From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #128 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 3 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 128 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Taeguk 6 the_dojang: taegeuk 6 answers Re: the_dojang: Need Help W/ Taeguk 6 Form the_dojang: painful hips - advice anyone? the_dojang: Re: Taeguk 6 Form the_dojang: Moving Forward the_dojang: Re: lets hear more the_dojang: Re: response/Jamaica the_dojang: Tappity tappity ta-smack! the_dojang: re: Concealed Weapons the_dojang: Re: Help w/ Taegeuk 6 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #125 the_dojang: RE: BO-DAN?? the_dojang: RE: Defending others the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 the_dojang: Taegeuk 6 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 the_dojang: FMA & IMA the_dojang: Talk.Politics.Guns the_dojang: back home... ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Giddins Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:20:38 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Taeguk 6 Kevin, I had the same questions when learning the taeguks after coming from a TSD background. And Taeguk 6 was my favorite of the set, although I m still not a big fan of the Taeguks... (Sorry, had to slip it in there) I was taught to execute the roundkicks then move in to the block, seperate them completely. Step down, them move. The downward pressing blocks at the end, AND the wedging block in the middle of the form I was taught were "tension movements" meaning performed slowly and with tension, and exhaling slowly during the execution of them. Not quick or snappy movements. Good luck, hope this helps. Like I said, #6 was my favorite. It's probably the only one I could still do reflexively,even though I haven't done the Taeguks in over a year.... But the Pyung Ahns.... hey, now there's a topic. Lets talk about them! haahaa Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net ------------------------------ From: Fred Madero Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:11:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: taegeuk 6 answers Kevin Crane wrote: <<1. When I perform both middle target roundhouse kicks, do I place << the kicking foot down on the ground and THEN turn for the arm block, << OR do I pivot my body directly into the direction the block will << be going PRIOR to placing the kicking foot on the ground? For the first roundhouse (right leg) step down with right foot into an open stance for a brief moment facing the way you need to go (the roundhouse should have turned your body this way)then step forward with left foot into a left front stance and execute an outer arm block with left arm. For the second roundhouse (left leg with yell) step down with left foot(feet together, then pivot right on ball of right foot 270 degrees and step into right forward stance then right low block. <<2. Are the palm blocks at the end performed slowly or with some << degree of force prior to throwing the follow-up punches? We do these with force <<3. Do TKD form practitioners breathe out (loud enough for the < Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:34:54 -0500 Subject: Re: the_dojang: Need Help W/ Taeguk 6 Form At 01:06 PM 3/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: "KEVIN A. CRANE" >Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:54:31 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Need Help W/ Taeguk 6 Form > >Hi folks! I practice TSD forms and am learning a TKD, specifically Taeguk 6. I'd >really appreciate some advice on this form as I'm going to be doing it in competition >very, very soon. Please bear with me on this... > >1. When I perform both middle target roundhouse kicks, do I place the kicking foot >down on the ground and THEN turn for the arm block, OR do I pivot my body directly >into the direction the block will be going PRIOR to placing the kicking foot on the >ground? > Place the kicking foot down on the ground directly in front (north direction) of your pivot foot and then step your pivot foot into the block. >2. Are the palm blocks at the end performed slowly or with some degree of force prior >to throwing the follow-up punches? With speed and force. >3. Do TKD form practitioners breathe out (loud enough for the judges to hear) after >each movement or not? I usually do for TSD forms, however, don't want to do so if not >part of the TKD form. Exhaling on each technique is part of doing the technique well, BUT usually when I can hear someone exhaling they are using their mouth/cheeks to make the noise. The exhale should come from the diaphragm. >4. The movement where the arms are raised above the head and brought down to the >sides of the body...is this done slowly with a forceful move at the end, OR is the >whole movement done fast? If slow, about 2 - 3 seconds or so? This movement should be done slowly in sync with your breathing. When you bring your hands up, inhale, as you bring the hands down, exhale (3-5 seconds). I should mention that we do not raise the arms above the head. We instead cross wrists in front of the face to set up the technique. >Please feel free to pass on any other nuances that you feel will help me perform >better. You may provide any info to me directly to my email if you prefer. Thank you >all very much in advance! Hope my comments are helpful. >Best Regards, > >Kevin Crane __________________________________________________________ Mark M. Smith 4th Dan #5041993 Premier Taekwondo tele: (603) 424-3633 280 Daniel Webster Highway fax: (603) 672-1920 Merrimack, NH 03054 email: msmith@p2software.