From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #114 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 25 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 114 In this issue: the_dojang: TKD in CA the_dojang: side rolls the_dojang: Confucius vs. Socrates (bow, touch gloves, seejok!) the_dojang: Teaching Children Poem the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #113 the_dojang: Socratic Thinking is Critical Thinking the_dojang: Instructing Females/Males - Differences? the_dojang: Demotions the_dojang: RE: 4 times? the_dojang: Grappling in HKD the_dojang: Silliness In Motion the_dojang: Re: Wheel Kick the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathan Wind Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:31:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: the_dojang: TKD in CA Hey All-- I'm going to be going to CA to visit grad. schools from around March 20th to April 3rd or so and I'd like to check out the TKD out there. Would anyone practicing TKD at Berkeley, Stanford, or UCLA or near there, please send me a private e-mail so I can see about checking out some schools? -Thanks -G Garth C. Robins U. of Cambridge, Trinity College ------------------------------ From: Aaron Harmon Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:14:05 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: side rolls Hello, I have never done a side roll in KMA but back in Jujitsu we did, it was like this. Start in a horse stance, and use your right arm like you do in the diagonal shoulder roll where it must remain firm, but instead of moving your weight _forward_ diagonally over your shoulder and placing your right hand near your left foot and rolling diagonally from your right shoulder to the left hip, you shift your weight directly to the right and place the blade of your right hand _behind_ your right foot and roll straight across both shoulder blades. You roll directly to the right and end up in a horse stance again. If you were to do one to the left you would end up back where you started. It is a funny feeling roll, but not too difficult. I found that it helped to pick a point on the wall before beginning the roll and keeping my eyes on it throughout the roll. And it helped to keep the left leg fairly straight so as to use my momentum to move through the roll. It is an interesting move to stick on the end on a couple of wrist locks for demonstrations. Use the roll to torque the wrist and throw your partner, youch! :) Aaron Harmon Gia Ryu ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:56:59 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Confucius vs. Socrates (bow, touch gloves, seejok!) To use Eastern methods to express my Western teaching style: If you were travelling to China to teach the computer illeterate citizens how to run a computer program would it be better to go in speaking only english, and teaching by lecture and question and answer sessions, (a method they are unfamiliar with) or to study their learning philosophy and teach using the "confucian" method, which they are comfortable with? Would you teach more efficiently by forcing them to learn to learn your way? Or should you learn to speak thier language and teach in the way thay can easily understand? Now, I am all for teaching in parables and using "fill in the blank" teaching methods. It's a whole lot more rewarding when a student not only solves your "confucian riddle" but also uses the answer to improve themselves. And most students love the "if you can swipe the stone from my hand, Grasshopper" type challenges, but expecting or requiring all of your students to conform to an alien teaching method just because "it was always taught that way" usually doesn't fly all that well. Some students love it, and they came in to MA for that type of Eastern thought exposure, but most come in for very different reasons. And most demand a comfort level be established before setting their instructor up on that pedestal, and blindly following his direction. And rightly so!! From my experience, most of the instructors who demand the blind obidience and never answer questions directly, or discourage direct questions are the ones who are covering up their lack of knowlege with Eastern Mysticism mumbo jumbo. Because of the HUGE number of "Paper Masters" (red belts who used their PC's to print up a cool looking 4th degree certificate) out there I can't blame a student for questioning his/her instructor and not follwing blindly. The problem doesn't lie with the good instructors who want to teach the way they were taught, it lies with the imposters abusing a system designed to effectively teach hard to grasp concepts to people in a way that promotes deeper understanding throug contemplation. By telling a student to answer a question themselves an instructor is either 1) encouraging a student to grow or 2) avoiding answering the question. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:52:40 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching Children Poem < I know it's an oldie but seemed appropriate with the thread about teaching children....>> I love that! Thanks for sharing. Master Mac ------------------------------ From: Judi Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:45:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #113 Brett - I think the phrase "blindly lead" is too strong. Just because on edoesn't always questions doesn't mean one is lead blindly. I am a strong believer in learning for yourself. But iron does indeed sharpen iron so the "smooth ride" is not necessarily the best for learning. The challenge to improve is sometimes realized by external motivation. >Adults respond to logic (read: things that make sense). They >don't want to be blindly lead down a path without knowing where >they're going or why we've chosen this particular path. It's an >easier, smoother ride for them when they figure out how to "drive" >themselves (read: self-monitoring). One way to acheive this is >through the "Socrating Method." - - - Brett Erwin Allen, TX jberwin@ti.com Judi ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:23:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: Socratic Thinking is Critical Thinking >>Having said that, I believe that in a situation where the teacher truly has the best interest of the student at heart, and the student knows he/she can trust the instructor, that it is very good to teach/learn by allowing the