TKD parlance, I believe) kicks aren't introduced to students until 3rd/2nd gup (depends on the student) - I'm guessing that would be between Intermediate and Advanced on your scale. Hope this helps. >Hello, I was wondering at what level( Iam talking Beg/Int/Adv not belt >color or rank) do you teach roundhouse and spin kick. I am asking soley >for the debate that sense they are "hard" kicks to learn should they be >taught early on or left for a more adv. student ? Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:50:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #94: horse kicks We are taught this, and while I can't disprove the claim, I'm skeptical. Next time you see someone on a horse, take a good look at their elevation. Consider that their "anchor" is their butt in the saddle, so their center of rotation would have to be rougly the center of their mass from butt to head. Pretty high off the ground, isn't it? Also consider that the saddle itself (if used) provides some limited lateral stability. If the opponents used stirrups consider the bracing effects of those devices, as well. Thigh grip would give the rider a lot of added stability even without stirrups. The kicker would probably need to power kick to chest-to-shoulder height of the mounted rider to stand any chance at all of accomplishing this feat (pun intended;>) Even considering that the opponent's horse is probably not a 17-hand Percheron, I can't see any military commander utilizing this as a reliable field technique. Last, it would seem that an effective counter strategy would be easy to implement. Just teach the horse to turn and kick at any human running at him. That could ruin the kicker's day;>) OTOH, it is a nice legend, and probably harmless since few students will ever get the opportunity to try it. >Was just >reading some history that said the high foot kicking techniques and of >tkd sports and traditional tkd originated from the skills necessary of >foot soldiers to kick/attack an opponent while they were seated on their >horse during battle. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:06:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: hard kicks! >Hard kicks? They are? Okay I'll give you spin hook as being not the >easiest :) >But roundhouse? When new students start training, I find they can generally >do roundhouse fine on the first night. The idea of one anyway. Obviously >they aren't master kickers yet. It may be low, jerky, no pivot, etc, but >they know the concept. I have MUCH more trouble teaching new students a >side kick. This kick has a whole lot more little points to >remember/concentrate on when learning, than a roundhouse. >Just my opinion anyway. >Mike >Hamilton >New Zealand. I think the hardest kick so far it the Side kick! I wonder if my legs will EVER be strong enough to execute this kick and have it right! We do a lot of wall stretches and exercises to help and I want to practice this one the most because I find it so hard to do! I keep trying to turn it into a roundhouse kick... Delcina ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:02:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Impleccable English > From: > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:11:52 EST > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #96 > > In a message dated 2/17/99 5:46:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang- > owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > << If a student has been working extremely hard, has a great > attitude and spirit and has shown the appropriate amount of improvement, > they pass irregardless of the actual test. The promotional test is as > much > a chance for validation in front of your peers as much as anything. A > chance to "shine" as it may. >> > > "Shiny" or not, I am sorry, but "irregardless" is not a word in the > English > language. > Regardless = without regard > > ------------------------------ > Hey, "irregardless" may not be proper English, but as far as I can tell neither are BTW, IMHO, YMMV, and others. Come on now, if your gonna (ooops, excuse me) pick on little things like this, at least sign your name. Kerry kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:22:07 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #97 Does it seem odd to anyone else that one of the ultimate marital societies in recorded history is in use in the patches thread as a derogatory comparison? "Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by That here, obedient to their laws, we lie." ============================== Since I am a "no patch wearer": Well, I for one am pleased to be compared to "one of the ultimate martial societies in recorded history". I think I would prefer "Samurai", but "Spartan" will do for now... Haa haa Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:36:24 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching the wife >My wife doesn't train so I've never really had that experience with her (she >came to one class then dropped out - probably cuz I was the instructor) Wow, I guess I have been blessed with an extrodinarily adaptive wife as well. I started teaching my wife privately on and off for a couple months, then we signed up at a local dojang and I must say she has adapted to being "taught" by me very, very well. There was a week or two of adjustment where we had to constantly talk about "appropriate" and "inappropriate" responses, not in terms of actions, but in terms of hurt feelings and such, but those were worked out pretty quickly, and now she is one of my favorite students because she is MORE respectful in class than most of the others, not less. She has taken on the burden of becoming the lower belt role-model in terms of behavior and ettiquette in the dojang, and she is the lowest ranking adult member! And not only that, but she sets the standard for "perserverance" and "guption" if you will by ALWAYS giving things her best shot, and never half-assing her techniques because they may not be very "exciting". But I guess that all would have to do more with her character than her teacher. I have to admit, she has far exceeded everything I taught her myself already, so I guess I can't take much credit. (smile) I love you sweetie! And I'm so proud of you! Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: "Li-Wei Chen" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:53:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Irregardless Someone mentions: ><< If a student has been working extremely hard, has a great > attitude and spirit and has shown the appropriate amount of improvement, > they pass irregardless of the actual test. The promotional test is as much > a chance for validation in front of your peers as much as anything. A > chance to "shine" as it may. >> > >"Shiny" or not, I am sorry, but "irregardless" is not a word in the English >language. >Regardless = without regard Although I didn't write the original message, I thought I'd mention that "irregardless" shows up in Webster's dictionary as coming into use circa 1912. Quoting from the online version, "The most frequently repeated remark about it is that 'there is no such word.' There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose ..." It goes on to say that not everybody accepts it, so using "regardless" is a safer bet :) http://www.m-w.com ------------------------------ From: Aaron Harmon Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:53:40 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: black belt club Not in the ATA, because I do not do Tae Kwon Do. We are part of Black Belt Schools of America, actually, and I am not sure whether it ( the Black Belt Club) is a org wide thing or only school wide. I do not really care that much, as I like my instructor and already followed him through one org change (we left the IKSA). He has an uncanny ability, every time I think to myself, " Golly, I would really like to have issues X, Y, and Z addressed in class." I'll be darned if he doesn't start drilling it within a week. And I think you have to be a Blue Belt or Higher to join the BBC. I think after Black Belt there is a Masters Club, or an Instructors club, or something like that. Aaron Harmon 2nd Gup ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:17:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: hard kicks! > I think the hardest kick so far it the Side kick! I suspect it will vary from person to person, but in general (from a study I recall reading) the back kick is the strongest kick for most. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Chris Rock" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:18:34 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: AAU Question One of the topics lately that caught my eye was regarding the two different national competitions, and the organizations behind them. My question for those in the know is this. Have any of you ever been involved with an organization called AAU (Amatuer Athletics Union?)? I have heard that they are involved with other Olympic Sports in the US and do offer a Taekwondo National level tournament. I have also heard that they provide better benefits for dojangs, instructors and students in the area of insurance. I unfortunately have no real facts on this matter and am simply going by what I was told by an individual that switched over to the AAU. Has anyone heard of this group and know the facts regarding it? Thanks in advance, Chris _______________________ Christopher Rock 2nd Dan Sahn TKD Breckenridge, Colorado rockon@colorado.net ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:50:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: FIRE???? What to yell? Several responded with : < but what I would do would be to scream FIRE!!!!!! Why? Because most people are interested in saving their own necks> I disagree. In a parking lot or parking garage - FIRE?? In a building - wouldn't yelling fire cause everyone to run out and away from the "fire" to "save their own necks"? And as Jamica mentioned, under extremely emotional circumstances, would someone think to yell FIRE? This is a good question, but I personally believe it's not the right answer and wouldn't teach anyone to yell FIRE. IMO. Master Mac ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:20:29 PST Subject: the_dojang: Jr Sport TKD and Jr Traditional The problem is that those “traditional” instructors allow their students to get to JO’s (or even States) without being FULLY aware of what awaits them in the competition ring. Sally Baughn ______________________________________ I agree. And this won't change.I saw this all too often and this is my continuing concern. I think the disparity will be even greater now since more individuals will be entering the competition arena with more determination than ever before now that the Olympics are really here and many see it as a very realistic goal. I think the level of competition skills will escalate and that for the serious competitor will be great training as they advance out of the junior division league and perhaps get placed on teams, apply for camps, etc. The competition will be greater than before. But there is still a vast majority of students that will not be prepared for this new era in competition. They are not prepared now. And I do agree this mismatch occurs in all sports but the risk of injury is far greater in this sport than many others and why I was also advocating improved head and face gear for especially the younger children. We don't screen kids out other than weight divisions and the differences between one competitor and another in the junior divisions can be quite extreme. Of course they will be eliminated but again I was coming more from a safety angle only. From what I can tell from many martial artists I have talked to some schools that are opening are focusing totally on Sport TKD and competition and while even traditional schools produce some awesome fighters I think we're getting into a whole new mindset and the training programs for junior martial artists that train at exclusvie Sport TKD schools will begin at a much earlier age and it will be more agressive. Not a great comparison but gymnastics started out as an "older woman" sport. The age in which young girls begin to compete is incredibly young now and I see that happening more and more in the martial arts. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:52:46 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Return of the Kung Fu Baby For all of those interested..... the kung fu baby and the screensaver that turns an avi file into a screensaver can be found here: http://www.laugh-your-ass-off.com/morebaby.htm It really is worth seeing if you have even a shred of a sense of humor, and it helps if you were alive in the 70's too.... Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:22:48 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Thanks By the way, Thank you all for the feedback on my story! I had no idea it would touch people so strongly. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:29:20 PST Subject: the_dojang: Perfection of Your Art/s > If you are striving for perfection does watching a student > that does not care about perfecting the technique bother you?> No, they make their own decision to train and what they train for. I think ideally each martial artist should strive to make the art their own. So what others do will not bother you. Andrew Longhorn ________________________________ And I understand this concept and I try but this is where I fall short. I know this is advice that we should use in everything we do in life but somehow I have a hard time grasping it and then putting it into reality. Somehow I always come back to the old saying, "you are who your friends are," "you are who you associate with." Now this doesn't mean you're not your own person but whether you are an instructor or a student those that surround us are a direct reflection on us and whether we like it or not we take on their identity by association and I have to tell you I've not always enjoyed it. Especially if they are blackbelts. So if you're an instructor and people come to observe the school and others are in the class and don't take it seriously, I believe it becomes a direct reflection on everyone. And not a positive one. If you're a student I think it can be an additional burden to overcome. Any and all help appreciated on this one since the years have not changed my mind nor mellowed me ont this issue. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ernest Hart Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:11:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bad Testing Days Here's one for you. Two, actually. 1 Dan: I had bronchitis, a fever, and general malaise. Did OK anyway. 3 Dan: Not quite recovered major ankle sprain. Ankle swelled up to twice its normal size by the end of testing. Video shows that I did OK. Footwork was pretty poor for me, though. E. Hart ------------------------------ From: Mike Heeney Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:39:41 +1300 Subject: the_dojang: did i pass? did i pass? So, does everyone find out then and there if they passed their dan test? Or do you have to wait to find out? Here we sit down after the test, GM Lee gets out of his chair, stands in front of us, tells us things we did wrong or need to work on, and then says "Altogether, xx marks, promotion x belt". Well you hope he says that! 60 or over is a pass. I don't know of anyone who got more than 65. For the gup grades, I simply receive the certificates in the mail 2-3 days after grading. How about you ppl? Mike Hamilton New Zealand. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~mheeney <-- me/myself/I - Taekwondo - Riverdance ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:14:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #98 ******************************* Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.