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick O'Brien" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:45:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: painful hips - advice anyone? I have been practicing TKD for about 1.5 years and although I am naturally fairly unflexible I have particular trouble with pain in the outside of my hips. The pain occurs most when attempting to perform the box splits, I do lean forward which helps a bit but it seems that its pain in my hips rather than my inner thighs/groin which stops me dropping my feet out further. I also experience pain there when pulling my knee up with my hand into a chambered position, and the day after training. I stretch most days after a reasonable warmup and have recently reduced the limits I push my stretch to but this has not really helped the problem. Also I am unable to do fighting round kicks - my hips are either completely turned over to a classical round, or in a front kick position. I would be very grateful for any advice, perhaps someone else has had the same problem? Is there any hope for me overcoming the problem in time? Patrick O'Brien TKD - blue tab ------------------------------ From: "CALLAHAN" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:15:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Taeguk 6 Form > 1. When I perform both middle target roundhouse kicks, do I place the kicking foot > down on the ground and THEN turn for the arm block, OR do I pivot my body directly > into the direction the block will be going PRIOR to placing the kicking foot on the > ground? > The kicking foot goes down in front first, then turn your body. > 2. Are the palm blocks at the end performed slowly or with some degree of force prior > to throwing the follow-up punches? > They are performed with force, yet under control. > 3. Do TKD form practitioners breathe out (loud enough for the judges to hear) after > each movement or not? I usually do for TSD forms, however, don't want to do so if not > part of the TKD form. > No breathing sound should be heard, except for the yells. > 4. The movement where the arms are raised above the head and brought down to the > sides of the body...is this done slowly with a forceful move at the end, OR is the > whole movement done fast? If slow, about 2 - 3 seconds or so? > Performed slowly for a duration of about 4 seconds > Please feel free to pass on any other nuances that you feel will help me perform > better. Take your time performing the form. Too many people rush through their TKD forms. For example -- pause for about half of 1 second between each motion. This is how we perform the form. There are always slight differences form one school to another (I've yet to understand why since it is a standard form for all WTF practitioners), so you may get some slightly different advice. Chris Callahan "Violence when there is an alternative, is immoral; Violence when there is no alternative, is survival" ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:22:28 PST Subject: the_dojang: Moving Forward Say you are a perfectionist, or at the very least you just take great pride in the correct execution of your particular techniques. Now you work and work with some of the students that all signed up about the same time and they are all working very hard but some of them are just not executing the kick properly or the hold, etc. Now in your heart you know people should learn to do techniques properly. But what guides you to move people forward. When do you say I know they can do better but... Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:18:59 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: lets hear more [snip]- > Learning a few self-defense tech. does not take all that long but HKD is not just a few. You learn or should learn about Ki development the principals of HKD, Wha, Won, Yu just learning those can take years. [snip] Master Todd could you elaborate a bit on these principles? I'm new to the art and have missed a few weeks b/c of illness. It'd be helpful to read-up on this. Dawne ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:33:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: response/Jamaica > My instant responses started reviewing the situation > the number of people, and how I would physically confront them > if something happened. > > Well I'm beyond chatty. And I probably didn't answer your question > cause I really didn't have a specific answer. Best I could do was share > experiences. > > Jamaica To the contrary you've *muddied my waters* with more to think about :) [you aren't secretly working for my philosophy prof. are you?] BTW, I ALWAYS (read 100% of the time) analyze a situation and think "what could I do? what should I do?" I just try to be ready and I CAN'T stand to see people mis-treated. My problem is that I really lack experience to pull from. I'll find myself thinking, "damn, her hand is in her pocket - there go the wrist grabs" and try to find a plan B. Thankfully I think quickly and haven't really had any trouble. I also don't go to bars or ever drink so I believe that cuts down the potential for trouble in my life. Well, its seems to me that your opinion is that this isnt' a