From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #153 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 17 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 153 In this issue: the_dojang: Book about females the_dojang: Fear and Sparring the_dojang: Demo team ideas. the_dojang: No Brainer Followup the_dojang: presumption of rank the_dojang: Re: Sparring (Ken Legendre) the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #152 the_dojang: The Great Tang Soo Do Debate continues the_dojang: Like sands through the hour glass.... [none] the_dojang: Re: The Gentleman Factor the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:17:51 PST Subject: the_dojang: Book about females You mean we now have evidence to prove that we didn't understand women before? :-) Is there is a male version of the book? I wonder what I have been re-defined as :-) Stan Lim 3rd Kup, TKD ___________________________________ hahahahehoho... Think about how I feel!!!!!!!!!!! It took me all these many years and horrific experiences to finally figure out and feel comfortable with who the heck I am and now they change the game plans. I don't think so.. I'll check through my bookmarks and see if I can find you the male version of the book. I actually do believe there is one out there. Uh oh! Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:50:31 PST Subject: the_dojang: Fear and Sparring When I posted the question to the list my intention was not to force this student into doing something that she did not want to do. My dilemma is that she has not even given sparing a chance, and Im looking for a suggestion as to how to get her to at least try before she decides that she doesnt like it. She just received her yellow belt and at our school we do not allow students to spar until they are yellow belts. My question I guess stated another way is how do you get students to at least give it a chance. Ken Legrende ____________________________________________________ The first thing I would keep in the back of your mind and maybe ask personally is whether this person was ever hit or beaten by someone close to them. This person could be a product of physical/mental abuse and could be having flashbacks without you knowing it. I have used the following techniques on my son and his friends when they were in high school. And at that time my son was one of the smallest and youngest kids in the class. I also used some of these techniques on students that qualified for nationals yet I knew when they got to nationals would be devastated by some of their opponents (in otherwords they would have been wiped to the floor). With one of the younger kids and with his dad's permission I worked with him alone without dad watching. His dad was a great person and a great supporter but it's like when you take a kid to the doctor's office for a shot. If mom's there he will cry, when mom leaves they are quite the brave troopers. This applies to older students as well. I would first teach them away from their peers to get their confidence level up. I realized most of these people have never really been hit or taken a blow and even if they had someone was there to protect them. I would introduce these people to sparring in a personal one-on-one session. I lightly start tapping their upper arm (under the shoulder), joking around and then increasing the intensity of the hit. Seems to be an area where it is less scary and offensive for the majority of people. During this time I am also talking to them telling them what I'm doing and why. I would then have them hit me back. It appears that people that cannot take blows don't always deliver them and why we get the case of females with the Tweety bird punches (tap, tap, tap) like a little bird. I made sure they had adequate protective gear. Intermittently I would break a board or have them break a board. This was a good ice breaker and a good demo of power and when you're alone a bit more impressive.So my question is this Ken can this woman break a board yet? I also did intermittent leg sweeps to lighten up the situation and catch them off guard, always taking care that they would fall lightly. Then I would increase the intensity. I remember when I was coaching in this one place and I didn't have any holders or paddles or boards but I did have a wood panelled wall. I tore into into with my loudest kihap and kick and told the students that's where they needed to go. I also demo'd on them some of the kicks that could happen by someone taller and shorter (not at full force). Anticipation of the unknown is a great hindrance. If you can show them some of the many kicks then they won't be surprised. I kept repeating these scenarios increasing the intensity and incorporating trust. Also did just a few hapkido moves. Always trying just to make things comfortable, fun, and awe them just a bit but then demanded they do the same. And then brought them back to sparring. With others I paired them up with someone of their own speed or a blackbelt that was cautious and talented. I would also hold a demo tournament situation and have others