From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #164 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 23 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 164 In this issue: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #159 the_dojang: Vending Machines in the Dojang the_dojang: Re: Changing of forms the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #160 the_dojang: Not to Worry SES the_dojang: RE: Changing Forms...huh? the_dojang: Stumbled onto TKD the_dojang: Martial Arts Teaching,Changes,and Respect the_dojang: Re: Chris, Jamaica, Ken - v6 #163 (fwd) the_dojang: Redefining The Male the_dojang: Re: Chewing, smoking the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steffen Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:08:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #159 Ray Terry wrote: > Just back from Colorado where I had the opportunity to meet list > member David Steffen and to visit his ITF club at Colorado State > University. It was great meeting Dave and his students and to see > the sine-wave in action. I hadn't envisioned it correctly. You > gotta see it to understand how it works, or at least I did. > > Anyway, great meeting Dave and his students. Ray, it was great having you out. Bring your training gear next time - my students would appreciate getting pounded on by someone else for a change! ;-) ;-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:25 PST Subject: the_dojang: Vending Machines in the Dojang I ask this question because vending machines can be a very lucrative. Many businesses and public schools will either rent or buy vending machines. If you rent you split the money with the company but they keep it filled and do the maintenance and even supply you with a newer classier model as updates are made. Whether it's a pop machine, food, or juice machine. Of course if you are so very fortunate to have a game room with pool or foosball even better. Actually when a local high school principal and a private business owner both revealed to me their take from just one of their machines I can only tell you I was more than impressed... and I don't get impressed easily. Just sending you a thought. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Wagner Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:06:32 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Changing of forms "Kenneth W. Legendre" wrote: > It can be very frustrating at times, but when forms have been > changed there has always been a reason for the change. This reason has > helped me gain a better understanding of what the form is about. I've done the same thing. I've learned Toi Gye (3rd gup form in chon ji series TKD forms) 3 times now. Each was different. Each had a reason why they had changed things, some of which I did not agree with. But then, I'm far from qualified to critique the mechanics of a form. Give me another 25 years... :) > One of the requirements that I was asked to have the > testees do was to either add a move into a form such as in Chon-Ji downblock > kick punch instead of downblock punch, or to have the testees do each > technique 2 time. > > Has anybody else heard of or done this in a testing situation? If so what > did you think about it and why was it done? I've seen it/been on the receiving end of it. Personally, I think it's a great test. Actually more like a pop quiz. At that rank you should be able to apply what you've learned, not just recite it by rote. I had to do exactly what you mentioned...add a front kick to chon ji. I didn't think it was all that tough, but made me think about what I was doing instead of just letting my body go on autopilot because I'd done the form 8,000 times. Another funky test I had to do was performing chon ji backwards. It's really a simple form, but you just get so set on stomping through it that you don't think about it. Going backwards feels very strange. I've also done forms blindfolded in class situations (not testing). This gives you a better idea of what your body is doing. You get a better feel for what *you* are doing as opposed to your surroundings. Ray "the evil anti-Terry" Wagner ------------------------------ From: David Steffen Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:11:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #160 > From: Stan Lim > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:20:05 -0800 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: See it to believe it? > > Mr. Terry wrote: > > >It was great meeting Dave and his students and to see the > >sine-wave in action. I hadn't envisioned it correctly. You gotta > >see it to understand how it works, or at least I did. > > Any chance someone could put some video clips on a web site so the > rest of us can see it, too? The ITF has various training videos, and a very nice CD-ROM, available. Unfortunately they're pricey (like $160) - worth every penny for an ITF student, but probably too much for someone who's just curious. Given that it's all I can do to keep the "Upcoming Events" part of our web page up to date, you may have to wait until I finish my degree before I do anything about putting up video. ;-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:22:27 PST Subject: the_dojang: Not to Worry SES << I am happy that it has not entered your dojang. >> I am too, especially since my dojang is shy a spitoon! SES _________________________________________________ Haha,,,not to worry, SES. Our young athletes now carry their own portable spittoons. They are called "styrofoam cups." Easy to transport in their workout bags, come with covers, inconspicuous, and even recyclable. Great for non-smoking environments because they are not subjecting others to second hand smoke. Funny... yes.. True.. Yes, also! Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:45:43 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Changing Forms...huh? > > From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:03:30 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: Changing of forms [snip] > Now for my question. About a month ago I was picked to lead a > promotion for > temporary black belts. (I was not grading, just calling out > techniques) This > is the most difficult test at our school as at this level you are actually > considered a 1st Dan. One of the requirements that I was asked to have the > testees do was to either add a move into a form such as in > Chon-Ji downblock > kick punch instead of downblock punch, or to have the testees do each > technique 2 time. [snip] Ken, You lost me with your question. I kind of get the gist about you calling out a tech., but do you do this as they are doing the form? Or tell them the change in the form and then have them perform with the tech. that you've changed? Or am I way off point? Or should I go get some more sleep? .... ... ... Oh yeah, how would this be the most difficult thing in the test and what is its purpose? Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com ------------------------------ From: Scott Apple Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:47:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Stumbled onto TKD Jamaica wrote: I also stumbled upon Tae Kwon Do. Nine months ago my wife, and daughter and I moved to a new city. I had never seriously considered TKD, but "accidentally" heard of a group that had a beginners class starting. I went. Twice I nearly quit because I was doing this alone (I didn't know a soul there) and because I wasn't really sure about this "Tae Kwon Do stuff." I stayed with it. I think one of the aspects that attracted me most was the formality of the classes and the discipline required of me mentally as well as physically. I've always enjoyed sports and love the work-outs. Growing up however, I was always more involved with music while in school. Tae Kwon Do has given me the opportunity to face physical challenges. Well, I absolutely love TKD. I have had to overcome obstacles to be part of my dojang, but I'm still in there. It nearly feels like a calling in my life now. I see my white belt and other colored belts in my closet every day (I have them hanging there with my ties and belts - I suppose I'll put them away some time) and I feel proud to have earned them and to have worn them. It is interesting, Jamaica, I have a passion for playing the piano, as well. I knew when I was very young that I would play. It was and is a fire in my heart and veins. TKD is still fairly new to me, but it's glowing hotter every day. I'm glad I found it. Scott ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:56:31 PST Subject: the_dojang: Martial Arts Teaching,Changes,and Respect All comments in this post are broad generalizations meant for discussion. I hope I don't offend anyone. I read a very interesting article yesterday but to me, also a very disturbing one. It stated that more psychologists, sociologists, and school counselors are more than ever making formal referrals to their dignosed clients to take martial arts to help "special needs individuals." Of course that category is very broad but it would encompass not only the ADD child and adult, but a wide variety of special needs children. While that is no surprise to me it is disturbing that while martial arts instructors struggle to get and maintain credibility for their teachings that behind the scenes we are being used as professional providers and educators to help challenged children and adults. Yet on the surface we are not given that acknowledgment in a professional manner. Thank you's are nice but so is some type of monetary compensation. Schools in particular are now hiring counselors, social workers and psychologists at an alarming rate because many states provide large money paybacks or grants back to the state for employing these individuals. They also get additional funding for Special Needs teachers and indeed they should. There is a lot of work involved.And these individuals also have large grants to work with and many parents (not all) receive additional funds for dignosed children. We've had discussions on this forum as to what the best approaches are with teaching different children and adults. It takes considerable time and energy and skills to do this. Sometimes 2x or 3x what it would be for another individual. Many m.a. instructors take extra education on their own time. Many can't. Many martial arts schools are the sole source of income for instructors and their families. I think if people (young and old) are being referred to martial arts schools than the clinical providers or family members have a responsibility to tell us. It takes hours and hours and sometimes years for clinical providers to diagnose certain disorders and yet martial arts instructors are expected to work miracles without having a full comprehension of the students background. The student could even not just be hyperactive but could be prone to bouts of anger and hostility released in a physical way toward other students in class. This of course would increase the liability. It also would cause unncessary confusion and bad misunderstandings between the student, parent and other classmates. And what if we can't help the child or the counselor perceives our actions as being detrimental in some way. Then what? Having been referred to martial arts - some (certainly not all) parents might feel that it is the martial arts responsibility to provide a cure and will be the first to