From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #139 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 8 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 139 In this issue: the_dojang: Working the techniques from forms the_dojang: Re: New vs. Classical Forms the_dojang: Snaping Kick the_dojang: Death matches the_dojang: Re: rejected addresses the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 the_dojang: Do Your Students Watch Your Test? the_dojang: Belts on the floor and more the_dojang: Re: tearing a form and still winning the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #137 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aaron Harmon Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:06:47 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Working the techniques from forms I was wondering about forms, I know that alot of us practice forms, and that apparantly a number of those who practice form know the applications to the movements, but how many us actually ever take the applications out of the forms and practice them with a partner as techniques or one-steps? I have seen alot of "forms are useless" vs "forms are full of wonderful technique" arguements, but I have never heard of, nor seen someone take the techniques from their forms and actually drill them with a partner. I know that in other systems (in Choy Lay Fut I have seen this) the techniques are taken right from the forms and practiced with a partner like a one-step which would seem to add a lot more value to the solo practice of the forms (they also have two-person forms which are soooo cool!). I realize that not every movement has a martial application (there are a lot of Yoga-like breathing movements in ours), but simply knowing that move #1 is a block and move #2 is a wristlock is a lot different than actually practicing movements one and two with a partner. And after the times when we have done this (usually on my own, outside of class), my forms change, even if the application that I knew all along was the same one we practiced, the form makes more sense now that I have done the technique to someone. Does anyone else do this sort of practice? and is it done on a regular basis? Does anyone have two-person forms? Aaron Harmon ------------------------------ From: "CALLAHAN" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:18:48 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: New vs. Classical Forms > > I don't understand how practicing NEW TKD forms vs. CLASSICAL TKD forms has > > any bearing on ones ability to fight. Wouldn't it be related a little more > > to the sparring and self-defense practice? > > DUHHHH! So sparring and self defense have no bearing on fighting ability > then?See....it is no wonder so many black belts get embarassed in their > first real fight with this kind of thinking. Mr. Hancock, Perhaps we are misinterpreting each others posts, or maybe it's simply my inability to understand what is being said. Because, I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement. Then again, maybe it is my inability to express myself clearly. What I'm trying to say is -- With proper sparring and self-defense practice one should develop a reasonable ability to defend themselves in a real fight, regardless of what type of forms they practice. I don't see how self-defense is directly related to the type of forms that you practice. If I understood your statements correctly, you believe differently. If I am way off base here, please let me know. Chris Callahan "Violence when there is an alternative, is immoral; Violence when there is no alternative, is survival" ------------------------------ From: dgordon@sadira.gb.nrao.edu (David Gordon) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:23:02 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Snaping Kick Who developed the snapping-style kick??? As opposed to the straight-legged type kick??? - -- David, 1st Dan, TKD ------------------------------ From: "Jana Lise" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:58:35 PST Subject: the_dojang: Death matches >>Many have probably heard of the 'death-matches' that were held between Filipino schools, and also the street-fights that took place among the early Hawaiians. I'm wondering if Koreans ever determined who was the better teacher or fighter by challenging others? Would these challenges have taken place within or among the kwans, or even different Korean styles? It's always one way to attract more students....>>> >>>Yes...some of these do have deaths occuring out of them.>>> I've heard of 'death matches', but never really thought that they existed. Maybe I thought it was something that only happened in the movies, or something. But the question I want to ask is: Are they permissible by our art? To quote from someone's signature...violence without a reason is immoral. Maybe in my ignorance of the reason for such matches I'm interpreting them wrong. It seems like the philosophy of our art doesn't teach us to go out looking for fights, or to go killing someone for the sake of simply showing who has the better skill (showing off). I understand that way way back MA was used for defense and battle, etc., but today that doesn't seem as necessary... Does anyone else see where I'm coming from, or can shed light on the reason for such matches? Jana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:28:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: rejected addresses FYI, two folks have mentioned that their mail to the list (either the_dojang or eskrima) has been bounced back to them. The following describes why that occurred, at least in one case. In short, some addrs are being filtered out because those orginating sites have been used in the past to relay SPAM. Not you the user, but the site you're routing through. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Subject: Re: rejected address > Could this be related to the anti-spam work you mentioned awhile back in > hp.mail? Yep. ORBS is a list of open relays which have been used to relay SPAM. By using their service, we get fairly rapid blocking of relay sites, and nearly automatic removal as they fix their problem. Centralization is a good thing. The bad news is that we can have a slightly higher false positive rate, since some of the open relays out there also happen to pass business mail. Our preference is that hte open relay site fix their mailer and get removed from ORBS that way, rather than poking a hole for them: after all, they have been used as an active relay, or they wouldn't be in the database. See www.orbs.org. > > Diagnostic code: smtp; 550 Service unavailable; blocked using relays.orbs. > org Whatever IP address connected to onet2, it was listed in the ORBS. > > Remote system: dns; onet2-y.cup.hp.com > > (TCP|208.210.201.7|51756|15.255.208.3|25) (onet2.cup.hp.com ESMTP Postfix) > (onet2.cup.hp.com) It would appear that 208.210.201.7 (mail.telapex.com) is listed as an open relay. If they have corrected things such that this is no longer true, they should visit www.orbs.org and follow the links to the process for removing themselves from the list. > the_dojang is a dist list I admin. I continue to get e-mail directed to it, > so I'm confused as to why this one was rejected. It was sent to me by the > original submitter. It's the client address, not the destination that caused the rejection. ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:21:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 > Subject: the_dojang: Korean wrestling > > Is there any form of Korean wrestling? I realize that judo is very popular > in Korea, but I have this vague memory of something similar to wrestling > and judo, but it was an older Korean style. Does anybody what I'm talking > about, and what the differences would be between this and Japanese styles > of grappling? > > Emil Fisk Yes, it is called Ssireum. It is an off shoot of Mongolian Belt Wrestling. Do a web search and you should find something on it. I think there is even a video available through Turtle Press on the style. JH ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:22:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 > Come on John, why are you holding back? You're getting mellow in your old > age - go ahead and open up and tell us how you really feel . > > Master Mac Hey Mac! :-P JH ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:30:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 > From: Greg Giddins > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:15:32 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: Forms (i.e. "My dad can beat up your Dad") > > They "run deep", to study and practice, certainly they are forms that give as much > back to the practitioner as is put in to them. > > I guess the value of a form all depends on the application you apply it to. > > And then there's the issue of instruction..... even the TSD forms can be > meaningless if taught by a bad instructor. But that's another post, eh? > > Greg Giddins > ggiddins@ossinc.net MY GOD!!! I THINK I LOVE YOU!! (the man is a genius ;-) JH ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 12:06:12 PST Subject: the_dojang: Do Your Students Watch Your Test? When going for a higher level of blackbelt do you let your students watch all parts of your test? Does your GM care? Do you invite your students and parents and friends to watch? I ask this because once I had an instuctor that didn't want the students to watch. The drive was only a couple of hours away so travel wasn't the issue. So nobody went. I was just wondering what the protocol was in other schools and styles of martial arts. Do you have a celebration afterwards with your GM? Thanks Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 12:11:25 PST Subject: the_dojang: Belts on the floor and more I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who winces when I see a trail of old belts strewn across the floor of the dressing rooms. JB ________________________________ And this made me think of something else regarding respect and such and manuals. When I first started martial arts I was taught that every time you approached a black belt you bowed and that you never walked in front of the higher belt, you always walked around behind them. Is this still taught in the schools or are things more informal now? Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:21:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: tearing a form and still winning In a message dated 3/8/99 11:00:34 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << This really brings up the subject that I (being a TKD blue belt) have wondered about. How can such different styles be judged fairly against each other. Not knowing anything about TSD, all, and I mean ALL the TSD folks doing forms just looked sloppy to me. This isn't a criticism, I realize that the styles are quite different. I just don't see how anyone who wasn't very experienced in both arts could fairly judge. My instructor seems to believe, apparently with some justification that energy and drama do count for a lot at tournaments and encourages his students who participate to turn things up a couple of notches. >> ron, welcome to the list. unfortunately, you have a good point. i saw some forms this weekend that i didnt know. i was told that there would possibly be pyong ahns, and even some kung fu forms in there. all i know are the taegueks and koryo, chun ji and dan goon. however, like i said before, i didnt grade down just because i didnt know these forms. that would be pretty damn*d vain. what i looked for in these other forms was technique, style, and attitude of participant. i also looked at consistency. again, master sweet has a good point that the competitor will tell you if they screwed up. not verbally, but with their actions and attitude. i saw a kid whom i wouldve graded down simply because he did an extra punch/kick at the end, then backstepped, then shook his head _furiously_ and then hung his head in shame while occasionally shaking. his form was excellent. his attitude stunk. i dunno. it might not be fair to have inexperienced folks grading on forms theyve never seen. but maybe not. if they have strong technique (solid, snappy punches and kicks or slow, kinooki style when required), great attitude and ma spirit, and look like they know what theyre doing...they'll score high, regardless of their ma discipline...... at least in front of me (and that's the kicker, eh?...lol) melinda chunjido@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:34:39 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #138 << Althoug the "sine wave" haunts me...haa haa. >> Whoa... why does that look so familiar (besides the fact that I had to graph those in trig not too long ago)? Could someone please explain the "sine wave" because I am probably thinking of something completely unrelated. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:34:38 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #137 <> Hey... you weren't supposed to tell nobody! :) Proteins, carbs? Aye yai yai... since my mother is from Korea, Korean food looms heavy in my diet... and I've been trying out a pure Korean diet regimen.... of course, this means someone has to buy me bottled water at lunch so I don't keel over from a lack of food... but I think I could run out the cafeteria if they could only catch a small whiff of some of the things that come out of my kitchen. *evil grin* I made the switch primarily to watch my weight because when I don't eat my rice and veggies (which, to my mother's dismay, started happening with greater frequency), I gain mad weight. It's all a matter of "mind over body." Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com P.S. - BTW, does anybody have any information whatsoever about the Armed Forces TKD teams? While I am a military brat, I have absolutely no information available to me (sad, isn't it?). Any information will be greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:55:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #139 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.