lined up around the mat. Call other novices up on the mat and let this person watch. Using a center ref and all. Asking for critique by the students. About the 3rd set in I would ask this person to spar either with myself or with another easy person. I would call the opponent up first and then ask this person next if they would like to spar since they would already know it was a good safe opponent. Better the first time out if you used yourself as the opponent and said "how'd you like to give it a try." Because I don't believe in the continuation of private lessons in this case once the student is on their way or coddling a student. Just getting them introduced to something new in their life. Hope I was a little clear. This is so hard to explain on a forum. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Alexander, Stephen" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Demo team ideas. I know, I know, this thread seems to come up every few months, but, well, here we go again. Last night I was asked by our master to be the coach of the seniors demo team. That's everyone above 27. There are a few black belts in this group, but most are colour belts. There is a demo team competition coming up on may 29 our master wishes this team to compete in. Does anyone want to throw some ideas at me of things I can do during the demo? How do you choreograph it? What's the best type of music, or should there be any music? What should I be having the lower belts doing? How long should it be? (there is a 20 minute limit, is this to long for a demo?) I am not allowed to participate in the demo but can give queues and the like from the side lines. Any and all thought's appreciated. Steve Alexander To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill. Sun Tzu / Gichin Funakoshi ....... Take your pick ! ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:09:42 PST Subject: the_dojang: No Brainer Followup I would like to clarify and add a few more comments regarding my post on gangs (unwanted visitors to the dojang). I know a couple of people responded but I deleted the files too quickly so I will post from recollection. One person said this was a "no brainer" and that you should ask them to leave and if not call the cops and that the liability would be great. I agree that this would be good textbook thinking but in some of my experiences wouldn't work. IMHO but I think you know friendlier gang members than I do. Most of them don't wait around to be asked to leave and if asked don't hear you. They are on a mission. Unless the instructor is carrying a cell phone on themselves with speed dial to the police department then I would say the liklihood of somebody reaching a phone would probably not be realistic and maybe even risky, unless there is somebody sitting in the office that is watching this event, if there is an office. Once these individuals are in your door your school is already at risk. I can also see other situations occurring. Depending on your blackbelts - - both fear and feisty-ness can bring out the worse or the best in people. Sometimes youthful blackbelts are very willing to accept the challenge of others. Perhaps they even know these others and that is why your school was chosen. So it could be out of the instructors control at that point as to how quickly and intensely a confrontation takes place (if at all). I also think, depending on how your school is arranged that some of the mixed classes are at risk. Lots of schools (moms and dads) bring their backpacks and wallets and workout bags and throw them on the floor with all their belongings nicely inside. Easy makings/easy marks. And sometimes depending in what part of a city or town you are located or if you are in a rural secluded area, the cops will not be able to get to your school quickly even if someone did call them. Thanks for listening but for me the no brainers are the things in life that really can cause us problems because they look simpler than they really are. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Ld W. Baldwin,MD-S" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:19:14 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: presumption of rank Re: >> This would appear to be a mightily presumptuous and arrogant statement unless the maker was an even higher ranking master. Then it would only be arrogant. SESilz<< Once KMA practitioners get to master level, do higher levels *really* exist? Taekwondo times is full of announcements that master "x" has formed the xyz federation of tkd\hkd karate and is recognized by the ABC federation,the STU and DEF association. "X" , of course, is now a 9th degree Grandmaster. If JH founded a new art next week called "Hando" and named his house/dojang the Handokai, would his statements have *more* credibility or less? (HMmmm..maybe Hancockdo taught at the Hancockikai...) ------------------------------ From: "CALLAHAN" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:53:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring (Ken Legendre) My personal opinion is every student in a Dojang, that