From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #159 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 20 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 159 In this issue: the_dojang: Forms: WTF -vs- ITF the_dojang: Re: Safe-T equipt the_dojang: Re: Yi Saeng the_dojang: Re: sparring the_dojang: Pan Am Games Team Trial Results the_dojang: Complete Results - 1st day of Panam Team Trials the_dojang: Re: sparring the_dojang: Re: sparring the_dojang: Colorado the_dojang: Virtual/Real Self Defense (fwd) the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Sarles Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:04:12 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Forms: WTF -vs- ITF I have a new one here...well...maybe... I also realize this comment is coming from just one organization... As I've stated before, I'm part of a WTF organization that wanted to incorporate an ITF faction in their school - we are that ITF faction. I've talked to the Grandmaster and one of his organizations 'officers' about forms. This GM was watching our ITF forms and made a comment like "ITF forms are very beautiful, but they have a lot of nuances and take a lot of time to master. WTF forms are not as busy which allows more time for sparring training." or something to that affect. What do other folks think about this? It does seem to me that ITF forms are a little more complicated (no flame intended) than WTF forms. What do you WTF'ers out there think? Peace, Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:21:21 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Safe-T equipt Dakin wrote: <> When this equipt was first introduced, I remember some people saying it would be the end of sport karate because people would not learn to punch/kick properly and would lead to sloppy technique. Oh well.... Take Care, Peter M. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:36:13 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Yi Saeng Congratulations Alain! Peter M. P. S. Don't let up in your studies!!! :) ------------------------------ From: Sandy Krueger Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:26:01 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: sparring Allison wrote: > In my school, we drill with partners back and forth sparring, > > which teaches us control, distance and speed, as well as a host of other > things. > > There is no contact and no gear for these drills. We use heavy bags for > > making contact and improving strength. > > I can see that there is a great divide in philosophy between Taekwondo and > > Tang Soo Do in this respect. There are also TKD school that only practice no contact sparring. > > > But it brings up some interesting > > points. Lets say that at your school the reqirements for testing are > forms, > > sparring and self defense up to your level. I come in and work my little > tail off every > > class and love every minute of it, but I do not want to spar > > because I have a strong belief against violence. Joe Blow comes in a > couple times > > a week and doesn't even break a sweat. All he wants is to be able to tell > his friends > > that he knows karate. But he makes the half-assed effort to > > sparr. Is that a fair indication of who is worthy of obtaining their > promotion? I Well, this seems to be two different issues. One is students not wanting to do part of the curriculum, and one is about students who have poor attitudes. Personally, I think attitude should be part of the requirements. But if it is not and Joe Blow can perform all the items on the test, he will be promoted. I suspect though that in many schools Joe Blow would not be getting much beyond green belt. Your main issue though, is not wanting to spar. If you want to learn all the other aspects of TSD that are taught in your school and you love it, why worry so much about promotion? I don't mean to sound harsh at all. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think it is like taking courses in college in subjects that you don't intend to get a degree in. I could have got a degree in engineering with another 6 months of school but I didn't want to, so I didn't (finished in psychology instead). Doesn't mean I don't like science or use many of the things I learned. Michael wrote: > One last point. I know that you have a strong belief against violence. I do > too. I've been doing MA for some years now and have a strong belief against > violence. I had a ~darling~ wife (I've been divorcing now for the last 2 > years) that loved to use her training on me and I've either taken shots to > various parts of my body (which called for hospital visits) OR left the > scene running until things cooled down. I don't like violence and will > gladly try to run first before having to use it. Michael, you deserve respect for your restraint. Interesting that people who have actually dealt with violence are often the ones less interested in talking about running around kicking others' butts, but we digress... > But to me, sparring is not violence. Sparring amongst friends you > like/love/trust is a good thing. When I spar (contact/non-contact) with my > friends - there is no animosity there - it can even be a sort of bonding. I > trust these people and it's a good time. I've even taken hard shots on > occassion - but I know it was accident - I don't believe my friends mean to > harm me. > Violence to me has to do with hatred, maliciousness, vindictiveness, ego, > etc. I don't like it. I was going to say something similar, but Michael put it better than I could have. This is exactly how I feel about sparring. How can you consider it violence when getting hit with a good shot you should have avoided makes you smile, and you