From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #146 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 11 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 146 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: pressure/Doug the_dojang: Full Circle the_dojang: Re: forms judging the_dojang: Re: good one Piotr the_dojang: Registering hands the_dojang: Forms -vs- Dancing - Actual Fighting the_dojang: The Gentleman Factor the_dojang: I am not prejudice.....you are all equally worthless in my eyes! the_dojang: Re: V6 #145: Switching Belts the_dojang: Re: V6 #145: The Gentleman Factor & Self Preservation the_dojang: Acknowledging Volunteers! the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:03:02 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: pressure/Doug << I have been taking TKD lessons since the 1st week of January. To give you some background on me, I am a athletic 32 year old male. I seem to be taking to the lessons very well and look forward to the next. Lately, my master is doing the full-court-press on me to sign up for the sparring part of a competition being held in a couple of weeks. I am starting to think that he is only concerned about cash flow! . Each week, in sparring class, I am continually the punching bag for higher belts. There is no one of the same rank in the class. My moves are slower, not as advanced and I'm having difficulty with strategy of fighting in general. My body doesn't move as fast as my mind. Not having ever competed before, should I sign up? I don't want to be embarrassed. Thank you for any help. Doug C. >> Doug, While fear of embarrassment is a very normal I, IMO, don't think that is your biggest concern. I have picked up on various things. First of all the pressure. For having started in Jan. you have to consider what kind of style or approach you can handle in a Master for years to come. In my LIMITED experience I have visited 4 schools that I feel I know pretty well. None of these schools allow sparring until yellow belt which I've seen take 2-5 months depending on the person. Secondly, I completely understand your feeling of being the punching bag and not getting enough on strategy and technique. I had the very same woes a few months ago. They led to frustration and then a level of resentment. I felt like my focus for each 2 min. match was to "survive" in the sense of dodging a lot and getting off one good hit to save face! Now in this new school I see that sparring is approached differently and feel like I am practicing something each match, NOT just trying to be a moving target. There are many on this list who are accomplished competitors. They may (or not) advise you to do and get the exp. and have fun, etc., They may say that going and losing is part of *paying your dues*, or building spirit. I say that losing teaches a person something, ONLY if you can learn something from it. You mention that in your school everyone is a higher belt. Well, in this tourney will anyone be at your level? Fighting a stranger adds a sense of unpredictability too. I don't compete b/c I've seen so many *take 'em out * mentalities in the ring. I know how my GM teaches but I cannot vouch for theirs. Also, you may want to think about how sparring is approached at your dojang. I am comfortable w/ the higher belt having the RESPONSIBILITY to spar-down to my level. If a red belt fights me like another red belt and I'm just an orange belt - NO good can come from that. It becomes a FIGHT and not a learning exp. Good luck with your decision. Let us know how it turns out, Dawne ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:24:32 PST Subject: the_dojang: Full Circle Thought this was interesting. Over time we've expressed quite a few thoughts on how many of the schools are now less formal in how they are run, how they address the Master Instructor, bowing to blackbelts, etc etc etc., than from years ago. Well anyway I have been in correspondence regarding this issue from some of my younger martial artist peers that have a good 10 years logged into the arts. Well guess what,,,across the board they have expressed that they liked the discipline, the structure, the formality, and what they call the etiquette of martial arts that makes it so unique from other sports like basketball. They also expect this from their coaches. They also have concerns should the informality continue. They enjoy the "old school ways" of teaching. I just thought this was interesting coming from our future leaders and Master Instructors of the arts. Just a little FYI is all. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:49:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: forms judging With all this talk of seminars, learning how to judge, etc.....I have to chime in and indicate that the ATA has a very formal program of certifying judges. There are three levels that go from Corner Judge, through Center Judge and Chief Judge. - -Corner Judge - can corner judge color belt rings, must be 1st degree and at least 12 years old - -Center Judge - can center judge color belt rings, and corner judge BB rings, must be 1st degree and at least 14 years old - -Chief Judge - can Center/Corner judge all rings, must be 2nd degree and at least 16 years old At no point can you be a judge for a rank above your own! Each Judge wears the appropriate chevron(s) on their right sleeve - a clear indication of meeting qualifications for judging (this solves the belt switching problem). Certifications are good for one year. REGARDLESS OF RANK, you MUST recertify every year. Certification involves a seminar-like environment where all the rules, scoring, protocol, etc. are reviewed AND practiced. At the end of the seminar, you must take a written exam for *each level of certification*. In other words, if you are retesting for Chief Judge, you must take, and pass, all three exams. Exams cover rules, scoring, safety, how to setup free sparring matches, forms competition, etc. All told, there are a total of about 120 