is training in some style of martial art, should be expected to spar, especially if they have some kind of fear. Now that I've gotten some people upset with me, let me explain. First of all, I understand there are some people that do not study the martial arts in order to learn self-defense. These people have different motives for training, and that is fantastic -- at least they have an interest in something and they are pursuing that interest. Now, as for my reasons behind the above statement. The basic premise with the martial arts is defending yourself, should a physical confrontation occur. (I know that is not the only philosophy behind martial arts training, but it is one) So, why not try your hand at sparring, once in a while, to test your reflexes in a controlled environment -- this way you can get a feel for your abilities (i.e. what works for you and what doesn't) before you find yourself on the street and have no idea what the best technique is for you to use against somebody that is going to try to hit you back. The biggest reason I feel everyone should spar is... to challenge yourself. Do things that you are afraid of doing -- do things that you don't feel like doing -- do things you don't like to do -- etc. Face these challenges, they will help build character, discipline and self-identity. These are excellent traits to posses, and if you already posses them -- reinforce them and make them stronger. Isn't this one of the main reasons parents have their children take martial arts training? Aren't these good reasons for everyone to take martial arts training? YES!!! So... spar, it will help build a sense of self, even if, in your mind, it is a negative thing. Mr. Ken Legendre In order to encourage this student of yours to engage in some sparring activity, try having her spar with a higher rank student (or yourself for that matter) that you and her both trust. Have this higher rank spar lightly with her, and continue encouraging her and helping her with different techniques, combinations and scenarios until she feels comfortable enough to try sparring other students. Don't rush her (you don't sound like someone that would), allow her to progress at her own pace with some positive encouragement from you and other students. Maybe this will help her overcome whatever concerns she may have about sparring. Chris Callahan "Violence when there is an alternative, is immoral; Violence when there is no alternative, is survival" ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:59:18 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #152 Tang Soo! snip>Like Bruce Lee stated once "Learning a martial art and not sparring is like practicing to swim and never getting in the water." This is a great quote, but I myself would put it another way. I would say that sparring is like practicing to shoot a gun - I would never practice on my friends, I would aim at a target, and hope that I never have to use the gun in real life. When I worked on Wall Street in the early 1980's, I was sexually accosted in the subway after leaving work. My reaction then was to freeze. I did not fight or scream, I just froze. I did not know any MA then. Now, I can throw a great punch, I can block a punch, but most important is that I would react and fight back. I do not believe that sparring techniques would do me the least bit of good against a mugging or these sorts of street violence. I would like to learn more self-defense though, because that is what I think is practical in my life. I am not going to kid myself into believing that I can ever spar my way out of a mugging or rape. Is there a history as to the purpose of sparring as a form of self-defense against someone who is not also sparring? snip>No disrepect meant, but what are you a 4th Gup in? If you don't at least >attempt sparring, how do you know you can actually apply what you have >learned? I am 4th gup in Tang Soo Do, and I don't believe that you should even attempt to diminish my progress based on my perception of why I chose to learn MA. I love forms and self defense techniques. I do not like the violence of sparring, and that is my choice and opinion, but I am still just as much a 4th gup as any other. I understand though, that Ken's dilemma is that his student has not given it a good try yet, and I agree that she cannot make a sound decision right now. My point was to explain that sometimes it is a deep heartfelt emotion that keeps someone from sparring and perhaps there is something more to it. Maybe time will give her the confidence to try it again. snip> and someone doesn't spar - they should NOT be promoted. What does everyone else think of that comment? Anyone agree with that? Tang Soo! Allison ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:25:00 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: The Great Tang Soo Do Debate continues Posted ByD.Segarra on March 16, 1999 at 00:16:24: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byJohn Hancock on March 15, 1999 at 04:17:17: Actually I'm a mustard man myself, but I'll keep a can of miracle whip