From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #156 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 18 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 156 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155 the_dojang: Sparring Requirement? the_dojang: 3:16 the_dojang: RE: Fear of Sparring Re: the_dojang: 3:16 the_dojang: Heal Bouncing ? the_dojang: Dr Kim and the IOC 'almost' fight? Re: the_dojang: RE: Fear of Sparring the_dojang: I'll say so, you are a jerk. the_dojang: Fiance visa the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155/ Do you let your students watch? Re: the_dojang: Fiance visa the_dojang: deleting requirements the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Giddins Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:36:52 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155 >>Greg Giddins wrote: << Tang Soo Do is all about forms, and most have the philiosophy "If you aren't doing your forms you aren't training" and most TKD students would scoff at this idea. >> >Perhaps "most TKD students" could be replaced by "some" or "many." Done. I apologize. "Some" TKD students would (and have) scoffed at this idea. Generalization is a dangerous practice. And boy did I generalize. Yuck. Again, sorry, wasn't a fair statement. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Man is at his best in helping others: at his worst in bettering others. ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:53:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Sparring Requirement? I agree - if your school/organization has requirements that have to be met to be considered for promotion, it should not be up to the student to decide what to do and what not to! At higher ranks the ATA has "midterms" that students must do. These midterms allow the student's some flexibility in choosing what they want to demonstrate for their test (weapons, advanced self-defense, etc.). HOWEVER, the rank test still requires the demonstration of forms, sparring, self-defense and board breaking. One of the ATA mottos is: "A Martial Art that Trains People Physically and Mentally" - it is a personal journey of learning and growing that is an indicator of progress. With this in mind, an instructor can work with a student to do the best they can. You may not be the best sparrer in town, but if you try your best and become better than you once were, this demonstration, along with your form, SD, etc., can be rewarded by a promotion! Your rank testing is a demonstration of YOUR knowledge and ability, not a comparison with others who may also be testing - comparisons are best left for tournaments! In the spirit of TKD... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com I asked for everything so I could enjoy life. Instead, HE gave me life so I could enjoy everything. ------------------------------ From: Scott Apple Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:56:42 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: 3:16 JH, what is 3:16. I've seen it twice now in your posts. Thanks for the info. ------------------------------ From: Ray Wagner Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:26:19 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Fear of Sparring Hi all, I'm pretty new around here and this is my first post. I'm a TKD type guy (among other things) and there seems to be a lot of great information flying around here. Anyway, on the the meat of the matter... Michael Sarles said: (in regards to sparring requirements of winning a tournament for advancement) > Yikes!, that is a pretty tough requirement. What if every one you were > sparring either in the school or in tourneys was really, REALLY good? It > could take many, many years just to get your Dan. Is that necessarily a bad thing? If you're fighting "really, REALLY good" folks in an effort to gain your BB then you're only getting better. Personally, I see no problem with that at all. I'm trying to make myself better. Period. If I'm still a red belt after 7 years, so be it. But I'll be the best red belt you ever saw! I once worked with a fellow who was an officer in the Korean military. He had to have a BB in TKD to receive his commision as an officer. He said that they would test 4 people at a time. The last part was a sparring "tournament" between the 4. Only the winner received his BB and therefor his commision. Personally, I'd rather be good than have any particular rank. Just my humble $.02, Ray "the new guy" Wagner rwagner@primary.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:52:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: 3:16 > JH, what is 3:16. I've seen it twice now in your posts. > Thanks for the info. My guess is, you know John 3:16, as in the Bible? Perhaps the best known Bible passage. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin became popular in the WWF (I don't watch the stuff, but I know people that do :) and he hit it big with an Austin 3:16 saying. Now you see [fill-in-the-blank] 3:16 signs at many wrestling and other 'sports' venues and you can buy Austin 3:16 T-shirts. No, I don't have any WWF clothing... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:22:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Heal Bouncing ? I was in a wtf school for about a year and a half and now im in a itf school.The wtf school had a gm from korea and he taught me that speed and power comes from the hip twisting a little bit.Our forms were done fast and EVERYONE who had on a green belt or higher had a snap in their uniforms when punching or kicking.Now im in ITF and there is not too much snap.Some of the bbs look down when doing forms instread of looking at the target.A really irritating breathing thing is being done.And a up and down with the heals with the blocks and punches are done too. This makes the forms slower and unless the strike or block is being done either up or down it does not seem to add any power or spped.I am set in the way i do forms and if we are supposedly fighting "imaginary" opponents then im gonna fight em with as much speed as i can.Can someone shed some light on this subject as i am very good at forms and take a lot of pride in the way they look when i perform them. ------------------------------ From: "Huxman, Jay" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:29:22 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Dr Kim and the IOC 'almost' fight? Fellow TKD'ers, Having joined the digest about two months ago, here's my first posting... hope it's worthy of some debate (uh, reasonable discussion). I had expected someone else to quickly post about the following (in yesterday's paper), and make corresponding comments about how bizarre it was for the President of the WTF to "strike a TKD pose" against a fellow IOC member (the director general). At first I was amused by the image of such dignified, international leaders argueing, profaning, and acting like Katzenjammer Kids. However, after short reflection, I'm no longer amused. I, personally, expect our TKD leaders and instructors to show more constraint (until literally pushed into a self-defense response). [Remember the Tenets of TKD?: Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverence, Self-Control, and Indominitable Spirit] Admittedly, the story doesn't have explicit details, but