From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #111 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 24 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 111 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Not teaching everything the_dojang: Do You Teach All You Know? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 the_dojang: Teaching Children Poem the_dojang: Re: KSW Class the_dojang: Kids classes and music the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 the_dojang: Are You A Martial Arts Purist? the_dojang: Are You A Martial Arts Purist? the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:01:19 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Not teaching everything > A long time ago I had an instructor that openly told us he would never > teach all he knew so that he would always be ahead of his students. > Do you agree with the comment and philosophy this instructor made? If > we leave out what we know are we not diluting the art? Or are we > leaving room for the students to find their own way once they are taught > the basics and thereby enhancing the art? > > Jamaica > jamaica_power@hotmail.com > Gee, sounds pretty insecure to me. I'm still a long way from teaching, but it seems to me you teach EVERYTHING, just wait until the student is READY. I do think a teacher should try to stay ahead of the students, but that should be due to continued learning, not secrecy. And even if you learn everything your teacher knows there is still a universe of room to find your own way and enhance your art. Dave Lowry's books *Autumn Lightning* and *Persimmon Wind* give a wonderful look at the teaching of an art in its entirety, from the perspective of preserving that art. Highly recommended. Kerry kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:17:52 PST Subject: the_dojang: Do You Teach All You Know? I _hope_ that he meant that he would never teach his students all that he knew because he intended to continue to learn. Scott Miller _______________________________________ I hoped that too for a very long time. I also believed it too! As time went on it became apparent that was not the case. He also used to say that he would never spar anybody because he didn't want to hurt them... Yep... you're getting more of the picture now... and then he would elaborate and repetitiously tell stories of how he bloodied a guy once. Hmmm I thought 5th dans are supposed to know how to control that. As time also elapsed I wondered how much he really did know because we really had to do a lot and learn a lot on our own. He also ran the class from an ego standpoint. Talk, talk and more talk. We'd start to do a front kick.. we'd do 1, 2,, 3 and then stop and he'd tell some more personal stories, (we were his captive audience as we stood at attention) kick 1, 2, 3 and talk 4, 5, 6... Don't think his classes ever made anybody sweat :) I had the good sense to eventually quit the school but when you are a colored belt and new to the system it is hard to sometimes tell what is true and what is B.S. because you want to believe and trust in your instructor. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:14:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 Dear Ray, I have a thought regarding teaching/learning philosophies I'll like to put before your audience to see what consensus (if any) may arise: The Western system of instruction, descended from the time of Socrates, requires the student (or disciple) to present a question (challenge) to the teacher (mentor, master). The teacher's responsibility is to offer a response that will bring enlightenment to the pupil. [Of course this method presumes that the student is capable of asking the "right questions."] In contrast, the traditional Eastern system requires the teacher to assign a task through the completion of which the pupil finds enlightenment. The student does not question the teacher. [This method presumes the student will pursue the task diligently, independently and to reasonable conclusion] Over the last decade during which I have taught daily, I have found that my students, quite naturally, are accustomed to the Socratic tradition, and seem to expect it in the dojang. While I do accommodate them a bit in offering them some enlightenment by direct answer, I am more inclined to challenge them to "learn by doing," as this was the tradition I was raised in takwondo under. I found the things I discovered by 'doing it' rather than 'discussing or debating it' were more both more beautiful and more meaningful. It also suits my authoritarian style of running class. Any thoughts on this topic? Steven E Silz ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:45:41 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 << A long time ago I had an instructor that openly told us he would never teach all he knew so that he would always be ahead of his students. >> I think this whole issue could be avoided by the instructor continuing to study as well. If the instructor is still learning new material how can anyone "catch up"? They will always be a number of years behind the master... Greg Giddins ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:53:29 PST Subject: the_dojang: Teaching Children Poem I know it's an oldie but seemed appropriate with the thread about teaching children.... Children Learn What They Live If a child lives with criticism, she learns to condemn. If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight. If a child lives with ridicule, she learns to be shy. If a child lives with shame, he learns to feel guilty. If a child lives with tolerance, she learns to be patient. If a child lives with encouragement, he learns confidence. If a child lives with praise, she learns to appreciate. If a child lives with fairness, he learns justice. If a child lives with security, she learns to have faith. If a child lives with approval, he learns to like himself. If a child lives with acceptance and friendship, she learns to find Love in the world. Dorothy Law Nolte Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ken Brown Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:02:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: KSW Class Steven Gilmore