student to simply follow the instruction of the teacher and thereby discover on their own. Relating this to TKD, I am only now beginning to see the value in simply doing what my instructor tells me to do. I do not need to question my instructor and know why I have to move my foot in this seemingly unnatural position while I perform a certain kick. But I do find out very soon that if I do what my instructor says, then I actually kick with more ease and power. If I do not do what my instructor says, I lose my balance and fall on my face, or I get kicked in the teeth. This learning by discovery is extremely effective. Scott Apple ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Enjoyed your post and would like to explore a bit further (IMHO). I am a big advocate of critical thinking which is synonymous with Socratic Thinking. While an instructor/student/mentorship training certainly has its merits in building a foundation and a friendship I think the foundation still has a few cracks in it. The weakness in following an instructor completely and without question builds a perception that your instructor is infallible instead of human and constantly in change. The second weakness that I see is the confusion in what attributes we attach to our instructor. The instructor might very well be skilled in technique and so we might say he is very knowledgeable about how to do certain kicks but that does not necessarily mean that this instructor is also wise, or that he has a broad based understanding of your needs or is even compassionate to your wants. The third weakness when I see us giving attributes to our instructor is that we place them on a secure level high above us. This is dangerous territory because we are making an assumption that we know and understand this individual and what got them to the point they are at. We have imparted perhaps a higher level of importance to them than they deserve. I do not perceive any of this as not having trust. To me it is just what should be a daily part of our life in attempting to understand each other and where we come from. I will be the first to defer to and acknowledge the skills, talents, competencies, and intelligence of another but that is just a very secluded area of their entire being. I would probably be more tempted to completely trust a peer that I worked out with and interacted with daily than to give complete devotion to an instructor. This does not mean I cannot respect and admire an instructor, or that I don't hold them in high esteem. It's just such a small fragment of who they really are. And lastly I think young children should not be taught to listen blindly to adults. They will carry that line of thought into other areas of their lives. I would feel more uncomfortable if someone didn't question. My personal belief is that every martial artist instructor should be teaching critical thinking as part of their curriculum. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:06:53 PST Subject: the_dojang: Instructing Females/Males - Differences? It was very apparent to me during the pregnancy thread that there was a tremendous support for women in the martial arts by both men and women. With that said: Are there any major or small differences in teaching men vs women (at any age level)? Is there a type of instruction or communication style that works better for one than for the other no matter what style you teach? Is there a certain sex that takes things more personally or is that a personality trait? If so, how do you handle that in two areas: 1) if they can't take criticism, and 2). if you have a sparring partner that takes things personally and then gets too aggressive in sparring both at the dojang and at tournaments. I am also interested in this topic from a student (non-instructor) perspective as you observe your classmates and how your instructor approaches them. Sometimes instructors aren't even aware of the little subtleties. Are women vs men instructors significantly different in their approaches to teaching? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:57:46 PST Subject: the_dojang: Demotions Has anybody in martial arts (any style) been demoted or stripped of rank? Have you or has anyone else that you know of kicked someone out of their school? Is demotion even possible in the martial arts? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:03:48 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: 4 times? > sometimes I have to repeat -- loudly -- my > instructions 4 times before everyone follows along, I can't imagine what > it > would be like if I had to compete with music. > Wow! ------------------------------ From: James Clark Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:20:17 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: Grappling in HKD Hi ya, I've been talking this topic over with quite a Hapkido friends and insturctors. It seems that maybe there was originally a grappling component taught to higher ranks. My question is do any of the Hapkido practioners out there have a grapplin component as part of their curriculum or perhaps do you study it outside of your dojang (ie maybe a BJJ class or two) ... or you may not even do grappling at all. Also do any KSW practitioners do grappling and is it part of the KSW curriculum Just curious ! Yours in the Arts James Clark Senior Consultant Cliftons IT http://www.cliftons.com.au Level 4 200 George St Sydney NSW 2000 Tel: (02) 9250-0999 Fax: (02) 9241-5121 ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:42:06 PST Subject: the_dojang: Silliness In Motion Random idea from a female martial artist (me)... If I were in a school and wanted to increase my enrollment - before I would add a fancy gym, a cardio class, etc I would offer (at the same time as the m.a. class, an Oriental Cooking class. Laugh if you will but that is what I would do! :) Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:53:50 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Wheel Kick Does anyone have any insight on executing a wheel kick? This kick has really been troubling me. It's frustrating when your body doesn't do what your mind thinks it should. Thanks in advance. Chella 7th Gup, Tang Soo Do Loch Sheldrake,New York ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:25:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #114 ******************************** Attention USA WTFers! Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.