From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #135 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 6 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 135 In this issue: the_dojang: Board Breaking/Board Holders the_dojang: balisong manual the_dojang: flooring surfaces the_dojang: Judging and forms, Ronda the_dojang: butterfly knives - legal? the_dojang: Self-Discipline/Learned Helplessness the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #134 the_dojang: butterfly knives. the_dojang: Re: Contacts / astigmatism Re: the_dojang: Judging and forms, Ronda the_dojang: Re: Korean Terminology the_dojang: Re: Taeguek 7 (Mark Smith) the_dojang: eyeglasses in the dojang the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #134 the_dojang: Eyeglasses, contacts, and astigmatism the_dojang: Dinner and optimal attention span the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:38:07 PST Subject: the_dojang: Board Breaking/Board Holders There are as many factors and techniques that a board holder should know as there are the person that breaks the board. If you are at a tournament it is best to bring your own board holders that you have worked with throughout the year. I have seen the best prepared, most excellent board breaks sent to ruins because they had board breakers from the audience, chosen at random. There truly are techniques for holding the board which will optimize the board breakers attempts and help them accomplish their goals. It is indeed a team effort. Not only should a board holder know how to hold the board (which direction the grain is going, how many knots in the board, how green the board is), but their stance should be solid (tell me which foot should be forward?) where they hold the board is crucial, left hand over right hand; if they remain constant when the breaker hits the board or if the flail and pull back, the tilt and direction at which the board is held for a particular kick; also the height at which the kick is executed. And I could go on and on and on and list at least 10 other essential criterion. If you know the competitor you will know the height at which their kick will land on the board. If you have someone from the audience (at random) they have no indication where the kicker will be placing the kick. This makes a significant difference. And this applies to children too. If it is a power kick and you need more than one person holding more than one board (or supporting the initial holder) these people must know where to place the support. Where they should place their hands, ie on the shoulders of the initial board holder, for optimal effect and opposing force. If you bring your own boards that is one story. If you must use the boards provided at the tournament then you should also be taught how to pick out the boards that will break for your technique. If you must use 3/4/5 boards piled together than you should also be taught how to pick out which boards to layer together to help you achieve your goal. The success of a board break is equal to the skill and knowledge of the person holding the board. Team work at its maximum. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com We can't run from who we are, Our destiny chooses us. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 00:53:18 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: balisong manual Hi Peter, Jeff Imada wrote two books called the _Balisong_Manual_ and the _Advanced_Balisong_Manual. I know that they're both available from Amazon. I've only got the first book but I've seen the second. They've got lots of detailed pictures and seemingly countless ways to open a balisong. I might add that I wouldn't try some of them as they involve throwing the balisong into the air and catching it. :) Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:57:28 EST Subject: the_dojang: flooring surfaces I can't leave all new topics for Jamaica can I? :) But the topic has come up in my private email that someone needs to do a study on flooring surfaces. The person who suggested it to me had blown her knee when the hard wood floor she was fighting on grabbed her foot like a suction cup and as her body pivoted - her foot didn't. SURGERY! I personally dislocated my knee on the vinyl covered padded floor. We had been working hard and sweating profusely. I did a roundhouse and prepared to come back with the same leg when my foot hit the puddle of sweat, my hip was already moving - the ball of the foot went one way with my kneecap and the hip and ligaments went the other direction. It wasn't pretty. Another friend substitute taught at a school that used wrestling mats (never use wrestling mats) he caught his toe in the mat as he tried to pivot and broke it and a couple bones in his foot as it all rolled over. You get the idea - so anyone have recommendation for the best flooring? I personally like aerobic floors - the ones that are made to cushion. And I really despise indoor/outdoor carpeting - as a white belt my feet bleed for a couple months trying to build callouses to tolerate it. We then went to the vinyl floor covering over some pretty soft padding. Branch school students couldn't keep their balance at testing - and we had a LOT of people blow out knees. So anyone know of any such studies etc......... Ronda J. Sweet ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:01:25 PST Subject: the_dojang: Judging and forms, Ronda It is pretty easy to tell usually if someone was taught wrong - for which many referees will not penalize or if they make a mistake. Ronda ________________________ Great post and thanks, but what I've observed is that even if they don't "deduct" in the traditional sense they will score a person significantly lower even if the form was executed to perfection, if that form is not executed as the judge was taught. So, perhaps not a deduction but a lower scoring which will cause the student to lose anyway. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 01:02:24 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: butterfly knives - legal? Hi Peter, I forgot to mention something which Ray brought up regarding the legality of owning butterfly knives. Here's a page you can check out that might answer some of your questions : http://www.kiddspage.com/balisong/faq.html Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:37:49 PST Subject: the_dojang: Self-Discipline/Learned Helplessness Do you think children/adults in the U.S. have less self-discipline in learning the martial arts than other countries and is it also coupled with learned helplessness. Or do you think we have every degree of stamina and determination than any other country, and then some? What would be U.S. strengths/weaknesses over other countries? Do you think the group classes work better as opposed to individual training in the martial arts? Do you think the group classes/teamwork approach has significant benefits over one-on-one instruction or are we just trying to mimick the eastern approach to teaching, and additionally perhaps reap the economic benefits? And lastly to those that have taught for a number of years; what have been the most significant changes in the students that you have witnessed in your teachings over the years and what adjustments have you had to make to accomodate this new style of student. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 11:32:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #134 > raising it to about chin level, in Taeguek Chil (7) Jang, is simply a > pause to collect yourself? There is no other meaning behind it? > Also, the same is true in the middle of Koryo? No other possible > meaning? > Chris Callahan > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > One of my instructors taught me that in Koryo this physically was a move > to collect yourself but the action was the representation of the sun and > enlightenment and should be done slowly and respectfully with quiet > strength. > > Jamaica See....it is crap like this that makes me not respect these NEW TKD forms. They are put together like pieces of a puzzle by a retarded person. There isn't a single move in the CLASSICAL forms that is for just Meditative or Show purposes. It is no wonder that the majority of TKD practitioners in this country have to spend 15 years studying before they can halfway keep from getting the floor mopped with their ass by some guy named stinky that never took a lesson but fought every day on the playground. Once...I was practicing with a TKD school and after class I asked several of the Black Belts (these were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dans) if they'd like to bring some gear some night and put on the pad and do some contact sparring. This one black belt said..."OH no! We couldn't do that. It would be tooo dangerous. I can break four boards with a side kick. If I kicked you in the ribs it would break them." AND HE WAS SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. I almost hated to inform him....I won't be standing bracing my un-protected ribs for him to kick....and I plan on hitting back unlike the boards. OK..so I pisses some of you off with my statements. YOu should expect that from ME by now (just ask Glenn - ha!). But I can't stand to see people led down a path that will get them hurt in the worst way and lead to a lot of humiliation and disappointment when it can be prevent. JH ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:09:59 EST Subject: the_dojang: butterfly knives. In a message dated 99-03-06 11:03:51 EST, you write: << What is a good video/book for learning how to open butterfly knives? Are certain knives better for beginners? I have always been fascinated by the speed with which some folks are able to open these knives. >> I pretty much learned how to work one on my own, but I did pick up both of these books years ago. "The Balisong Manual" by Jeff Imada (Know Now Publishing) (The guy you see in a lot of movies, and I heard he's the one who works the balisong in the new movie Payback, but I haven't seen it yet.) It has some good pics of opening moves. He wrote the Advanced Balisong as well, but I don't have that one. "Balisong: The Lethal Art of Filipino Knife Fighting" by Sid Campbell, Gary Cagaanan, and Sonny Umpad. (Paladin Press) It has some opening moves as well. Michael Janich has a video out through Paladin Press "Mastering the Balisong Knife" I have not seen this video, but I know Mike and he is good with a blade. I think this is the video that he told me he filmed while in Thailand, so the quality of the production was not like the quality of the newer Paladin videos. (which is quite good now, we were using the digital cameras when we filmed my video last year) So while the tech quality might not be the best, I'm sure that Mike shows some good stuff, since he does know how to use a blade very well. But again, I have not watched this video. Interesting story: Last semester in my Criminal law class, we read a case where a man was killed with a Butterfly knife. I asked the instructor if she knew what one was, she did, but had never seen one. I brought one to the class when we discussed the case. She asked the class if they knew what one was and many didn't. So she asked me to demonstrate. It was a big hit. You can oreder these books and many more from my website: The Tao of Warriorship http://members.aol.com/ABurrese/index.html Hope this helps. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Li-Wei Chen" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:53:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Contacts / astigmatism Kim wrote: >I also have an astigmatism and wear glasses (although, it does sound like your >vision is much more impared than mine) and recently got contacts for class, >sparring, competition. Contacts are available for folks with astigmatism, but >they must be special ordered and are fairly expensive. I paid approx. $170 >for a six month supply of soft contacts (since I usually only wear them for >MA's they actually have lasted about 15 months to date). The contacts also >compensate for the astig. through size and shape. This means that there is a >right side up and down to each lens (found by small marks on the lens) and >they must be lined up right when they are inserted. It is a pain in the neck >at first, but you get used to it pretty fast. It is nice to see while >sparring. Just to add a short note to this: assuming that you're talking about soft contacts, the toric lenses that are usually prescribed for people with astigmatism do indeed have a correct orientation (with the neat marks and everything!), but AFAIK don't need to be lined up when inserted; they're manufactured to settle into the correct orientation after a few blinks. I think the marks are there more for the optometrist to check how well they're orienting in your eye after you've put them in. And yes, toric lenses are much more expensive than regular contacts (sigh). After getting used to them, though, I can't imagine going back to wearing glasses during class, much less in sparring :) >One further note, someone pointed out the other day, safety aside, it is not a >good idae to wear glasses during sparring since, in real life, they will most >likely be knocked off almost immediately during a fight. Hummm....... food >for thought. That's also a good point to consider for people like me who usually wear glasses but change to contacts for class -- in a real fight, I'd almost certainly be wearing the glasses, not the contacts. Li-Wei l.chen@utoronto.ca ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Judging and forms, Ronda > "deduct" in the traditional sense they will score a person significantly > lower even if the form was executed to perfection, if that form is not > executed as the judge was taught. So, perhaps not a deduction but a > lower scoring which will cause the student to lose anyway. Unfortunately, it is seldom you'll see people from differrent schools doing the same form the same way. Judges, or at least the experienced ones, realize this. Many instructors feel the need to 'correct' portions, however small, of the forms as the correct way doesn't make sense to them... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: 6 Mar 99 20:43:36 MET Subject: the_dojang: Re: Korean Terminology >where do these differences in terminology come from when refering to the= >same technique? = >I too, have noticed wide variations in the use of Korean; for example, = >people tell me all the time that "tae" as in "taekwon-do" means "foot." = >Sorry, but I have been taught that "foot" is "bahl" ... >The Korean terms that are often used in Tang Soo Do and some other arts = >are an older terminology set that has a hanja base, hanja =3D chinese >charac= ters. The newer terminology set is completely Korean, does not have >a hanja ba= se. Yes, in Korea there are two words for pretty much everything, a "Sino-kor= ean" and a "Korean". So for instance numbers can be "hanna, dul, set" or "il, = i, sam" Most words can be used interchangeably but the higher educated the person= , the more Sino-Korean words they tend to use. Foot can be "pal/bahl" in Korean or "chok" written in hanja. The T'ae character in Taekwondo is very rare and actually very few Koreans knows i= t. In English it means "stomping in the ground", I think it's pretty much accep= ted now that it was chosen because it was the Chinese character closest in pronunciation to Tae(k) from "Taekkyon" with still a little bit of "leg connection". Carsten Jorgensen = hwarangdo@usa.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ From: "Mark M. Smith" Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:07:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Taeguek 7 (Mark Smith) At 05:18 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Are you saying the motion of bringing the right fist into the left palm and >raising it to about chin level, in Taeguek Chil (7) Jang, is simply a pause >to collect yourself? There is no other meaning behind it? > >Also, the same is true in the middle of Koryo? No other possible meaning? > I think you can analysis poomse on a number of levels. On one level the poomse is a one vs. many sparring exercise. When analysis from this point of reference every move has a physical application (ie block the kick, punch the body, etc.). This is what I was commenting on. The covered fist in Taeguek Chil (7) Jang is a special jumbi (ready) stance. It is used to prepare for an attack. Now poomse also have more abstract meanings. The Taeguek poomse represent the eight different combinations of um and yang, each with its own meaning. While I have often heard symbolic interpretations of the moves in a