writes: >At my school, I have segregated (under black belt) sparring into an >optional Friday night class. [snip] >My understanding is that sparring is not generally taught in a lot of KSW >schools, largely because of liability problems. I am very, very strict in >enforcing sparring rules (and also just lucky) in that I have not had >more than bruises to contend with. Sorry, I guess I should have gone into a little more detail. Basically Master Ma just tolerates the sparring. We used to do it more often under Master You. We are in sort of weird situation at our Dojang where there is a big vacuum where there should be students in the middle grades. Basically when Master You left, everyone but a lot of senior students ended up leaving. I'm one of three mid level students. Anyways, many of the students who'd been there awhile asked Master Ma if we could keep sparring, and we usually just do it amongst the senior students on Saturday classes. Sometimes we do three step sparring with the beginners. Ken Brown Chicago, IL ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:36:55 PST Subject: the_dojang: Kids classes and music Less stress on the kid, less stress on me that way. Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just a question. During kids warmup sessions or workout sessions do you ever play music? If you do, does it work or is it distracting. Does it help with focus and timing or take away from it? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:13:23 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 << I do appreciate and enjoy your posts, Kim. You are tenacious, energetic, committed to the martial arts, and a positive challenge to other martial artists in your school and on this forum. Your posts have an incredible depth and passion about them. So, in other words, thanks for sharing. >> No problem, Jamaica. I try to step on the toes of the conservatives.... When you don't exercise your right to freedom of speech in the context it was meant to be exercised, your voice is lost among those of the conservatives who try to quell the rebellious. :) Just come up with a topic and I migth have something to say... it really depends on the subject. But you're welcome. :) Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:26:56 PST Subject: the_dojang: Are You A Martial Arts Purist? I was wondering if anyone considered themselves a purist of the martial arts? I have met so many different martial artists. Are you one regarding a specific style of teaching or do you feel you can be a purist of the umbrella term - martial arts? If you are a purist is it in your own personal training? Do you feel a purist could still be one in their own personal life but perhaps out of necessity need to compromise in your teachings to others? Do you think there can be varying degrees of a purist since even the color white has different shades? Perhaps from pure to pedant? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:50:18 PST Subject: the_dojang: Are You A Martial Arts Purist? I was wondering if anyone considered themselves a purist of the martial arts? I have met so many different martial artists. Are you one regarding a specific style of teaching or do you feel you can be a purist of the umbrella term - martial arts? If you are a purist is it in your own personal training? Do you feel a purist could still be one in their own personal life but perhaps out of necessity need to compromise in your teachings to others? Do you think there can be varying degrees of a purist since even the color white has different shades? Perhaps from pure to pedant? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:38:46 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 > Through dedication and practice an instructor CAN be better, but to > teach to ensure that you ARE better is completely WRONG! > I think the instructor with that mentality is missing the point. If I can understand a concept and teach it to someone, they won't be "better" than me, they will be "better" only when they can achieve all I have achieved and understand, do and teach the same thing better than me. No one is going to bother with that are they? Put it another way, I teach the best I can, I teach all I know (when appropriate for the individual) but I don't think I have taught all I know, because I seem to learn too much every day to impart it all within a few hours a week to everyone else. Even though some students give me a run for my money because, I'm proud to say, I think I taught them very well. I find that even with their youth, their weight, flexibility, whatever advantage they may have, I can get the better of them just by relying on the good old larger bank of "experience". Eventually, my students will probably surpass me, some people just learn faster than others. Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:58:22 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #110 In a message dated 2/24/99 10:32:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > >>Hi gang, > About 1/2 of the time I do this kick I have a problem keeping my knee > ABOVE the height of my hips to get the right execution of the technique > and the right power behind it (power generated with/by hips as opposed > to just the leg). > Can anyone help with any suggestions .... any at all ? :-) > try jogging in place focusing on bringing your knees up to mid-waist/chest level.. if it helps have a partner hold a couple of pads at the desired height as a reminder to keep those knees up... do this exercise for various time intervals.. start with 30 seconds, then take a break for 30 then continue... Another usefull execise is: in a sparring stance.. begin to bounce. once you have a good rythme going use the front leg to first execute a knee strike aimed a high as you can go.. then execute a front leg front kick aimed as high as you can go.. repeat this while staying in the rytheme you initially started with.. execute 20 -30 reps for both front legs and then rear legs. let me know how it goes ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:23:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #111 ******************************** Attention USA WTFers! Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.