From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #117 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 26 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 117 In this issue: the_dojang: Holding back teaching [none] the_dojang: Learning the_dojang: Questions, Questions, and More Questions,,, [none] the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #116 the_dojang: RE: Demotions the_dojang: FINAL REMINDER * Taekwondo Training w/US Captains the_dojang: Authoritarian Style - What Is It? the_dojang: Re: Journals, Logs, and Perhaps Diaries the_dojang: Re: Cooking in the dojang the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #116 the_dojang: Demotions the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Groff" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:39:50 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Holding back teaching <> Well, at least he was honest about his own fears and insecurities--he didn't want any of his students to outshine him. What a pity! Most teachers would be prouder than anything to be able to point to a shining star and say "that's my girl/boy!". Hope you split from this fella, and found yourself someone without so much baggage. This is also a pretty good arguement for supplementing training with other sources, and doing further research on ones own. I learned the hard way years ago--there are no secrets in the martial arts. Anyone who tries to tell us that there are is simply trying to manipulate us. And any teacher who omits information, is not a teacher at all. I couldn't imagine a college professor or even a high school science teacher reserving "special teachings", or holding back information for fear that the pupil might outshine the instructor. Who would stunt the students growth to protect his/her own position? This silly, abstract concept (including so-called "secrets") seems to be our burden to debunk, here in the martial arts. - --C.J. ------------------------------ From: "Lenny Santee" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:52:15 -0500 Subject: [none] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BE6176.125D6B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can't get off the list?? unsubscribe the_dojang-digest TYPE @ U LATER Lenny lennys@iglou.com You're just jealous because the voices only talk to ME. - ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BE6176.125D6B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

TYPE @ U LATER
Lenny
lennys@iglou.com
<http://www.angelfire= .com/ky/wattersonchurch>

You're just jealous because the voices only = talk to=20 ME.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BE6176.125D6B60-- ------------------------------ From: Scott Apple Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:45:35 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Learning >The weakness in following an instructor completely and without question builds a perception that your instructor is infallible instead of human and constantly in change. ___________ Implied in what I stated earlier is that trust is already established. We do not live in a perfect world, and I certainly don't believe anyone should follow an instructor's teaching without first establishing whether or not that instructor does indeed have the student's best interests at heart. Honestly, I don't even believe that people in the Orient operate this way. It may not be through questioning the instructor in a class setting, but there is a method by which this trust is first established--there must be. However, once the trust is established between the instructor and the student, I think there is a lot to gain by incorporating different methods of learning/teaching. Yes, the student must be encouraged to think critically. You can exercise critical thinking even as you follow the instruction of a trusted teacher. To think critically involves weighing and judging the evidence (the measurable results). I do what my instructor says to do, and I discover and learn. I do not believe this is the only method of teaching and learning that should be used. There are benefits to the student being guided by the instructor down the path of discovery. It occurs to me that in my own TKD classes, my instructor is not always right. At times he contradicts himself, not in the actual description of techniques, but in what he tells us to do. At times he is "unclear" in exactly what he wants us to do. But, I have learned to follow and respond with "yes, sir" and simply change what I'm doing if needed (even though he may have previously asked me to do something different). When I don't understand at all what he has asked of me, I do not hesitate to ask for clarification. But, I don't question why he asks me to do what he does. I'm talking strictly about TKD. I trust his teaching on TKD. Outside the Dojang, that's a different story. The color of my instructor's belt is not necessarily an indication of his character. I believe it should speak to his determination and inner fortitude, but it does not give me basis to trust his character. I trust him to teach me TKD, not guide my decisions about my family and my life. It goes for any area of life, whomever I trust for guidance: Trust that is blind is not trust at all--it's foolishness. When