questions. Certifications are tracked and maintained by Headquarters --- in fact, if you order a new uniform, and your certification has expired, your uniform will arrive without the chevrons! This, IMHO, is one of the many benefits of a large organization like the ATA - the processes that are in place to help ensure quality. Granted, this process does not guarantee a quality judge, but is does ensure that they have a complete understanding of the rules! Personality and style of the Center Judge will be major factors in the environment in any particular ring, but the rules remain the same! The Center Judge is in complete control of the ring, but has an equal standing with the other two judges in awarding points! I find this is a very good program, and leads to some very good tournaments, which, by the way, ALWAYS have medical staff on hand to assist with any medical situation that may arise. In the spirit of TKD... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com I asked for everything so I could enjoy life. Instead, HE gave me life so that I could enjoy everything! ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:09:18 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: good one Piotr << And, many of TKD people in Poland prefer to do Polka (which is a Czech dance) than to waste their time arguing whether each other`s patterns are useful or not :)... - -- Piotr Bernat >> loud, thunderous applause for that one!!! ------------------------------ From: K.P.Beckett@sussex.ac.uk (Kevin Beckett) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:17:11 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Registering hands Dear Dojang, > From: Aaron Harmon > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:41:43 -0800 > PS. Maybe this brings up another subject. Has anyone ever run into > someone (outside the dojang) that claims to have a black belt, but upon > further investigation was lying? At your day job, or whatever... This reminds me of a bloke I bumped into after a kick-boxing class I was attending. He had been participating as a white belt in the adjacent Aikido lesson and was then watching us from the sidelines. I noticed that he was wearing a SBD/TSD patch and so approached him after the lesson asking him who he had trained with. It turned out that he had trained with my SBD master (then TSD) but left due to the 'inherent flaws' in the style. I quickly realised that the boy (19 years old I later learned) was a prat, but was interested to hear that he had developed and registered his own 'highly effective' martial art, which he had decided to name Wan Soo Do. I think he mistook my stunned disbelief for genuine interest and so he began to lecture me on 'effective technique'. I relayed this guy's story to some of the higher dans at my SBD club who vaguely remembered him from a couple of years past as a cocky 7th gup who often received a bit of a pasting for sparring a bit too hard with some of the girls and children. Well, he now has a web page that I recently happened across. So if you are interested you can take a look at him and his students demonstrating their superior techniques. All whilst wearing his new shiny black belt - no doubt a birthday present :-) His site can be found at: http://www.wan-soo-do.demon.co.uk/index.html Honestly, have a read. I promise it won't fail to raise a chuckle or two... Soo bahk! Paul Beckett k.p.beckett@sussex.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:26:54 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Forms -vs- Dancing - Actual Fighting I would have to agree with you here, sir. But it should be noted that we are not only talking about TKD - I would say this is true in all martial arts. The only arts that may have an advantage in a boxer/street/bar scenario might be someone with good ground technique. I think the key thing to remember is: if you have someone that enjoys street/bar fighting and does it A LOT - well...aren't they a martial artist of a sort - training in a particular way...in their particular art? Or thinking you'll fight a serious boxer (not the fad 90's type) that is used to taking hard head and body shot and then countering - when you've never done hard contact conditioning? While I am an ITF'er and enjoy TKD - I do spend time with a couple of other BB's doing hard full contact. I find that my sparring (just like the boxer with 4 or 5 good techniques) in these situations is conservative and I use my 4 or 5 'bread-n-butter' techniques. The only way you'll find me doing a jump-spinning hook kick is if the guy is staggering, nearly unconsciencous, missing 2 arms and 1 leg and can't see - but then, what's the point, eh? Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com > Secondly, forms do not have anything to do with fighting ability. > ######Sorry, I just don't buy this. Classical hyung (whatever > classical means > given their recent creation), kata, poomse, etc do not 'have > everything' to do > with fighting ability. > > > > Forms are the > "Dance" of TKD. Thats it nothing more. A boxer with 5 diffrent techniques > would waste a martial artist with point sparring experience. Fighting full > contact, full speed,makes someone a better fighter. While i love > tkd if any of > those show boatin' kicks were used on an experienced street fighter there > would be a rude awakening on the part of the tkd student. ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:27:33 PST Subject: the_dojang: The Gentleman Factor ...Do you worry so much about injuring a male sparring partner? Your desire to be a gentleman and not beat on the ladies is commendable, but IMHO it is misplaced in the dojang..... Joan Bostic +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Well Keith, Joan brought up two really excellent points. But first it's always difficult to change one's mindset and get into a new way of thinking. Martial arts is full of these challenges. You are experiencing one of the more difficult ones for you personally but there will be many more to come. Think of sparring with a woman as learning how to dance only in the language of a martial artist. Good sparring is actually quite beautiful to watch and takes a tremendous amount of skill and control. With some partners you will be clumsy and trip over your own two feet, wind up with a few bruises; with other partners you will feel like you were in a different zone and one where you would like to return. However you want to be more of a Fred Astaire of the martial arts (haha do you know who he is, I'm dating myself although I'm not that old, as opposed to a hip hop dancer.) The dojang is the safest place (or should be) that you can learn to train with a female partner/opponent. It is controlled and monitored and you are taught step by step and brought up level by level. I believe you had mentioned you like to return the force that is given to you and that's where the training in control and technique come into place. I'm glad that you don't want to hurt a female but as Joan indicated nor should this occur with a lesser qualified male or a lower ranking student, or when you spar with children. My question would be is your dojang a safe place to train with females? Maybe this is adding to the discomfort. Please also know if you don't train with female competitors you are doing them a disservice since they need you to help them train and understand the skills and approaches of a male opponent. They in turn will be teaching you quite a few new approaches and as Joan also said you might be very surprised at some of their skill levels. We really do need to train with one another, not separate from one another. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:40:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: I am not prejudice.....you are all equally worthless in my eyes! > > And, many of TKD people in Poland prefer to do Polka (which is a Czech dance) > > than to waste their time arguing whether each other`s patterns are useful > > or not :)...Piotr Bernat > > Ouch!!! > > Nice shot... :) > > Ray Terry Mr. Bernat, if it is any concellation to you.....I have it on my calender to insult the Swiss next week and the Italians the week after that. I am an equal opportunity offender as well as a repeat offender. I repeat...I will offend again. /-) Ray....ya like how I got YOU in trouble too?! /-) JH P.S. Melinda.......I almost said something to Ray about bringing us back a three headed fish from the Jersey river......but I decided to let it go. You must be psychic............................or is it.....psychotic? /-) ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:58:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #145: Switching Belts Are you certain what you saw wasn't Jumpin' Johnny the dan holder picking up a couple easy trophies by competing in the gup groups? Unfortunately, I have seen and heard of similar events, albeit usually spanning a much smaller spread of rank. >oops, Johnny Jumping Bean was a yellow belt in >the a.m. and who is that sitting in the ring ref'ing with a black belt >on later in the afternoon. It happens. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:58:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #145: The Gentleman Factor & Self Preservation Our permissible target area in TSD sparring is the thorax from belt to shoulder. I've noticed from time to time that females of the species have these delicate glandular appendages that cover a significant fraction (varies;>) of this territory. I've been told by some who should know that these appendages exhibit comparible sensitivity to the "family jewels" in men. Some of the the ladies in class don't own chest protectors (TSD sparring typically does _not_ employ hogues), and, anyway, sparring in class frequently doesn't allow time for an equipment change. In other words, I don't think you want me to kick you in the t*t, even with control. I certainly don't want to. Neither do I want to be kicked in the b*lls (looks like I'm gonna be joining JH in the sensitivity training classes - can I blame your influence, John;?), with or without control, but at least that are isn't a legit target. If this is a chauvanistic attitude, so be it. If it means that I get my butt kicked sparring a female classmate, hey, that'll happen sometimes regardless. Then there's the retaliation issue. Back when I was about 4th gup, I sparred a female BB in class, and evidently hit or kicked her in that area. She cracked my cup with a front snap kick. Not the sort of thing one forgets;>) >In response to Keith's concerns about sparring with ladies... Do you >worry so much about injuring a male sparring partner? What makes a >woman in the dojang any different? Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:22:48 PST Subject: the_dojang: Acknowledging Volunteers! I was thinking about this after re-reading the threads on referees and forms. Certainly not just a problem in the world of martial arts but everywhere is the ability to attract and keep good volunteers (including referess) for the schools and the tournaments and yet over the years I haven't seen this situation really improve. I was wondering how people keep the retention rate up of volunteers and if your volunteers are the blackbelts in your class do you expect that this is one of their responsibilities that should be done with little or no acknowledgement. I have always found that sometimes I've forgotten to say a thank you to this person or that and there is no greater way to create sad and bad feelings. Whenever I work with volunteers I try to give a gift of appreciation or I'll run an ad in the newspaper listing all of the volunteers names (this one is probably one of the more successful ones.) Gifts of tshirts and memorabilia are always appreciated as are dinners for volunteers only and thank you cards done immediately after an event. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:24:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #146 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.