around for ya, As for your questions I don't think you will get an answer that will satisfy you. Basically my read on it is (and this is my speculation ONLY not fact) either a) He learned them from the books. b) they were assimilated into the style due to people joining with previous martial arts training. c) He learned them from someone else possibly a martial arts friend, the Moo Duk Kwan was very friendly with some of the other Kwans until the merger with General Choi Hong Hi. This does not automatically make him a student, nor does it make anyone superior. And I can understand why that kind of information might be reluctantly released. Imagine someone sharing a form with you and maybe you share something with them, then when your articles get published they falsely claim to be your teacher. What we do know is the reasons the forms were added were that the Hwa Soo Do curriculum was too, difficult and unfamiliar. So it was a smart move on his behalf to add something that was very popular at the time, build a student base and advance them toward the curriculum he originally intended. As for Master Hwangs involvement on the web to be honest he does not have much if any experience with it. I have toured him around on it once or twice, but other than that he is a little too busy to get deeply involved with the web at this time. Grandmaster is happy to see a new medium for people to learn and connect. But it may take a while for them to get up to speed. They are both more busy than you and I can imagine. I can personally attest to that. I personally appeal to you to please stop flinging those rumors around (Japanese spy) If you ever hope to get answers then you have to realize stuff like that will only cause people to either get angry or not take you seriously. I would like to see you get some resolution and get onto more positive projects. But I wonder if you get the answers you seek where will you go from there? and is it really nessacery or how will this information really help us? Like I said earlier, I can only think of three ways that these forms came to our art. So to me I already know the answers. It's either "a"-"b" or "c". I hope we can continue to communicate civilly, and I apologize for any jabs. Let's continue to keep a good sense of humor about it. I respect the importance of these questions to you, and if I find out I will let you know. I think this forum can be a good way (if we keep it respectful) for people to see where you are coming from, think about it if it wasn't for this web page people who didn't know you might not hear your voice so loudly. So it can be a positive or a negative thing depending on how we handle it. Thank you for quick responses and maybe we can work together on some positive projects soon and show everyone we can cut through the baloney and work together. D.Segarra - ------------------------------------- Posted ByJohn Hancock on March 16, 1999 at 02:30:42: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byD.Segarra on March 16, 1999 at 00:16:24: Well...the answer to the question is "A". Hwang Kee did learn the forms from books. He said so himself. I do imagine he did take some tips from men like Lee Won Kuk and others concerning their actual execution though. But it is just as likely he saw people practicing these forms as Mr. Hwang was very prone to talking to anyone about martial arts who would take the time to talk about it. This is apparent from his own biography. Now...as to this "spreading rumours" stuff you keep attributing to me. Look...I didn't start this stuff. It was already out there and it is being discussed. Now the USSBDMDK Federation can stick its head in the sand about these issues...but they won't go away. Like I've been trying to get across...I am looking into these rumours...and I tend to KILL them unless I find reason to investigate them further. Once again...please read my article...you will notice I talk about a rumour regarding Hwang Kee and Funakoshi. Look...I didn't make that up....that actually got told to me by a 3rd Dan at a Regional Tournament out west. I told him then that it couldn't be true...and I think I made that point in my article. Folks...my article was about MY experience just trying to get the FACTS. Just the FACTS mam. The whole point of my telling about my conversation with Hwang Hyun Chul was to let people who are expatriate of the Moo Duk Kwan know that it is OK to talk about the problems that have occurred in the Management of the Federation. I can talk about it...because I am NOT a member and you can't retailiate against me for it. Many current USSBDMDK Fed members are afraid to open their mouths about many issues because the fear not getting fair treatment in competitions, testing, and dissemination of information about the art and system. OK...it is a can of worms...but I have to tell you...the can was already rusted through and the worms were getting out anyway...so we might as well open up the can. Yes many of these issues are relevant to the many Dans out there...even if you try to trivialize them. To many of them...the fact