trusting blindly, sometimes you get lucky, but other times you get hurt--sometimes badly. And precisely because we do have a choice in the matter, that indeed is foolishness. Further, I will not teach my daughter to simply do anything that anyone tells her to do. Even with someone she can trust, I want her to know that people are not infallible, and even someone trustworthy and wise and truly loving can make mistakes. But in those times, forgiveness is a grand thing to encounter. I want to cultivate in her a spirit of learning that investigates and pulls the good from various methods of learning. One more thought: I feel like I have found my homeland. I love TKD, but I also thrive on the exchange of ideas and thoughts. I like presenting thoughts and having them evaluated and challenged by other readers. I read your comments and it gives me opportunity to stretch and grow: I could either lower my head and walk away, or I can take what said, grapple with it and clarify my thinking. I also have the choice to simply take or leave what others present to me. This is a good thing. For those of you who made it to the end of this discourse, I promise I'll keep it shorter in the future. It's hard not to talk so much about something I like this much. Scott Apple ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:12:07 PST Subject: the_dojang: Questions, Questions, and More Questions,,, (By the way, do you have a bottomless well of these questions ;-) Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com _______________________________________ hahaha Alas, it's a curse. When my son was growing up he would constantly ask the question "why" and so often I thought I would go nuts. Little kids love to ask this question.. I think I am now being repaid, so you get to share in my adventure (or is that penance). We will either share our experiences or I will drive everybody totally nuts with my questions. Be patient with me.. :) I'm still learning.... Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Leslie Harris Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:46:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [none] "My instructor often pairs me for escapes and self-defense with a teen aged girl.... she's wondrously wimpy with these kind of techniques.... I long to be paired with some of the guys who approach their practice with more aggressiveness. It is of no use to me to be grabbed lightly and let go as I begin to make a move. I need to know if I can escape a serious grab. Most of the women in my class just can't or aren't willing to do that. I think instructors need to give heed that they aren't pairing just by gender and size, but by approach and skill levels." Posted byJoan Bostic 8th Gup, TSD Joan, I can sympathize, though not necessarily in terms of how we are paired (we make two lines and face each other and then rotate to a new partner for each new technique--your partner's skill level and enthusiasm are the luck of the draw). When I walked into my dojang 4 years ago (at age 28), I felt like I had found a new home. I love every aspect of my art. I enjoy the forms, the self-defenses, the sparring. I approach every training with the highest level of enthusiasm I can muster. Being paired with an opponent who is unenthusiastic or "wondrously wimpy" is frustrating. Nine times out of ten this opponent is a woman or a young teenager (of either gender). Worse, my enthusiasm for learning technique used to get me labeled a "maniac" (and believe me, I'm no such thing--I'm not overly aggressive, I'm not out to harm anyone, and I have a great sense of humor about class!). There just seemed to be a general attitude of "don't be too aggressive or serious." Very frustrating. I have recently moved into a role in the school where I spend a great deal of time teaching. This is a role I love. It is fun to be able to approach the "wonderously wimpy" from another perspective--inspiring them to new levels of strength. Perhaps the young woman doesn't understand the importance of being a strong and able partner. Perhaps she has never had an example set for her by a powerful woman. I have also learned that there is quite a lot of learning about hitting and being hit that most new folks have to go through (I had a vicious older brother--I was well-prepared!). Give your wonderously wimpy new partner time to learn and continue to set an example. Talk to her about why you perform techniques the way you do and insist that she try the same. As for never getting to partner with "the guys," that strikes me as patently unfair (if not downright sexist). I agree--we need to learn to defend ourselves against people the size of our most likely attackers. Certainly the big guys should be capable of performing techniques with enough control that they don't hurt anyone. Good luck! Leslie 1st Dan TKD ------------------------------ From: Ken Brown Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:25:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #116 Ray : >If you're gonna be there in the next few weeks you should start writing, >or better yet FAXing, soon. I'd see if your instructor's contacts in >the other cities can recommend some dojangs in Seoul as at least you'd >then have a connection of sorts. If you still can't