hug each other afterwards? :) Regards, Sandy > > ------------------------------ From: Gregg London Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:57:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Pan Am Games Team Trial Results Good Morning, Day One results from Colorado Springs, for the U.S. Pan Am Games Team Trials are posted at: http://www.glondon.com/results.html Be seeing you, Gregg - -- Gregg London Consulting Internet/Notes Development http://www.glondon.com Corporate/Trade Show Magic 703-242-7548 Tournament Automation Services ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:04:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Complete Results - 1st day of Panam Team Trials Mike Bardis posting item for Peter Bardatsos. Complete Results of 1st Day US Olympic Weight Division Team Trials http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1442/99olympicresults.htm - -- Sincerely, Peter Bardatsos 6-time US Team Member and US Team Captain Bardatsos Taekwondo ** http://www.bardatsostkd.com Michael Bardis I/T Specialist IBM Global Services Distributed Field Services - North ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:11:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: sparring Allison, I also have to agree with you in the fact that violence is bad, but sparring is not violence. It is a test of your courage, you fighting ability, your control, and your over all knowledge of the MA. Inorder for one to be good at a MA they must be able to exhibit techniques with control, and sparring helps a student to develope this. In the Taekwondo school that I am from we have always had to spar for belt rank promotions, unless injury does not permit it. If in a testing someone gets hurt, during sparring, their oppenent is responsible for what happens (if it is their fault), therefore if a student hurts another during sparring their test score is lowered. However in no way can this be considered true violence. Julie Jezek Pangiie@usa.net First Dan Certified WTF ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:11:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: sparring Allison, I also have to agree with you in the fact that violence is bad, but sparring is not violence. It is a test of your courage, you fighting ability, your control, and your over all knowledge of the MA. Inorder for one to be good at a MA they must be able to exhibit techniques with control, and sparring helps a student to develope this. In the Taekwondo school that I am from we have always had to spar for belt rank promotions, unless injury does not permit it. If in a testing someone gets hurt, during sparring, their oppenent is responsible for what happens (if it is their fault), therefore if a student hurts another during sparring their test score is lowered. However in no way can this be considered true violence. Julie Jezek Pangiie@usa.net First Dan Certified WTF ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:49:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Colorado Just back from Colorado where I had the opportunity to meet list member David Steffen and to visit his ITF club at Colorado State University. It was great meeting Dave and his students and to see the sine-wave in action. I hadn't envisioned it correctly. You gotta see it to understand how it works, or at least I did. Anyway, great meeting Dave and his students. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:12:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Virtual/Real Self Defense (fwd) Sent to the wrong address. Ray - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: >From jamaica_power@hotmail.com Sat Mar 20 06:59:53 1999 Message-ID: <19990320145302.16364.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Jamaica Power" To: the_dojang-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Virtual/Real Self Defense Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:53:02 PST Wondering how many of the individuals on this forum that teach awareness and self defense have considered the following. A while back A. Burress did a very detailed post on awareness levels. I know many individuals feel m.a. is about just physical self defense training yet awareness levels mean the ability to assess your own particular environment and critically analyze the people and situations you are involved with. Okay, here is my question. How many instructors have updated their classes to include the world of high tech martial arts and the virtual dojang. And before you laugh, think about it. We all sit here on these forums and think they are a L'abri (safe haven) but in actuality they are not. Unless we personally know each other we really don't know to whom we are talking. We believe all people on these forums are martial artists when indeed the opposite could be true. There are a multitude of scam artists and cult leaders on these forums that constantly critique and review posters by lurking and sometimes by posting hoping certain individuals will "take the bait." And the more personal information we provide, the better. Soon we receive "private" emails. And because some individuals enjoy the private emails they are lured into a sense of false security. We assume they are from fellow martial artists and we start disclosing far too much personal information. So in your self defense training courses has anyone updated your self defense training courses to include the high tech world of scams and virtual rape, rip offs, etc. and other implications from our new worlds of connectiveness. Thanks. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:22:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #159 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.