From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #105 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 22 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 105 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Small Kids, Reprised the_dojang: Re: guess that makes me a martial artist the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #104 the_dojang: Re: motivation the_dojang: Turning / Roundhouse kick (fwd) the_dojang: to Andrew - sigh the_dojang: Re: V6 #104: get thee to a punnery the_dojang: greetings.. the_dojang: NAAUTU to the USTU the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steven Gilmore Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:39:08 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Small Kids, Reprised Teaching ones own children, in private, is far different than introducing them into a classroom situation. I am not addressing teaching ones own children in private. I see a lot of children (and yes, they are cute in a dobok) who, through media exposure (Power Rangers, etc.) do "martial art moves" and/or "ache to get on the mat." That doesn't make them ready for class anymore than watching NASCAR racing on TV makes them ready to take the family Toyota out for a spin. >Also, I noticed that you teach these children in a class and I assume it is >for money. IF this is true than I don't see how that can be reconciled with >your statement "I think that the real need is to educate parents to simply let >children be children (lots of "free" time) and not to rush them into >adolescence by pushing "activities." I'm not sure your parents will get the >message while you continue to offer the service. Actually, I have a lot of misgivings about offering this class. I make it very clear to the parents that a great deal of the standard curriculum has been omitted: we do only simple body conditioning (full-range stretching is not appropriate for tiny bodies); very simple kicks (knee, front, inside crescent, axe, and back), very simple hand strikes (punch, palm strike, spear hand, knife hand, ridge hand, elbow), simple blocks... occasionally we walk through small components of the first hyung although I have absolutely no expectation that any of them will learn it entirely or be able to perform it properly (trying to get parents to understand that their 4 year old will not memorize a 62-movement hyung is surprisingly difficult!). Simple breakfalls (front, back, side, twisting, shoulder roll) and acrobatics (2-handed cartwheel). Lots of games (tug of war, rope climbing, long-jumping, etc. ). Sparring in my school is not permitted until age 8, and then only by instructor (me) permission. Ditto for weapons training. Self-defense training can begin as early as age 6, but it all depends on the student. My emphasis is on getting the children to pay attention, to exercise self-control, to treat others with respect and courtesy. I want them to have fun and to learn, but under no circumstances do I consider them "martial artists" because that term means (to me) a certain degree of mental and spiritual development that I believe to be beyond a young child's grasp. My problem as a commercial school is that these parents will take their children somewhere else if I don't offer something; should I just give in to the competition without a fight? I'm not sure. I absolutely draw the line at age 4. I have had I don't know how many arguments with parents who want me to let their 2-year-olds into my classes ("well, my child is big for his/her age and much smarter than the average 2 year-old"...fine... enroll him/her at Montessori). These are the same parents who enroll their kids in piano lessons AND ballet AND ice-skating lessons AND reading classes. When does the kid have time to be a kid? And who am I to tell them that their parenting is wrong? Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:48:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: guess that makes me a martial artist In a message dated 2/21/99 4:11:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > And for thou that fall down.. You show me someone who can stand toe to toe > with someone and kick them in the head but cant walk across a flat floor > without tripping ill show you a Martal Artist.. > > > Rich ha ha. Guess I'm a martial artist for sure now :0) ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:55:18 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #104 >1) Do you have kids in the classes (<10 yo or <6yo or whatever). > >2) how many in proportion to older people? (or is it a children only class >and what is the age range) > >3) How "unruly" would you classify their behaviour? > >4) How much martial arts are they really learning? As apposed to >child-minding, games, etc. > >5) How "relaxed" are your classes? Do you train in tracksuits? or do you >bow/no-talking/plain-white doboks, mlitary, etc. (1) Kids are segregated into separate classes by age groups: 4 & 5 year olds - 45 minutes 2/x week 6-9 year olds - 60 minutes 3/x week 10 and up - 60 minutes 3/x week (2) Adults tend