From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #152 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 16 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 152 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #151 the_dojang: Re: injury topic the_dojang: More on the Great Tang Soo Do Debate the_dojang: Re: more on culture/Jamaica the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #150 the_dojang: Re: Book About Females the_dojang: RE: Dining with the GM the_dojang: RE: balisong manual the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #136 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #151 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:07:03 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #151 Allison, I have a couple of thoughts when reading your reply... 1) You are right. No one should be 'made' to spar. If you are not taking a MARTIAL art for fighting purposes - just the the aestetic(sp?) beauty of the style...THAT'S YOUR RIGHT. 2) On the other hand, TKD is a MARTIAL ART. It has nothing to do with comments like "big macho men" - I've seen women in classes who were as egotistical and 'macho' as any male counterpart there. So sexist generalities don't apply...or shouldn't. If there is someone in the class that doesn't want to spar - don't make them. But if attaining a sufficient level of fighting ability is a pre-requisite for promoting - and someone doesn't spar - they should NOT be promoted. Like Bruce Lee stated once "Learning a martial art and not sparring is like practicing to swim and never getting in the water." No disrepect meant, but what are you a 4th Gup in? If you don't at least attempt sparring, how do you know you can actually apply what you have learned? Focus pads and heavy bags don't have any arms or legs. They can help you in an aerobic workout, endurance and making sure that you can hit correctly WITHOUT damaging a wrist or knee, but they don't fight back. If you have a male or female that is afraid of sparring...take it easy on that person and make it fun. Sparring CAN be intimidating and painful - don't make it that way for the person...as skill and trust increase, maybe they'll come to enjoy it. I've seen it happen. Peace, Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring > > > My question is how do you get a person that is that afraid of > fighting to > > spar, or you just try and work with that person until they > overcome that > [snip] > Why is it so important for this girl to spar? Most of the people on this > digest know that I am very anti-sparring...for me. What is so wrong with a > martial artist who would rather not spar? Personally, my > instructors know that > I do not like to spar, and they do not ever ask me to spar anymore. Maybe, > secretly they hope they will change my mind but if this is the > case-they have not pressured me at all. > > So, she has a fear of being hurt? Can you blame her? Every one I > know fears being hurt! (except for all the macho men who feel no pain). Is > she afraid of hurting someone? I can relate to that too. She sounds like a > peaceful person. What is so wrong with that? > > Allison > 4th Gup/International Tang Soo Do > MBS Karate, Newburgh, NY ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:08:19 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: injury topic with all the discussion on injuries, just made me think about a nasty ongoing series of bruises i was getting. i'm a short gal at 5'1" (ummmm....i've been looking around my desk here for info on coverting to metric and cant seem to be able to find it....sorry folks....just imagine the heighth of an eight year old child and you'll get the picture...lol). during kicking drills with double paddles, i get terrible bruises on the tops of my feet. at first i thought i was just doing a really crappy job of controlling my technique since this wasnt normally happening. but then i realized that it was because we were doing a different sort of drill and no one had been given instruction on how to hold the paddles. we were doing a regular throwing kick, then skip in throwing kicks through a paddle line. being as short as i am, the paddle is at a whole different angle for me than for anyone taller. i went home with bruised metatarsals that didnt clear up for over three months. and every time i went back to class and the gm was on this particular drill routine, i would come home with more pretty bruises. finally, i decided that i would only kick air, and not the paddles. and unfortunately, in order for people to change the way the pad is held, it took me having to say "look, remember me asking you to hold the pad at a different angle? this is what happens when you dont". so, my point (if i still remember it), is to take care on how you hold the paddles. you might need to raise it up for those with longer legs or better flexibility, or lower them down for us short folks, or people with less flexibility. also, remember that you may need to change the _angle_ of the paddle, not just the height. thanks for listening to the ramble, folks ;) melinda chunjido@aol.com ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:21:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: More on the Great Tang Soo Do Debate Posted ByD.Segarra on March 15, 1999 at 02:52:31: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byJohn Hancock on March 14, 1999 at 11:24:52: Dear Mr. Hancock, Your comment "I am a major pain in the a*s to the federation" was not a "Jibe" nor was it recent. It was on a someone else's message board, which I happened to catch before it was removed. No, I do not see the humor in it, I do see your motives and intentions in it though. As for pre-posisoned, most of your interview quotes simply look more like cloudy communication and translation to me. No bodies perfect, do you honestly believe the Grandmaster would lie then contradict himself on something so ridiculous? Master