function of gender but perhaps age or experience. I think you raise excellent points; however, I'm still thinking through my *gender hypothesis* and will keep looking into this. Also, being a mom I think that has a lot to do with changes we make in our activities and our approach to life. I think too we can be more aware of our own mortality b/c we have so much at stake. thanks ;0) Dawne-still waiting for easy answers to difficult questions ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:42:06 EST Subject: the_dojang: Tappity tappity ta-smack! << Here here!!! Sounds like a wonderful suggestion. And thanks Ray for keeping us on track. In our training we are taught to focus ourselves on what we are there for, and overcome all the distractions of every day life. I think we could do that here, too. Let's overcome the background noise and get workin'! Speaking of which, I work out in a school at a rec center gym and we have to shout over the sound of the attached raquetball courts, it gets pretty loud in there. Has anyone had to work out in a situation like that, and if so, did it affect your training? Teaching style? Were there any favorite ways to deal with this scenario? I miss my little quiet rooms, boo hoo. >> Greg-- Are there any legal ramifications kicking the partitions separating the tap dancers from the Taekwondo-ists? >^..^< Because I work out in a ballroom at the base Youth Center, that means there's a partition separating us from little tapdancers who tap the hell out of the floor and whose instructor overplays some songs to the point of extinction. The tapping is just unnerving.... probably because it's not in time to the music. My favorite way to deal with that is to respond with a couple of feral ki'aps to shake things up. (I scare people on both sides, so it works for me.) There's absolutely no way I can complain because it's a dancing class next door to us... might as well shake them up for good measure. However, when we have the gymnasium, it's a lot better because there are no tapdancers and the basketball players have to go elsewhere... which means we've got the court to ourselves to do all sorts of wonderful drills! :) Temperature is the main gripe on everybody else's list, but no perspiration, no benefits. It's like how Foxy Brown said in one of her songs: "You gotta work me to hurt me." (I think it was Foxy Brown, anyhow.) I guess it's all on how you adapt to your environment... some adapt better than others. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Jewell, David" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:01:00 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: re: Concealed Weapons Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com wrote .. >That said, I have often asked a friend who carries a .45 all the time if >he would use it to defend someone he did not know (convenience store >hold-up, etc.)......I pose that same question to this group: Would >you/have you used your art to defend a stranger? Would you, could you >(gee, I sound like Dr. Suess) step in to prevent an injustice? I don't know what reality in the USA is like at the moment but even Hollywood hasn't shown a member of the general public take out their concealed weapon to stop a criminal holding up the convience store/bank/etc. A plain clothed cop, yes, but not Joe Public. So, does it happen? I doubt it, so what's the point in carrying a weapon. Are you prepared to kill someone just to stop them stealing a packet of cigarettes? Here, Down Under, we have laws AGAINST carrying anything as a concealed weapon. Even day to day items such as an umbrella cannot be carried for the purpose of a weapon ("It's to keep the rain off officer"...."But it hasn't rained for 2 years" :-) ) Sure, criminals still use guns and knives to commit their crimes but they use them more as a threat than with any skill because they know that Joe Public will not be armed and therefore they are unlikely to get into a knife fight. As a martial artist I would rather use my art to tackle one of these unskilled crims than someone who has trained to be ready against the armed victim. As a criminal, if you thought that your victim was armed, wouldn't you cut first and ask questions later rather than risk an armed confrontation? An armed population just ups the level of violence to a higher plain. Here, because I very much doubt that someone having an argument is armed, I have no worries about stepping in to try and quell the situation. I am trained to duck. But if I thought weapons could be involved then it's another story. cheers DJ... ps: actually I do carry a knife at all times... I carry a Leatherman Tool in which the pliers look more threatening than the blade. :-) ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:28:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Help w/ Taegeuk 6 << 1. When I perform both middle target roundhouse kicks, do I place the kicking foot down on the ground and THEN turn for the arm block, OR do I pivot my body directly into the direction the block will be going PRIOR to placing the kicking foot on the ground?>> Blue belt still doing Taegeuk 5 (cuz it's so pertty)... scared to do Taegeuk 6... Okay, on those two moves, I execute the roundhouse, put my foot on the ground, and proceed on with the rest of the form. Don't know if it's right to do it like that, but I think it is.... << 2. Are the palm blocks at the end performed slowly or with some degree of force prior to throwing the follow-up punches?