that the Federation has been soooo silent and then when it does speak is only to strongly argue against having any dialogue because it might "mislead" younger initiates just adds gasoline to a smoldering fire already. If some of the direct questions were ever given direct answers...the it would diminish the suspicions raised by the silence and redirection. I'm sorry..but if Mr. Hwang thinks not answering these questions will make them go away in time...he is playing with fire and stands only to lose even more Kodanja as time progresses. I predicted many events surrounding the Moo Duk Kwan and its policies back in a thesis I completed on the organization back in 1988. Much of what I said has come to pass because the advice I offered was ignored. How many more Kodanja have to leave before it dawns on the Federation to restructure itself and adopt different policies. Here is another prediction that I made almost 12 years ago...when Kwangjangnim Hwang Kee passes away...you WILL see an organization feeding frenzy....and you WILL see Kodanja leaving in droves. I would hope Mr. Hwang H.C. will take time to contemplate the issues and the questions and his policies. It isn't any of us that is going to have to go to the Kwangjangnim's gravesite at Chusok and prostrate ourselves before him for having managed his organization into division. There has often been talk of Ryu Pa among MDK heads and Hwang H.C. himself has written something on it (which...I might ad... made him no friends). But the cold truth is Hwang H.C. himself is like the little boy stading at the dam with his finger in a hole. A flood is imminent...and trying to tell the water not to spill over the banks because it is not its "natural course" is not going to make it stop...and he's about to get overrun by the deluge that is currently under his own thumb. Standardization...while it sounds good on paper...never really can work...and is another example of how the Federation policies have been their own "unnatural" impedement to Ryu Pa. Especially in a country the size of ours....you ARE going to have style variations and even curriculum variations from school to school across this country. Better to deal with it...than try to stop it and ignore it happens. It is actually a good thing for the art...as it guarantees it does suffer from a form of "inbreeding" but has a constant flow inward of fresh ideas and practices. This adaptation and adoption of various components from various disciplines of martial arts is the very thing that has contributied to the wide spread success and popularity of Tang Soo Do. It is something the Federation should have embraced. You can have overview guidelines without having the standardization. You also have to look at the sheer size of this country. That in and off itself will cause regional variations. Another form of natural Ryu Pa. Time is another factor that will cause Ryu Pa. Each new generation has their OWN ways, approaches and methods. The evolution of technology also causes its own natural Ryu Pa. The advent of Video and now the Internet allows for massive dissemenation of information across great distances. If the example of a stream is going to be used where in the various Yudanja are the branches off the stream of the MDK...then you are looking at the flow all wrong. Yes...the dans do get their essence from the MDK...but the MDK is like a delta opening onto a sea. THe sea is the art...the MDK is the Delta. The branches flow back to the sea through the Delta. The source of their essence is the sea...as rain from moisture from the sea is the source for the tributaries of the rivers and the delta. The flow should be from the Yudanja to the MDK to the art which is the source of the essence of the work of the Yudanja. Now up till now...the MDK has seen the flow going the other way in terms of information...and towards itself in terms of money only. The anology works fine for money...but the MDK also needs to listen to its Yudanja and change itself according to the flow from them. A Delta is never exactly the same year after year...even if it has an overt shape that gives impression and recognition it is the same Delta. And that is the way it is. WHy? 3:16 Cause "Stone Cold" John Hancock said so! (that is just too amusing to me...I can't help myself). - --------------------------------------- Posted ByD.Segarra on March 16, 1999 at 03:08:00: In Reply to: Re: Speaking for Myself posted byJohn Hancock on March 16, 1999 at 02:30:42: Sit down for this one, I think you bring up some vaild points. (Where are those sweet pickles?) I want to clear up a few things. First, this was the "official site for the federation" I was asked to take charge of it in an adminstrative capacity. Until it was viable to get the federation its own web site, which it now has (and I adminstrate that also). Which now free's me up to be more vocal with out fear of representing the orginization. In other words I don't speak for the federation, I speak only for myself. This site is totaly my site, which is a good thing because issues come out on this site that would never see the light of day on an official site, such as the dues increase. Second, I was the first and only Ko Dan Ja to publicly dissagree with the dues increase and make itpublic. Of course I caught a ton of heat for it, none from Master Hwang, all of the heat from the "administrative side." I do agree with quite a few of your points, and some times people only learn through their mistakes. The federation has lofty goals, but lofty goals alone don't make you suceed, action, proper planing and learning from your mistakes get you there. My Grandmother told me an old indian proverb. Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. So we do what we can, Hope for the best, plan for the worst. D.Segarra ___________ And that's the NEWS at 11! ------------------------------ From: John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:37:26 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Like sands through the hour glass.... ON a different note....found these TSD posting and made one of my own. My TSD compatriots may find this interesting: Greetings to all Soo Bahk Do practitioners! I am trying to update my web page with accurate historical information relating to the achievements and history of Tang Soo Do. Perhaps someone can assist me with information on several key historical questions. 1. Why did Grandmaster Hwang Kee flee to China while Japanese troops invaded Korea? 2. Is there an "adopted" son and if so, what is his status within the Soo Bahk Do Organization? 3. What branch of the Korean military did H.C. Hwang serve under? Please include service dates and speciality. Thank you for your kind assistance. Dan Nolan - - Monday, March 15, 1999 at 17:10:52 (EST) Grandmaster fled to China while Japanese troops invaded Korea? Let's see...Japan invades 1910, Grandmaster is born in 1914. I don't get it. B Hamiliton USA - Tuesday, March 16, 1999 at 00:12:59 (EST) Dear Mr. nolan, you have written to me before asking questions about various masters, as I stated in my personal corespondences with you,I personaly think this is none of your bussiness. It seems instead of focusing on relative history that is important to a students basic understanding of our art, you want to accumulate dirt or ammunition, to justify your not being in another orginization. I hope people will follow my example and refuse your request for personal information. It's none of your bussiness if someone is "adopted" or what type of "service" they were involoved in. Maybe you wouldn't be so interested if someone else started taking an interest in your personal background. You probably were glued to the t.v when Ken star and monica lewinsky were having it out. As my Grandma used to say: "Mind your own beeswax." D.Segarra - - Tuesday, March 16, 1999 at 00:46:00 (EST) Well....Hwang Kee didn't 'Flee' anywhere. He did travel to Manchuria in 1936 incidental to his job with the Railroad. But he wasn't on the run. A lot of rumours have floated around for years that Mr. Hwang "escaped" the Japanese occupation and went to China so he could study and practice martial arts without fear of recriminations from the Japanese who were rulers of Korea during that time. This is hogwash. The man attended military school prior to taking this job (actually...it was just high school...but at that time...most schools of secondary education were Military Schools at least in the sense of how the Japanese had structured the organization of the schools and their curriculums) and following his graduation he took a position in the Survey Dept. of the Ministry of Transportations Railway division. Basiclly from what I've been able to gather...he rode the train to Manchuria and worked with a crew doing survey work for the Railroad. Now...there have been some claims that Hwang Kee was recruited to spy for the Japanese while he was in Manchuria. I don't know. I've never seen any actual proof of that. I guess Hwang Kee himself could shed some light on this if he just would. It is a fact that he did claim Gogen Yamaguchi as a personal friend...and Mr. Yamaguchi was an Intelligence Officer with the Japanese Imperial Forces in Manchuria at this same time. Could just be coincidence...but once again...only Mr. Hwang could shed light on this. Mr. Yamaguchi never did (while I haven't kept up with Goju-ryu...I'm pretty sure Mr. Yamaguchi passed away during the 1980's). Now...as for Mr. Hwang H.C.'s military service? Don't think he ever did any. Yes...it is a federal law in Korea that all healthy males must complete 29 months mandatory service in the Korean Military...however...I believe Mr. Hwang H.C. left to go to Greece before he was called up for conscription.... and after that he came to the U.S. where he has been ever since. Now it is true that lots of families of financial means have arranged for their sons to leave Korea to avoid this mandatory conscription. I've met lots of 'em over the years. I can see how this could be embarrassing to the MDK to have the heir apparent be a "draft dodger"...but that just seems to be the way it is. It might say something about Mr. Hwang H.C. as