Hwang told me when he was assisting with the history of the moo duk kwan, that even he had learned alot about Grandmaster when assisting with the book. So don't expect the son to know everything about his father. You and I probably would fail the many questions about our parents that Master Hwang gets bombarded with. There is no conspiracy, Elvis is dead. I admire your attempts at research, but sometimes you imagine conspiracies that are simply not there. I have know Master H.C Hwang for over 16 years and have been training for over 20. Both Grandmaster and Master H.C Hwang have gladly answered my questions, and gave me honest answers. If your approach is anything like the demeanor in your articles then it's no wonder no-one wants to give you answers let alone talk to you. Now we can go around and around here or simply put it behind us and focus on better things. We have a saying in good old New York, concerning spreading rumors: "The truth shall set ye free, but to the ignorant baloney tastes better." Lets get on with better things and hopefully one day you and I can split a baloney sandwich together. D.Segarra - ------------------------------------ Posted ByJohn Hancock on March 15, 1999 at 04:17:17: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byD.Segarra on March 15, 1999 at 02:52:31: Well..let's not crack open a new jar of Miracle Whip just yet. I really wish everbody would give this "conspiracy" accusation a rest. I never said there was a conspiracy...I never thought there was a conspiracy. It has been my contention all along that the Grandmaster didn't tell his son everything...and his son didn't ask. I never thought Hwang Kee intentionally lied about anything...but I do think he has been obscure about certain aspects of his life and training. I believe his reasons for being so had more to do with getting a foothold established and holding on to it. I haven't been convinced Hwang Kee was some spy for the Japanese government....but he has never publicly come out to disprove those that have made the claim. I do think that there has been a concerted effort to get distance from the Japanese influences in the art but I don't think this was always the case. Seems to have been more of a push for this since the mid 1950's...which would be consistent with social trends in Korea at that time. So I don't think anyone has bold faced LIED to me intentionally...but I do believe they have let their ethnic pride get in the way. Buddy you keep making comments about the "tone" of my writing. Are we reading the same words? Are you sure your own insecurity isn't clouding your perception? You know...I still haven't heard from Mr. Hwang Hyun Chul. Doesn't he have any involvement in the Federation's website? Does he ever even see these postings? You are correct in that we can keep going around and around about these issues...because the issue of the miscommunication is between me and Hwang Hyun Chul. I still haven't heard from him on these issues....and frankly...he has never owned up to being insulting toward me. If he truely didn't mean to mislead me...then he must not have known about the origin of the Pyong Ahn forms or how his father actually did come to know them. Or if he did know this...then he does owe me an apology for acting as if I was too stupid to figure this out (and yes I know it was noted in Hwang Kee's text so don't go there because you and I both know that that little blurb in the book still did nothing to explain how Tang Soo Do came to include such forms. You have to try to remember that Hwang Kee's History of Moo Duk Kwan hadn't been published yet). I'm still waiting to hear something...anything ...from the horse's mouth. John Hancock - ------------------------------------------ Posted ByJH on March 15, 1999 at 04:32:38: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byD.Segarra on March 15, 1999 at 02:52:31: You still haven't said who the instructor was you had the lengthy debate with or given a time frame for when you saw my comment or on what message board. JH ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:40:18 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: more on culture/Jamaica << Dawne, if this didn't answer your questions, please ask some more. Jamaica >> Oh you answered me just fine. I knew you would. Funny thing, AFTER I posted to you I realized I probably misunderstood some of your post. We the very next day here came the flu. so even tho' my head wasn't on quite straight you answered me - Thank you. I should mention that I missed an opportunity Sat. night to go to a Korean place downtown thanks to whatever germ has invaded my body. You mentioned that you have learned Korean. How in the world did you manage that? My friend would like to know Korean, and I mean fluently. I believe that you should JUMP IN. Get familiar with ABCs, a few personal pronouns a few verbs and a dictionary. do you agree? My friend *thinks* she is bad with language, maybe after all these years she is. I think with verbal and auditory exposure we can do it. I think the buddy system is best too. I'd really like to know how you did it. Private email is fine if you'd like, Dawne No1IDIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:30:38 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #150 In a message dated 3/14/99 08:49:59 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Once in awhile you will see this scenario on TV, however I think it > could become more of a reality everyday. We all have discussed how each > person in our class and each black belt in the class is there to achieve > to their own potential. However, the myth which is more than supported > today in the movies and TV is that the martial artist is still someone > to be reckoned with (and for sure this is true for some of us). > > But what would you do if a gang came to your school to visit > unexpectedly and perhaps challenged your class? Now we