to avoid mixed kid-adult classes, so we offer only one class that is mixed. Children must be at least age 6 to be in that class. Generally, it is kid only, with an occasional adult (usually related to one of the kids in the class). The class is taught at adult level, not at children's level, so the children that do come are pretty serious. (3) Children aren't generally unruly, they just can't keep up with the adults in terms of stamina (mental, not physical). The exception is the ADHD kids, who are fairly disruptive (lots of inappropriate outbursts in speech and movement). (4) Kids don't learn that much martial art because they balk at repetitive practice, which is the key to learning. Mainly the focus for kids is discipline, etiquette, respect. (5) Our classes are formal. Dobok. Lots of bowing. No talking. No playing around in adult classes. Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:04:06 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: motivation > I guess I'm in my phase of learning patience..... > > Master Mac well then I would congratulate you because I feel like I've been in this *phase* since I was born, ha ha. Seriously I thought of an idea on this motivation issue. It just POPPED into my head so it may be worth your time or not. Our GM has several students who are masters and opened their own schools. As a result we (the group of schools) can get together for tournaments and share resources etc.., Sometimes students from 2-3 schools will get together 3-4 times a month for tournament training or for forms night. This gives the kids an exciting way to see how other MA kids train. It gives them a chance to make friendships too. One thing I think it also does- it shows them their weaknesses. For example, when I switched dojangs I noticed right away that things were done differently on occassion. I just worked more to "get up to speed". Because I was new I was given plenty of explanation and NEVER made to feel stupid. After even 2 classes I found that I had assimilated (for lack of a better word) into their way of doing things and I am very happy that I had to give that extra effort. Maybe kids would feel the same. When they have visitors at their dojang its their *turf*. they get to help set the pace and might work harder so that the visiting kids don't show them up. When your crew goes to visit elsewhere they still have to work or else the *home team* will show them up. I know this involves competition to some degree but it may just work. ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:24:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Turning / Roundhouse kick (fwd) Sent to the wrong address. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Forwarded message: From: James Clark Subject: Turning / Roundhouse kick Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:37:38 +1100 Hi gang, About 1/2 of the time I do this kick I have a problem keeping my knee ABOVE the height of my hips to get the right execution of the technique and the right power behind it (power generated with/by hips as opposed to just the leg). Can anyone help with any suggestions .... any at all ? :-) Thanks bunch ! James Clark Senior Consultant Cliftons IT http://www.cliftons.com.au Level 4 200 George St Sydney NSW 2000 Tel: (02) 9250-0999 Fax: (02) 9241-5121 ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:35:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: to Andrew - sigh We have a secret training technique, even older than the oldest martial art of all time, it's called "Grandma". :) We are very lucky, in that her Grandmother has no desire to train, but loves to watch and loves to look after our daughter, so she feeds her, changes her, while I teach and the rest of the family train. She does try and get on the mat when no-one is holding her. Andrew Longhorn Andrew, How did I know that your secret would be of little help to me? But how fortunate for you! I don't want to take her to every class b/c what fun would that be? also, I've never been much into playpens. I would however love to hear of a trick for teaching her how to watch and cheer on her brother at testings. My husband and I just switch and the other has to wait and watch the test on video. We also have to use 2 cars if planning a trip out for dinner and one of us may wind up late! It amazes me but when its demo time she sits by my side and I feel like she's joined at the hip! I think because of all the extra people and sometimes the new location she feels "out of her element" and stays closer to homebase, a.k.a. MOM. I think I'll work on learning that thing people call *patience* although I have a feeling I'll prove there is a 10th planet before that happens, ha ha. Since she's our last one it'll be just a few years till she can sit and play, read or watch with me for 50-60 min while big brother struts his stuff. I NEVER want her there when its time for MY class. I couldn't concentrate. Now my 6 year old will sit and read or play legos in the chair in the corner while I work out. I let him do this only in summer when he can stay up later and to him its a treat. He's sure to tow the line lest the privelage be taken away. Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel . Dawne BTW, you don't rent out grandma do you? If she bakes too she'd be highly sought after! ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:13:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #104: get thee to a punnery I don't recall en-abeling you to raise that cain to my child;>) >In reference to your comments about Karate Babies, just let me retort: > >"Children were meant to be cained and not heard." Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Rich Barta Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:13:19 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: greetings.. I've recently posted but never introduced myself to the group, My name is Rich Barta from Central Nebraska, I've trained under masters Mike and Vicky Neiman and also had the pleasure to begin my training when they were lower rank and watch them move up and improve. although i went away from martal arts for some time I've always held onto the mental training that Mr and Mrs Neiman have given me. I plan on returning to my training after being away for the last 10 yrs, Occasionally ill post here on my experiences of the hard return after 10 yrs.. My goal is to learn the newer forms and relearn what I've forgotten and get back to the level of instructor that i once was, I also hope that i can get helpful info from others in this group that will improve my training skills.. Thank you for your time.. Rank: 1st Dan Black Style: Tae Kwon Do School: South Central Tae Kwon Do Rich ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:30:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: NAAUTU to the USTU Forwarded message: From TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Mon Feb 22 10:26:02 1999 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:17:18 EST To: raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Dear Ray, RE: AAU >>> USTU ??? I have noticed quite a few posts recently noting the similarity between the AAU and USTU logos, and a healthy bit of speculation as to which is the chicken and which, the egg. Though I'm not a big historian, having long succession of AAU Taekwondo membership cards dating back to 1976 amongst my memorabilia does grant me a historical perspective which might be illuminating to some of your readers who are younger in the art: The roots of the official (non-private)WTF Taekwondo movement in America go back to 1974 when the National AAU Taekwondo Committee (NAAUTC) was formed under the leadership of Dr. Ken Min. Several years later ('78?) this group's name was changed to the National AAU Taekwondo Union (NAAUTU). The NAAUTU -- with its shield logo adapted from the AAU logo -- was the National Governing Body (NGB) for taekwondo in the United States, and the "sole representative" of the WTF in this country, as well. In 1980 the International Olympic Committee (IOC) met in Moscow and made history by granting recognition to taekwondo, under the leadership of the WTF (Sorry, ITF), as a "Demonstration Sport," opening the door for our future on the Olympic program. During the early 1980s, there was a movement amongst the NGBs in America to align themselves directly with the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC). For taekwondo, this meant severing its ties with the AAU in 1984, and becoming a direct member of the USOC under the visionary leadership of then president Dr. Dong Ja Yang. Our organization then became the modern NGB known as the United States Taekwondo Union (USTU), but kept the shield logo from the early days. >From this point forth, our organization was elevated from being a "kitchen table operation," to an NGB with its headquarters at the US Olympic Complex in Colorado Springs, CO, and the US Olympic Training Centers have hosted the Elite Athletes of our sport ever since. The USTU has selected and trained all US Taekwondo Teams including the teams that represented America at the 1987, '91 & '95 Pan-American Games, and the 1988 and '92 Olympic Games. Meanwhile, (I believe in the late '80s) another group of individuals started another taekwondo program under the auspices of the Amateur Athletic Union (AAU). Under the leadership of Mr. Michael Friello in the 1990s, this group - - AAU Taekwondo - has become viable amateur sports organization. Now we have come full circle, as in 1997, the AAU Taekwondo program requested - -- and by a unanimous vote of out Board of Governor's, was granted -- "Group B Membership" in the USTU. Lead by former US Olympic Coach, President Sang Chul Lee, the USTU will select and train the U.S. Taekwondo athletes to compete in the Olympic Games, as a Full Medal Sport in Sydney Australia... NEXT YEAR !!! Respectfully, S.E. Silz ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:31:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #105 ******************************** Attention USA WTFers! Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.