criticize if we are not able to come through with quick results. I also think that if they are being referred to us than we should also be awarded some monetary compensation and training so that we can really help these children. Unfortunately our society uses money as a means of professional recognition. I think too frequently the kindness and dedication of the martial arts instructor is exploited. They know most martial arts instructors will go out of their way to help make it work for all students (without exception) even without the necessary tools and education and obviously the vast majority are really doing an excellent job or they wouldn't increase the number of referrals. But this number is increasing and so is the responsibility that goes with it. I just throw this out for thought and certainly defer to expert parents, educators, and instructors on this list for further thought. I know there are no easy answers and probably a zillion other issues that need to be addressed that I don't know about; but I needed to throw this out on the table anyway. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Jamaica Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:50:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Chris, Jamaica, Ken - v6 #163 (fwd) Sent to the wrong address. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: >From jdudley@inna.net Tue Mar 23 11:00:04 1999 Subject: Re: Chris, Jamaica, Ken - v6 #163 To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:51 +0000 Hi, Chris. >concepts" on how to use the techniques in a real combat situation. Not = >to many fights begin with the attacker grabbing the victims wrist. They do if you're a girl. As in "Hey, Baby, you're not going anyhere until I say so." As a female, I'm unlikely to be in a bar brawl, but more likely to be in a bad situation that starts with grabbing. Well, I hope not, because I hope I could spot a bad situation and leave the scene before it turned to grabbing. Hi, Jamaica. >When did you know you wanted to be a martial artist? Was it a calling I started in order to learn some self defense and get into better shape. I got those things and more. My dojang is an extremely positive place, and how many places can you say that about? Also I have so many friends there, I can't imagine leaving them without a REALLY good reason. >From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:03:30 -0600 >Subject: the_dojang: Changing of forms > >considered a 1st Dan. One of the requirements that I was asked to have the >testees do was to either add a move into a form such as in Chon-Ji downblock >kick punch instead of downblock punch, or to have the testees do each >technique 2 time. > >Has anybody else heard of or done this in a testing situation? If so what >did you think about it and why was it done? Hi, Ken. Yes! We have something like that in every test. You do what you're supposed to do, but there is always some surprise, too. Example: last Thursday was color belt Gup testing. I went to see a friend get her yellow belt. So the red and red-with-black-stripe (this is just before Bo Dan) belt students had done their forms. Then our grandmaster said, "Do the form once more, but this time, say out loud the name of each stance as you do it." Well, there was one black stripe guy who kept messing up and saying his HAND technique - "Knife hand guarding block" or whatever. It was painful, but he finally got throught it. Grandmaster Dong did not let him off the hook, but neither did he berate him or belittle him. Of course all of us watching were silently WILLING the guy to say each stance. I think the purpose is to add a little more pressure and see how you react to it, as training for a fight, to make you think fast, to see if you have a positive attitude, and to see if you really know those techniques. Jane Bo Dan, TKD jdudley@inna.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:58:31 PST Subject: the_dojang: Redefining The Male A few digests ago one of the men on this forum asked me if I had any books/materials out there that redefined men. And I said I would check my bookmarks. This was after I posted about a book that redefined women. So that you guys don't feel left out of the picture, I did find a few resources for you also. :) Book: Being a Man A Guide to the New Masculinity (hahah - Did you know there was a new masculinity?) This practical manual demonstrates how followers of the men's movement can transform their philosophy into a way of life by rejecting the male image as being out of touch with feelings, emotionally immature, and psychologically isolated, and replacing it with well-balanced, positive attitudes and abilities. And a very interesting website from Australia (and I say that cause I now there are a few posters from Australia and New Zealand out there. http://www.pnc.com.au/~pvogel/cm/aut96/editor1.htm Enjoy. Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:44:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Chewing, smoking << However not seeing it doesn't mean it isn't there. >> I agree wholeheartedly with Jamaica and am quite glad she said that. There have been several students over the past couple years that have smoked, chewed, or dabbled in illegal substances, but none of this surfaced until WAY after the fact. Even now there's still a couple people who chew or smoke, but haven't tattooed it on their forehead. Definitely something that can ruin your body after years of abuse. Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com "All warfare is based on deception." --Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:59:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #164 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.