>> You don't want to look like you're tapping the imaginary opponent's foot so use a considerable amount of force so you don't look weak. << 3. Do TKD form practitioners breathe out (loud enough for the judges to hear) after each movement or not? I usually do for TSD forms, however, don't want to do so if not part of the TKD form.>> Some people sound like snakes, water sprinklers, the like (remember that thread?). Make sure the judges know you're breathing and not holding your breath. Whether or not you want your breathing to be audible is up to you, but make sure they have some idea of whether you're exhaling on every movement. << 4. The movement where the arms are raised above the head and brought down to the sides of the body...is this done slowly with a forceful move at the end, OR is the whole movement done fast? If slow, about 2 - 3 seconds or so?>> Do this part of the form SLOWLY and WITH A LOT OF POWER. If you do the movement fast, it shows absolutely no power, no matter how much strength you put into your arms. Do it slow and strong, with heavy emphasis at the end. You can't go wrong. << Please feel free to pass on any other nuances that you feel will help me perform better. You may provide any info to me directly to my email if you prefer. Thank you all very much in advance!>> No problem! You're very much welcome. Now, to add to Kevin's post: I was taught to ki'ap when you execute a roundhouse after the movement where you raise your arms above your head in an x-block and bring it down slowly. Now, my question is, do you ki'ap at the very end of the form after you do the knife-hand blocks and the palm-blocks with the reverse punches? I'm confused, which is why I don't do Taegeuk 6 in competition for the moment (Buddha has given me the insight that I will be a blue belt for a loooooooooooong time). Speaking of forms and competitions, how many of y'all have actually scared the judges and audience? At a recent competition, I managed to scare the panel of judges and the audience brilliant enough to sit close to the ring while I executed my form. :) :) :) :) :) Nothing feels better than scaring people. Let me know your experiences. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:28:23 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #125 << hey everyone.. in the past, i've noticed a pretty high corelation to knife owners and martial artists, so I thought I'd ask the group... how many of you carry one (or more!) knives on your person at a time? To start the discussion, I normally carry my benchmade ascent folder, and a cold steel mini pal (like a 1" long push dagger, think of it as a really nasty claw:) ) around my neck. For those of you in the states, do you also have a CCW permit? >> Knife? I carry a knife? Whoa... nope, not me. That is an interesting point... I don't know of any martial artists that carry knives on their person, but i have known a couple of my friends to give a knife to their non- MA significant other. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:08:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: BO-DAN?? We have a Dan-Bo provisional BB at Kim's Academy in Wichita, then progress to Cho-Dan. I may have mis-typed Dan-Bo as Bo-Dan, but then I haven't gotten any mail about it. Anyway, just wanted to be clear... Kerry Dan-Bo in April maybe?? If not, then October!! kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:18:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Defending others > That said, I have often asked a friend who carries a .45 all the time if > he would use it to defend someone he did not know (convenience store > hold-up, etc.)......I pose that same question to this group: Would > you/have you used your art to defend a stranger? Would you, could you > (gee, I sound like Dr. Suess) step in to prevent an injustice? > > Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com > I asked for everything so I could enjoy life. Instead, HE gave me life > so I could enjoy everything! > Haven't had to, hope that I could and would if I needed to. Also hope it would be an obvious situation and not one where it's not clear if jumping is going to make things worse. Anyway, this is a lot like the question I posted a while back and nobody jumped at... so I'll repeat it here to go along with Mark's query: In reference to the story of the young man who did not retaliate to the aggressor: Sorry I'm so slow to respond to this one, but I've been mulling it over for a few days. If I read the story right, the young man was in no real danger, and realized it. Now obviously a person may have to decide to fight to protect themselves or a loved one ( or a weaker one ), but that's responding to the immediate situation. Question: When does a person have the responsibility to respond physically in order to protect the _next_ person the bully may attack? ( and by extension, if it ever _is_ your responsibility, are you remiss if you don't? not legally... socially and morally ) If you put a side-kick in the bully's ribs, will it make him think twice about extorting lunch money from the class nerd with the slide rule? ( OK now, I can say that. I was one. ) I'm not advocating anything here, least of all any form of vigilantism, just want to know your thoughts. Kerry kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:00:04 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 > I beg your pardon Jahn Hancock, but this time you've went too far! > Comparing me to "Animal" from the muppets??????? > > I prefer Grover from Sesame Street. I look much more like him. > > Greg Giddins Greg....ya sure you wouldn't want to be compared to Elmo? You know...they have Elmo Karate T-shirts now. :-) LOTFLMSS (laying on the floor laughing myself silly) John Hancock ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:05:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 > > No. Like the Owl said, "The answer is '3'." ;-) > > But is that a chocolate or fruit flavored tootsie pop and did it have an > Indian shooting the star with his bow and arrow? ; ) Silly Rabbit......It had pink moons and green clovers....it was majickly delicious! :-P JH ------------------------------ From: Mike Heeney Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:08:28 +1300 Subject: the_dojang: Taegeuk 6 "KEVIN A. CRANE" asked about Taegeuk 6: >1. When I perform both middle target roundhouse kicks, do I place the kicking foot >down on the ground and THEN turn for the arm block, OR do I pivot my body directly >into the direction the block will be going PRIOR to placing the kicking foot on the >ground? Keeping in mind that others may vary a bit... We do the roundhouse kicks high, not middle. They are done on an angle about 45 degrees from the front/side - ie are done towards the front corner. After the first, the kicking (right) foot is placed down (NW direction), and then the left foot steps forward (in the direction West) into left front stance (left foot forward) for the left high block. After the second roundhouse, the kicking (left) foot is placed down (NE direction), and then the right foot sweeps behind and you pivot into a right front stance (ie right foot forward) for your right low block (direction West). >2. Are the palm blocks at the end performed slowly or with some degree of force No, and yes, in that order. >3. Do TKD form practitioners breathe out (loud enough for the judges to hear) after >each movement or not? Ask an ITF or a Rhee TKD person, and the answer is yes. But since you are doing a WTF form, the answer is generally no. But you can if you want to - nothing wrong with it. >4. The movement where the arms are raised above the head and brought down to the >sides of the body...is this done slowly with a forceful move at the end, OR is the >whole movement done fast? If slow, about 2 - 3 seconds or so? Yes, and no, in that order. The movement is done slowly, with tensed/strong/forceful arms. Here in NZ we do it to about a 7 or 8 count, a count being about 1/2 a sec so you want it to last about 4 seconds all up. Yes it has a forceful ending to this technique, but not too much. By this I mean your arms don't have a big obvious snap into place at the end - just a little obvious one... :) Mike Hamilton New Zealand. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~mheeney <-- me/myself/I - Taekwondo - Riverdance ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:09:26 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 > Mark wrote: > Has anyone been in a situation where they have been surprised, scared, > or otherwise taken off guard by someone they know? I am interested in > what the "natural" response was.....did you jump 10 feet in the air, or > assume a fighting stance and be on the ready? I can remember one time I was clearing a building during a burglary alarm run and when I kicked in the bathroom door there was a coat rack just inside that had a big yellow rain slicker hanging on it. Well...as you can imagine...the wind off the door flying open went up the rain coat and made the arms go up in the air flailing about. I though I was being attacked by the Gordon's Fish Man and nearly shot the coat. Silly me. :-) JH ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:22:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: FMA & IMA > Knife? I carry a knife? Whoa... nope, not me. That is an interesting > point... I don't know of any martial artists that carry knives on their > person, but i have known a couple of my friends to give a knife to their non- > MA significant other. I suspect most Filipino martial artists and Indonesian martial artists will carry one to three or four knives. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:28:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Talk.Politics.Guns > >That said, I have often asked a friend who carries a .45 all the time if > >he would use it to defend someone he did not know (convenience store > >hold-up, etc.)......I pose that same question to this group: Would > >you/have you used your art to defend a stranger? Would you, could you > >(gee, I sound like Dr. Suess) step in to prevent an injustice? > > I don't know what reality in the USA is like at the moment but even > Hollywood hasn't shown a member of the general public take out their > concealed weapon to stop a criminal holding up the convience store/bank/etc. There haven't been many, but, yes, a few. But then realize the types that 'run' and star in the film industry... Anyway, please take all future anti-pro gun talk to another forum. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:31:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: back home... Hello sunny California... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #128 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.