poomse, I have not found a consistant set of interpretations or a authoritative source for the interpretations. So on the physical level the covered fist is a ready stance, but I will not argue with any more symbolic interpertations. The multi-dimemsional nature of poomse is one of the things that make them so important to TKD. Does anyone know of any authoritative sources for symbolic interpertation of the moves in the WTF poomse? __________________________________________________________ Mark M. Smith 4th Dan #5041993 Premier Taekwondo tele: (603) 424-3633 280 Daniel Webster Highway fax: (603) 672-1920 Merrimack, NH 03054 email: msmith@p2software.com ------------------------------ From: "Jana Lise" Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 12:52:14 PST Subject: the_dojang: eyeglasses in the dojang On the issue of eyeglasses while training and astigmatism: I have to join ranks with those in contacts and with astigmatisms. I used to train with my glasses, but once sweat kicked in (no pun intended:) I found that my glasses wouldn't stay on my face, though I'm way too near-sighted to take them off...so I got contact. Because of my near-sightedness I can't wear disposable (they don't come strong enough), but my astigmatism is corrected by a weighted lens, so the light (as mentioned before) is always directed correctly, and the lens always hangs right. Tang Soo! Jana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:10:54 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #134 Ronda writes: > 7. And when/if you screw up - BLUFF IT. They probably missed it if you don't > tell them you did it. To give people an example of how true this is I can relate what happened to me last year as I was getting ready for my first tournament. I was to do Pyung Ahn Cho Dan (form four in TSD) and was practicing in front of a red belt (he was getting ready to test for his black), a 3rd Dan and a 4th Dan. At the end of the form, the Master went first with his comments, then the third dan and finally the red belt. The red belt looked a little uneasy during the comments. I did the form again, taking their comments into consideration and then, when finished, they all went through again....most of them were "great, you really remembered..." Finally, the red belt said, "I don't know if I'm right or not, but shouldn't there be a chop in there between..." He had been getting himself ready for his black belt test so he had been working through all his forms. I had missed a chop in the form but, according to the Master, I had done my form so forceful and with so much conviction, he hadn't even noticed. When I was performing with the dance troupe years and years and years ago, we used to be told to "smile and keep dancing" no matter what. It was amazing the performances we thought were *sooooo* bad that people absolutely loved. That training helped me so many years later when competing during the tournament. Tang Soo! Karla ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:21:50 EST Subject: the_dojang: Eyeglasses, contacts, and astigmatism Thanks to everyone who contributed information. I really appreciate the replies and helpful information. One last question on this subject: Supposing I do decide to go for goggles (I also play roller-hockey with my friends), what price can I expect for a decent pair? Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:27:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Dinner and optimal attention span << You don't know how many times I wished Ben could take class in the a.m. Saturday sessions he seems to be more awake, less hungry and happier to be there. Lets face it. 5pm is usually the earliest class but to little people it is often right in the middle of dinner. 6 is no better b/c you have to rush like crazy or be late. Our family had to shift our day's routine to incorporate the MA. 5:30 dinner has become 6:30 or worse, 7pm just so the family can eat together. I know a family who eats at 10:30. Of course their kids are older. >> Since I'm still under the wing of my parents, dinner during the week is pretty much whatever my mother prepares or leaves instructions for as the meal of the evening. Class for me starts at 1745 so I have to eat right when I get home (approx. 1515) or at least an hour before class so that I don't have any gastrointestinal problems (approx. 1645). But then I have this bad habit of eating when I get home at about 2015 because I get hungry again... generally, it is a VERY bad idea to eat after 1800. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:36:34 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #127 >That said, I have often asked a friend who carries a .45 all the time if >he would use it to defend someone he did not know (convenience store >hold-up, etc.)......I pose that same question to this group: Would >you/have you used your art to defend a stranger? Would you, could you >(gee, I sound like Dr. Suess) step in to prevent an injustice? > >Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com Yes, I would. But that doesn't always mean the same thing. Sometimes the most effective way to step in is to run and call 911, or attract attention if there are other people around, and these options will probably be more commonly useful than stepping in and using your own physical force. Though, if that were the only option I would do that too. - -- tokay@netwurx.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:19:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #135 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.