sometimes think > this can only happen in the rougher neighborhoods but let's face it even > drug gangs have moved into upper middle class neighborhoods and > frequently get bored and look for a challenge. Just wondering if we're > prepared. > > Jamaica Give them the keys and ask them to lock up when they leave? :-) - ---Kim ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:04:19 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Book About Females Jamaica shared: >Just Like a Woman presents the cutting-edge findings in anthropology, >physiology, psychology, neuroscience, endocrinology, and medicine that >are redefining what a woman is. ^^^^^^^^^^ You mean we now have evidence to prove that we didn't understand women before? :-) Is there is a male version of the book? I wonder what I have been re-defined as :-) Stan Lim 3rd Kup, TKD San Jose, CA ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:02:14 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Dining with the GM > a). Wait for the host to eat first as you always should, > NEVER drink with your left hand! :) ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:53:02 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: balisong manual > Jeff Imada wrote two books called the _Balisong_Manual_ and the > _Advanced_Balisong_Manual. I know that they're both available from Amazon. > I've only got the first book but I've seen the second. They've got lots of > detailed pictures and seemingly countless ways to open a balisong. I might > add that I wouldn't try some of them as they involve throwing the balisong > into the air and catching it. :) > I loved learning all those, I thoroughly recommend that book for anyone interested in balisong. It gave me a great base from which to start developing my own style and variations. Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: "Longhorn, Andrew" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:04:15 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #136 > >The success of a board break is equal to the skill and knowledge of the > >person holding the board. > > In my opinion the success of a break is directly proportional to the skill > and knowledge of the person doing the break. Like I said, all the holder > needs to do is hold the board how they are told, and not let it 'give' > when > it is struck. > Best two points for successful board breaking IMHE (in my humble experience?): 1) hit faster and harder than necessary, if possible hit the boards as if they are suspended, that way, even if they let go, the boards will break anyway. 2) don't give a warning, hit fast and hard without telegraphing, not even a shout. (OK, so difficult in multiples or flying techniques etc). But these rules change for a demo, never do anything remotely difficult in a demo, it's too embarrasing if the holders flinch when you really DO need them to be good! :) Andrew Longhorn ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:28:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #151 > Tang Soo! Ken- > Why is it so important for this girl to spar? Most of the people on this > digest know that I am very anti-sparring...for me. What is so wrong with a > martial artist who would rather not spar? Personally, my > instructors know that > I do not like to spar, and they do not ever ask me to spar anymore. Maybe, > secretly they hope they will change my mind but if this is the > case-they have > not pressured me at all. > > So, she has a fear of being hurt? Can you blame her? Every one I > know fears > being hurt! (except for all the macho men who feel no pain). Is > she afraid of > hurting someone? I can relate to that too. She sounds like a > peaceful person. > What is so wrong with that? > > Allison > 4th Gup/International Tang Soo Do > MBS Karate, Newburgh, NY Allison When I posted the question to the list my intention was not to force this student into doing something that she did not want to do. My dilemma is that she has not even given sparing a chance, and Im looking for a suggestion as to how to get her to at least try before she decides that she doesnt like it. She just received her yellow belt and at our school we do not allow students to spar until they are yellow belts. My question I guess stated another way is how do you get students to at least give it a chance. I am of the opinion that sparing is important in martial art. Not because you learn how to beat up a person, but you learn other concepts that you would not learn without some contact. Things such as avoidance, distance, and timing. If you ask me weather a martial artist can be an exceptional martial artist without sparing I would say that they most definitely could but that the student would need to devote more time to other areas such as forms than they would to just sparing in order to make up for what they lost. I guess part of the reason that I feel that sparing is important to martial arts training is they way that I learned. When I started after class every night we would have a controlled free for all with 4 or 5 of us. I learned more about techniques and being aware of what was going on around me in those first 3 months of training than I have in the last 9 years of training. Im not forcing the student to spar against her will, Im asking her to give sparing a chance. I feel that she has the abilities to be very good. If she decides that she does not like sparing after giving it a chance, so be it, but give it a chance. Ken Legendre 2nd Dan TKD kwlegen@ilstu.edu P.S. Allison, please do not take this as an attack against you or the way you feel about sparing. I respect you choice to not spar, but also from your post it seems that you have given sparing a chance. ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:54:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #152 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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