find a school let me >know and I'll try to help. My friend David, who'd lived there for 4 years, offered to get in touch with some people for me beforehand, but again, I am a little concerned about the time issue, especially if he's not in class this weekend. This whole trip ended up coming together more quickly than I'd expected. I have a cousin who is a gymnastics instructor and practiced HKD years ago in the Korean Navy, who I am hoping can also give me a hand, but I'm trying to cover all the possible bases. Thanks, Ken Brown Chicago, IL ------------------------------ From: Renee Chizek Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:04:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Demotions Jamaica wrote: Has anybody in martial arts (any style) been demoted or stripped of rank? Have you or has anyone else that you know of kicked someone out of their school? Is demotion even possible in the martial arts? Yes I know someone who was kicked out of her school. Shortly after I = left my first school and started at my current dojang, another student = from my first school was kicked out because she was a "troublemaker". = The 'trouble'? She questioned the policy of socializing with the = instructors. It seems the instructors were not suppose to have anything = to do with the students outside of class. The problem started when she = invited the instructor to a 'We ran the marathon' party after a marathon = they were both particpating in. She questioned the policy and was told = by the owner of the school that he could not continue to teach someone = who was so 'disruptive'. Her daughter (8) was also kicked out. She now studies at my school and should be getting her black belt this = summer. Renee Chizek - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6188.9DD6D020 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA6AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL [70 lines deleted. Please do not send base64 encoding to the list.] AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAVwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHRoZV9kb2phbmdAaHB3 - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6188.9DD6D020-- ------------------------------ From: Peter Bardatsos Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:19:26 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: FINAL REMINDER * Taekwondo Training w/US Captains FINAL REMINDER! Tomorrow is the Big Day. Steven Lee and myself will host the 2nd Taekwondo Training Seminar. This is your opportunity to learn or even brush up on those techniques that will make the difference in getting GOLD at your next tournament! You will get tips from those competing next month at the Olympic & Panam Trials in Colorado Springs. As a note, the NY/NJ region has approximately 10 athletes trying out for the Panam Team, including the following: Peter Bardatsos, Steven Lee, Antony Graf, Gary Zee, Jin Suh, John Campos, Jennifer and Elizabeth Mohammed, Chrissy Adamo, Andrea Velasquez, and Wayne De Rosa. These are some of the top-ranked players in the US and most of the above mentioned names will be present TOMORROW. Below is the POSTING, which most of you have already seen. Hope to see you there! ********************************************************* Have you ever wanted to train and learn from the elite players and members of the US National Team, who will most likely be representing the US in Sydney? Well this is your chance! The Time has come! Get Ready for: State Championships, Junior Olympics, Senior Nationals, Team Trials, Panam/World Trials and the Olympics at Sydney. ******************************************************* 2nd Taekwondo Training Seminar by Peter Bardatsos and Steven Lee held in New Jersey on February 27, 1999 ******************************************************* Other National Team Members, Athletes, and Coaches that will be present include: Antony Graf, Gary Zee Jr., John Campos, Sean Burke, Jennifer Mohammed, Elizabeth Mohammed, Andrea Velasquez, Coach Mark Williams, and much more. Visit our website for more information - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1442/seminar.htm You must "Train with the Best to Become the Best!" - -- Sincerely, Peter Bardatsos 6-time US Team Member and US Team Captain Bardatsos Taekwondo ** http://www.bardatsostkd.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:10:43 PST Subject: the_dojang: Authoritarian Style - What Is It? > It also suits my authoritarian style of running class. Any thoughts on this topic?> Steven E Silz _________________________________ What does this mean to you personally or to anyone else that teaches in this fashion? I'm looking for specifics please and examples of how your class would be different than someone elses? And if someone else was not authoritarian than what are some names they would be described as? Thanks. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:14:49 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Journals, Logs, and Perhaps Diaries >From: "Jamaica Power" Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:03:11 PST >Does anyone keep a log or diary of their activities for themselves, >their children and perhaps the new generation of historians? Maybe >documented with pictures, too! >Thanks. I started out by keeping a log of what I did in class each day, but that has quickly turned into a simple attendance log, and a simple journal where I only make entries for "major" events, like testing, promotions, demos, special training classes, accomplishments (eg. broke X boards/bricks with XXX technique, etc) and *ouch* my injuries. This is for my personal records only. Stan Lim 3rd Kup, TKD San Jose slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:14:56 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cooking in the dojang In a message dated 2/26/99 10:32:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > P.S. All you need is an electric wok or frypan and some fresh > ingredients and a good instructor. Maybe just a little room and some > counterspace. Nothing big or fancy needed. One of my latest variations on meals are adding "Oriental flavor" to standards. For example, I will use a little pan spray in a frying pan, throw in a couple of handfuls of cashews, a little soy and a bunch of frozen peas and cook them up to serve with the main meal. The kids love cashews and it's nice intro to some new flavors for them with foods they will (marginally...sometimes...like peas) eat. Another trick is boiling up some ramen noodles to serve as a side (without the disgustingly salty packet spices) instead of potatoes. Sometimes I'll boil up chicken breast in chicken broth, shred it and stir fry it quickly with a little teriaki sauce and serve it over rice. My sweetie is *very* concerned that I might take a chinese cooking class and ruin dining out for him. ; ) But seriously folks...I have to be very conscious of what I cook due to Micah's kidney problems. He is on a low sodium diet (sodium promotes water retention and, if he's spilling protein, leads to severe edema which puts pressure on his internal organs) and I've had to learn to "work around" a lot of standard methods of cooking and food prep. I can use a little soy or teriaki for flavor since I'm preparing food for 4-6 people at a time. So please, emphasize to folks to watch what they are cooking with when teaching them Asian cooking. Some of that stuff can be really loaded for those on special diets. For example, those ramen noodles are high in sodium without the packets...imagine them boiling in that packet mix for a couple of minutes. They are also high in fat. Sometimes, I will substitute angel hair pasta for ramen in certain dishes if I know someone is coming to dinner that has a cholestrol problem. I have learned to use those pan sprays instead of oil, especially now that they have all sorts of variations like ones made from olive oil bases. I haven't seen any peanut oil ones yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see those soon or in an Asian market. Tang Soo! karla ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:30:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #116 RE: Demotion As I see it there are actually two separate issues here: 1. Demotion of a student that has been your student all along, and 2. Demotion of a student that came to your school having acquired a belt elsewhere. In the first case I have had students who had been out of my dojang for an extended time, say serving in the Navy, or something. I would not demote such a student, but I might have them attend lower level classes until which time their skill and condition permitted more vigorous classes. It is a more difficult scenario, however when a student who has learned elsewhere. Often what they have learned is substantially different from how we do things in my dojang. If this person is wise they will realize this almost immediately and ask to begin from white belt. By displaying this "empty cup" attitude said student has won my respect and I will place them in a class where I sense they will do their best. On occasion a new student may demand to begin at the belt they had attained in their old school. In this situation, I may attempt to dissuade them explaining it's best to learn a system form the very beginning, or I may let them try (knowing they will fail) to enter at the rank they believe they should be. Usually within a few weeks they see the light. Once in eleven years, after repeated attempts to modify an adult student's behavior, I made the hard decision to expel a student. And about four times in eleven years I denied acceptance to prospective students. These tough decisions were made in consideration of the other students of my dojang. As I see it, ultimately, a student's rank is solely the master's decision. As such, I think it is essential to evaluate each person and situation using good judgment to ensure the best outcome for the student. SE Silz ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:27:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Demotions Yep, I've been demoted. Received a gym black belt in Tang Soo Do, moved towns, started Taekwondo, started over at white belt. Then I received a gym black belt in Taekwondo, moved towns, started at a different Taekwondo school, started at 1st gup. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:27:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #117 ******************************** Attention USA WTFers! Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.