From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #132 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 5 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 132 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #131 the_dojang: Re: Korean Terminology Re: the_dojang: Korean terminology? the_dojang: TSD/SBD forum the_dojang: Re: Korean terminology? the_dojang: Re: finding a school/Karla the_dojang: different terms the_dojang: Re: Kim/ki-ahp the_dojang: a cute bit on ki-ahp & a ques. the_dojang: Re: Han Mu Do vs. Kuk Sool > the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #131 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #130 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #129 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:37:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #131 Hi guys, I really do love this forum and i'm learning a lot from you all. I wonder though, is there a forum which deals more specifically with tang soo do? Thanks very much. D. Ahearn ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Thu, 4 Mar 99 21:52:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Korean Terminology >where do these >differences in terminology come from when refering to the same >technique? An excellent question. FWIW, I agree that "mahk ki" is block, and that "hah-dahn" is low. Don't recall ever hearing of: >arae = "low" >hecho = "spreading/pushing" Being in South Texas, I think "hecho" means "made", as in "Hecho en Mexico." I too, have noticed wide variations in the use of Korean; for example, people tell me all the time that "tae" as in "taekwon-do" means "foot." Sorry, but I have been taught that "foot" is "bahl" ... Any native speakers around to help de-fog? Sincerely, Steven Gilmore San Antonio, TX ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:28:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Korean terminology? > My question: since these are all Korean martial arts, should we not all > be using the same terms? Being that we are not, do some arts have more > Chinese influence? [summarized from a disucssion of this topic a couple years ago] Yes, at least in the terminology used. The Korean terms that are often used in Tang Soo Do and some other arts are an older terminology set that has a hanja base, hanja = chinese characters. The newer terminology set is completely Korean, does not have a hanja base. Somewhere ~1977 the WTF started moving to the newer, more purely Korean, set of descriptive terms. Until then we used the older, Chinese influenced, set of terms in TKD. Many TKDers, especially those not affiliated with the WTF, will still use the older terminology. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:30:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: TSD/SBD forum > Hi guys, I really do love this forum and i'm learning a lot from you > all. I wonder though, is there a forum which deals more specifically > with tang soo do? Thanks very much. I believe the Soo Bahk Do folks have their own list/forum. But you have to be a member of GM Hwang's org to join. Other than that, I know of no TSD/SBD only list. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Mark M. Smith" Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 23:32:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Korean terminology? At 08:08 PM 3/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I can't help but wonder about naming conventions in general. In my TSD >days we used korean terminology all the time. Makki, I also know as >block. However, I remember something like "ha-dan makki" as a low block. >In this example it should be something like "arae makki"! > >In ATA TKD we use "poomse" to stand for form, but I have also see it >written in ATA books as Jahng. TSD we had "hyueng", such as our >"gicho-hyueng"....(sorry for misspelling). > >My question: since these are all Korean martial arts, should we not all >be using the same terms? Being that we are not, do some arts have more >Chinese influence? More North Korea vs. South Korea? Or where do these >differences in terminology come from when refering to the same >technique? I can think of three different explanations for the differences in terminology. 1) Ha-dan makki vs. arae makki - Different Federations in this case ITF terminology vs. WTF terminology 2) poomse vs. hyeung vs. jang - Different words for same concept the equivalent english might be: form vs. pattern vs. ???? 3) Tollyo chagi vs. Dollyo chagi OR poomse vs poomsae OR hyung vs. hyeung - When TKD first hit the US in late 50's early 60's there was not a generally accepted transcription (romanization) of hangul (korean alphabet). The TKD Masters were not in general linguists and so many different spelling of the same words came into use. Given a specific federation, such as the WTF, the terminology should be reasonable consistant. As someone else mentioned the Kukkiwon Textbook is a good reference. They have done a particularly good job on standardizing terminology, and using a linguistic based transcription system, in the current book. __________________________________________________________ Mark M. Smith 4th Dan #5041993 Premier Taekwondo tele: (603) 424-3633 280 Daniel Webster Highway fax: (603) 672-1920 Merrimack, NH 03054 email: msmith@p2software.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:41:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: finding a school/Karla In a message dated 3/4/99 3:47:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > I often find students (and former students) are the best references for a > place. Any and all info would be appreciated. > > Tang Soo! > > Karla Karla, I know nothing of Boston but have an idea. I was once advised to go to the school and ask parents questions about their experiences IN the parking lot. Get their free opinion privately with no one listening or watching. It may work. Luckily we found our school by word of mouth. But if that fails maybe this can be your plan B. Dawne ------------------------------ From: Aaron Harmon Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:49:39 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: different terms Perhaps the different terms are simply for the same technique are simply based on he fact that Korean is a language just like English, and they are probably just synonyms. Just think of the different ways that different English speaker would name the same block, I am sure that Korean is just as rich a language as English. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:54:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Kim/ki-ahp > In my research that I've been doing, I ran across a translation of "ki'ap." > What I picked up said it translates to "spirit shout." I guess the more > aggressive the shout, the more spirit you show... > > Now for a new question: Have you ever seen somebody totally tear up a form > and still win for it? (And we're assuming somebody else had a more > deafening > ki'ap.) > > Kim Jones "spirit shout". I like that better than ki-ahp. Now to your question. I (read nonexpert-newbie) have never seen a really bad form win for the sake of a mere ki-hap. FWIW, I also spend more time watching bb than color belts at tourneys. (BTW, my son doesn't compete so I feel no loyalty to watch any given group and face it, bb forms are "cooler" and more entertaining to some) One time I did see (again through unskilled eyes) 5 people doing Koryo. Having seen this form a number of times it is my opinion that they were all pretty even in skill. Also, IMO one woman in her final move and ki-ahp was too close to the judges table. One more step and she coulda decked em'. Her kihap and breathing in general had been superior. She won. Dawne -did I answer the ques. Kim? ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:02:35 EST Subject: the_dojang: a cute bit on ki-ahp & a ques. Folks, while we are on the breathing and ki-ahp thread I thought I'd throw this in. In our family we have a *secret family ki-ahp*. Of course I can't tell you what it is because its secret ;) but I will tell you it has 2 syllables :0) my son has always had trouble breaking. he stops just inches from the board so that he bounces off the board. [since he might get hurt and the board doesn't I think Boards CAN hit back, ha ha] It is interesting to note that if the master or GM holds the board he goes through it like butter. Usually tho the master is grading and a black belt or adult is holding the board. After 3 attempts the master will take the board and BANG its over and done. so we had discussion upon discussion of why we break and why we kihap. so thus was born the secret family kihap. this now works about 80% of the time so I say AMEN. In our first school the kids would snicker and this really ate away at his confidence. Now our GM will have none of that - no exceptions. So what do you other parents, teachers do about this type of kid? the kid who seems to spar well enough and has a good form but literally hits an obstacle when it comes to breaking? Thanks, Dawne ------------------------------ From: Ken Brown Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:07:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Han Mu Do vs. Kuk Sool > Mario asks: >Can anyone on this list share their knowledge of Dr. Kimm's Han Mu Do? >I know he was a high ranking Kuk Sool practitioner and came out with the >first book on the Kuk Sool. I am curious how different his style is >from Kuk Sool, any info would be appreciated. I study Kuk Sul, and attended one seminar given by Dr. Kimm. The techniques were very similar to KSW, and I would often say "okay this is like son mok sul #3" or whatever to the assistant instructor, and he would say "yes, it's basically the same". But I don't know how the curriculum is structured in relation to KSW. It may be similar, as Lee, Joo Bang's Hwa Rang Do is, or different. My Master told me, and a magazine article I read confirmed that, Dr. Kimm came up through HKD via Yudo, and then met GM Suh, and pursued KSW for a while. Then after mastery of KSW, he was encouraged by GM Suh to create his own style, which is now Han Mu Do. If I lived in the south, I would definitely seek out one of his schools. Ken Brown, Chicago, IL ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:48:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #131 My TSD instruction still uses the terminology that you recall: ha-dan - low area chong-dan - middle area sa-dan - high area >However, I remember something like "ha-dan makki" as a low block. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:48:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #130 No offense, intended, sir, but perhaps the need to return to the law serving the citizenry instead of the other way around is more urgent than even the need to learn restraint. >We are taught to use anything that is handy as a weapon to protect >ourselves. Anything that we use, even our hands and feet, can be >considered a dangerous instrument. We must learn not only the techniques >to defend ourselves, but also the restraint necessary to avoid going too >far. Learning technique is one thing, developing judgment is another. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:48:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #129 If I had time to sit down in the recliner and relax after work, I'd never make class. I don't have that luxury, er, problem. I get home at 5:30 and I leave for my 6:30 training class at 6:00. That leaves about enough time to bolt down a can of Ensure, refresh the deodorant, change clothes, and run. >So you come home and there's still another hour or two before class. >You are major big time dead tired. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:03:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #132 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! 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