nowhere does it state or imply that Dr Kim was 'threatened' (either verbally or physically). Any one else care to comment? v/r Jay Huxman 1st Dan USATF (ITF)/Kukkiwon Colorado Springs jay.m.huxman@cpmx.saic.com - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) - There was shouting. There was cursing. There was the bizarre scene of a leader of world sports striking a martial-arts pose against one of his colleagues. But the three International Olympic Committee officials involved in the confrontation at their headquarters said Wednesday it really was no big deal. Witnesses said executive board member Kim Un-yong was involved in a shouting match Tuesday with Francois Carrard, the IOC's director general, during a break in a meeting. The exchange included loud words and profanity, the witnesses said. At one point, Kim, the South Korean president of the International Taekwondo Federation (sic), took a wide-legged, fists-up combat stance, which sent Carrard fleeing, according to the witness, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. ``I'm in great shape,'' Carrard said when asked about the confrontation. ``There was a minor incident. I'm physically very fit.'' The witnesses said Pound then stepped in and helped calm Kim down. ``It's a brief incident,'' Pound said. ``It's now behind us.'' No punches were thrown and Kim later apologized to both Carrard and Pound. Kim, who remains under investigation by Pound's IOC corruption panel for alleged involvement in the Salt Lake bribery scandal, said little about Tuesday's showdown. ``I have nothing more to elaborate on,'' he said. Executive board member Jacques Rogge, also a member of Pound's task force, said the standoff had nothing to do with the investigation, although he did not say what sparked it. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:09:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Fear of Sparring > I once worked with a fellow who was an officer in the Korean military. > He had to have a BB in TKD to receive his commision as an officer. He > said that they would test 4 people at a time. The last part was a > sparring "tournament" between the 4. Only the winner received his BB > and therefor his commision. I think you have to be a 1st Dan in TKD, or some martial art, to even be Private in the ROK military. A huge number of the males in S.Korea are 1st Dan. But very few make it to 2nd. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:28:41 EST Subject: the_dojang: I'll say so, you are a jerk. In a message dated 99-03-18 12:23:57 EST, you write: << You said you haven't been reading them anyway.....so what is your problem? Is it with me? Why don't you just come out and say so? You can address me directly. You don't have to Run to the group for protections. I won't hurt you.........................much. (WAH! WAH! Ray..Mr. Hancock is pickin' on me again! He's not playing nice in the sand box!) >> You are the main reason I don't pay much heed to these lists anymore. And that is unfortunate because there are some good, intellegent people here to share ideas with. Comments like the one above show just what kind of person you are. I've just ignored you till now, since you really are not worth commenting on, but I guess today some of my youth has come back. Back when I didn't know how to keep my mouth shut or my fists from flying. So, I'll come out and say so. I think you are a jerk, plain and simple. And I have never ran to others for protection. And before you you insinuate that you could hurt me, I'll let you know that you are not big enough or good enough, and you don't have enough friends. I will not waste everyone's time with another post like this, so don't even bother trying to keep it going, you are not worth it. But I sort of have a feeling I just said something many people are feeling. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:30:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: Fiance visa Hello everyone, Yi Saeng just called from Seoul and she has the visa. Now we can get a plane ticket for her to come over. She should be here in April. Thanks for all the well wishes and support from all of you as we went through this lengthy and frustrating process. Especially you Holcombe, Thanks again for the assistance. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:24:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155 All this talk about sparring a s a required part of MA training has got me wondering: What if a potential student wanted to do every aspect of your program except, say, forms; the repetitious dance-like movements gave them a severe headache or something. Would you delete this requirement to accommodate them? S.E.Silz ------------------------------ From: "aparedes" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:43:57 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #155/ Do you let your students watch? I think this is a very good question. I'm too interested in what other dojangs do. I did witness the ritual, test and promotion of my Master/instructor. For the ritual, only from blue belt and up were allowed to attend. For the actual test only black belts were allowed to watch and assist. (specially the 2nd and 3rd degrees.) Some time later we had an official promotion at a country club in L.A. We all wore suits and Tux's. It was quite an experience. My question to you all is: Have you ever witnessed a ritual ceremony for the promotion of 4th to Master 5th Dan? I participated in my Master's ceremony. It consisted of him performing all his forms at 3 different locations. He was told by GM to wear a white belt and be in the back 2 week prior to the test and the night before he was not allowed to speak until the ritual/ceremony was completed. I would really like to get some input on this. Please look at the web page I put together describing this ceremony. Look at THE MAKING OF A MASTER. AT www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/8129 I would like to hear your comments. Alex Paredes Aparedes@gateway.net World Chang Moo Kwan 3rd Dan www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/8129/index.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------- " A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher." Luke 6:40 ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Fiance visa > Yi Saeng just called from Seoul and she has the visa. Now we can get a plane > ticket for her to come over. She should be here in April. > > Thanks for all the well wishes and support from all of you as we went through > this lengthy and frustrating process. Especially you Holcombe, Thanks again > for the assistance. Congrats!! Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:09:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: deleting requirements > All this talk about sparring a s a required part of MA training has got me > wondering: What if a potential student wanted to do every aspect of your > program except, say, forms; the repetitious dance-like movements gave them a > severe headache or something. Would you delete this requirement to > accommodate them? I know a few that do exactly the above. But I would not... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:12:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #156 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.