a person..but it wouldn't make a lick of difference to his martial art ability. I remember my Korean Sword Master, Yang Chong Sik Sabomnim talking to me about the draft in Korea. When I trained under him in 1984-1985 in Seoul, he was in his late 40's and was having to do the occasional weekend drill for reserve duty. I asked him why..and he explained that when he was a boy it was during the Korean War (1950-1954)and the military would go through the towns and just grab boys of the appropriate age right off the street and put them in uniforms and stick at the front. Mr. Yang's family hid him and lied about his age to avoid this curb side conscription. But...it came back to haunt him in his forties. Seems the Ministry of Defense went through and started checking for service records on males of various ages through the use of voter registration information. Well...he got caught...and because of that...at his mid 40's...he was drafted into a Reserve unit and compelled to "do his duty". I asked him how he felt about it and his response was..."It doesn't matter how he feels about it. It is his responsibility and he has to own up to it." Now...as for the adopted family question...hell...I'm curious about that one too. But I'm just curious to know the family tree of the Hwang's anyway just for general knowledge purposes. Granted...it would be amusing to find out they have a "crazy aunt they have to keep locked up in the basement" as Ross Perot would say....but I'm just curious as to how big the family is and who is in it. I have heard that there was some adopted children in the family...but I don't know this...and once again...I'm not sure it would be of any impact upon the art or the organization. I am a little curious what ever happened to Hwang Jin Mon? Isn't this Hwang H.C.'s little brother? I have heard that Hwang Kee had some girls too. I have also wondered if he had any Uncles or cousins surviving. I was under the impression Hwang Kee was an only child...but I thought his father had siblings. Maybe some of the family is still in North Korea trapped behind the DMZ? Once again...I guess Mr. Hwang could shed light on this. I don't know about anyone else....but I would be interested to know this stuff just for curiosity sake. I think it is important to the Tang Soo Do family at large to have this information. It would may the Hwangs more personable because I just bet anything it would make them seem more like everybody else (which they really are ya know). WHy? Cause "Stone Cold" John Hancock said so! (Hehehe...yeah..I'm milking it now). John Hancock <4karate@bellsouth.net> - - Tuesday, March 16, 1999 at 04:51:03 (EST) ------------------------------ From: "G. Booth" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:13:58 +1100 Subject: [none] Independance Day Downunda (Australia) Hapkido Seminars 2nd Annual Event, 1999 Master Geoff J, Booth & Master JR West are proud to announce the up and coming IDDU seminars. These are planned to coincide with the July 4th celebrations, so that you can celebrate Independance Day Downunda!! In 1998 Master JR West and his wife Master Instructor Renee West journeyed to Australia for the first of these events and enjoyed not only the great time that Australia has to offer but also the chance to play some Hapkido with the locals. Take this chance to check out the Olympic City, let us be the tour guides and enjoy the Seminars and our hospitality at the same time. All styles and ranks are welcome. For more information contact Master Booth - hapkido@netro.com.au or Master JR West - hapkido@netdoor.com or take a look the official IDDU website http://hapkido.netro.com.au/iddu Master JR West heads the United States Korean Martial Arts Federation - http://www.hapkido.com Master GJ Booth heads the Australian Hapkido Group - http://hapkido.netro.com.au Australian Hapkido Group http://hapkido.netro.com.au "The art is in the person, all we have to do is bring it out" ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:41:53 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The Gentleman Factor In response to Keith's concerns I would like to note that his concerns are certainly common. When sparring a new member to our school the other night I was struck by the caution he used. I had watch him sparring with other students and he was quite aggressive. However, when we were paired together he was very tentative. He is a seventh gup and so I don't think he's concerned about knowing more material than I. It is especially frustrating to be sparred easily because I'm a woman since the very time when I may need to use my training will most likely be against a man who is substantially larger than me. All of the other men in our school spar very aggressively whether they are sparring a man or a woman. Sure I leave class bruised and sore on occasion but I greatly appreciate the lessons it teaches me. Thanks, Carolyn Spetland 1st gup, TSDMGK ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:22:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #153 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.