From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #165 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 23 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 165 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Destiny the_dojang: Re: Special Needs Kids the_dojang: from the FAQ the_dojang: Chung Do Kwan's Founder the_dojang: Info about Stuff the_dojang: Oops on the Omega Post the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #161 the_dojang: Re: Martial Arts Teaching,Changes,and Respect the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:59:18 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Destiny << When did you know you wanted to be a martial artist? Was it a calling (so to speak). Did you always know or did you stumble into it like me and then it became a passionate part of your life. >> Geez.... I have to remember THAT far back???? :) Well, during my father's second tour of Korea, I was but a little elementary schooler. We lived in a housing area that was off-post but was treated like the big installation, Yongsan. At any rate, I remember checking out books about the martial arts and going to the second floor of the Hannam Village Gym to watch the martial arts classes (your choice between Taekwondo or Hapkido) and just being awed with what everybody was doing. I felt like something was hollering and drawing my attention to it... of course, I wanted to be enrolled in the classes, so I asked my dear mother if I could join... and she told me no, flat out (because at the time I was a hellion). However, I persisted and finally got out of taking Phys Ed my 8th grade year to take Hapkido--which was the best move I ever made. I guess it really boils down to me listening to those strange voices inside.... sometimes they're right. I haven't regretted getting into the martial arts because it has helped me to become a better person. I've been able to reform myself, inside and out. Everybody has God-given talents; some people just dont' use 'em. I'm grateful that I've been given a pair of perfectly functional arms and a pair of able legs... there are less fortunate people who would love to run, kick, punch, block, etc. with us but still find a way to overcome their disability.... Kim Jones addidastkd@aol.com "All warfare is based on deception." --Sun Tzu, "The Art of War ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:42:32 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Special Needs Kids In a message dated 3/23/99 3:56:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > I also think that if they are being referred to us than we should also > be awarded some monetary compensation and training so that we can really > help these children. Unfortunately our society uses money as a means of > professional recognition. > There are very strict guidelines in most states regarding the teaching of special needs children. If I were a teacher/owner, I would have my lawyer double check about liabilities in terms of special needs instruction. What if you don't know that my son has a kidney problem and I don't tell you and he gets hurt? Who is at fault, me for not telling or you for not asking? Remember, logic does not always prevail when it comes to legalities. I know a woman who keeps enrolling her ADHD son in martial arts programs until he is asked to leave because he is out of control or she doesn't pay the bill. I know that she has not informed any schools that her son is "ADHD with a violent streak and repressed anger" (doctor's diagnosis) because she is scared they won't take him. She has been informed by an advocate not to volunteer information about her son so as to avoid "discrimination" against her little tyke. In the meantime, this kid is learning some pretty nasty skills with no philosophy or moral code. He lacks impulse control and has become a bully. He recently jumped a kid from behind for refusing to fight with him. The kid that was jumped was a black belt candidate that knew he could hurt the kid but chose to walk away. The bully did this buoyed on the power trip he received courtesy of my older son who didn't want to hurt him either. Is is a coincidence that both kids who didn't want to hurt him train under the same instructor? I don't think so. While the ADHD child may end up in jail before long...a sad thing to say about a 9 yr old...he could do a lot of damage until that day comes along. Personally, if someone came to me saying that their son left this program and that program for varying reasons, I would be on the phone finding out the real reasons as soon as she left the office. Not all instructors, obviously, are that conciententous when it comes enrollment. That leaves open a whole 'nother lawsuit because if my kid was hurt in the dojang by the bully type and the instructor did not do his/her homework, I would be talking to my lawyer. A friend that owns a school was telling me that he has a five year old that is so angry that the kid's jaw is permanently clenched. His mother signed him up and did not inform my friend that 1. the kid is in therapy 2. the kid is on meds 3. the therapist recommended martial arts as a way for the kid to learn self-control and 4. her ex-husband literally slaps the kid around to "toughen him up" and "take it like a man." She made a nasty comment to him about the program not helping because he still can't go without his meds and not loose it. He said it took everything he had at that point not to invite her to walk out the door and not return. He sees his job, especially with kids, to be able to help them. He is hoping that one day he will be able to reach this kid...if his mother hangs in there. On the other hand, it may be considered discriminatory to ask about special needs status because of the Americans With Disabilities Act. So this is a *very* fine line. Either way, it reminds me why I wouldn't want to be an instructor these days. Teaching 2nd graders was more than enough for me! Tang Soo! karla ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:02:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: from the FAQ Folks, please remember from the FAQ... Q: What type of messages belong on this distribution list (in priority order)? A: For The_Dojang list: - Korean martial arts - Korean martial sports - Korean MA history - Asian martial arts - Martial arts - Seminar/tourny announcements - Korean culture Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:29:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Chung Do Kwan's Founder > I am looking for history on the Chung Do Kwan's founder Lee, Won-kuk. > If anyone knows where I can find this information or has information > to share please let me know. What type of info are you looking for wrt LEE Won-kuk? From some old posts: "Well in the artlicle in TKD Times, Grandmaster Lee himself stated he studied law at Central University law school in Japan. As far as I know that is the translation of Chuo University. Also even though Grandmaster Lee has lived in the united states for 25 years he is not fluent in English, to what degree I wouldn't know, I have never had the honor of speaking with him personally (There is always hope!!!!). So the interview was conducted in rither Japanese or Korean, I would guess in Korean, especailly since the interviewer was Korean. In this artlicle GM Lee stated he studied Karate under Sensei Hunagoshi, the founder of GojuRyu Karate. Being that the interview was not done in english (Or japanese), since there is no "F" sound words with the "F" sound are either replaced with the "P" or "H" sound in this case "F", also in Korean the "G" and "K" sound are pronounced the same, so it is is clear that Hunagoshi is really Funakoshi. Funakoshi is known as the founder of Shotokan Karate, which is the root of most Japanese Karate with the exception of GoJuRyu, whose founders name I don't recall off the top of my head, but it is not Funakoshi or Hunagoshi, I remember that much very easily. Also in this same article, GM Lee states that he has observed and studied Tang Soo Do in Japan, Tang Soo Do is a Korean pronounciation of the Japanese Karate-Do, so in studying Tang Soo Do, he meant Karate-Do. Ironically, the Korean term Kong Soo Do also is pronounced in Japanese as Karate-Do, both Tang Soo Do and Kong Soo Do were the terms used to first describe the arts which later have become known as Tae Kwon Do. Now as far as information I beleive it was already covered in how much this article lacked, but if you look at the information given and analyze the language barrier it becomes somewhat more informative. Besides this article I have spoken with Grandmasters, Master, and there students to gather this information, but am not at liberty to disclose that information for this I apologize, perhaps others on the list can verify this information with further written proof." and "Here's some more information about the Koreans training in Japan before 1945. To my knowledge there were at least eight Koreans who studied karate-do in Japan in that era. At least five of these studied Shotokan karate-do: Won-kuk Lee, Pyong-chik Ro, Hong-hi Choi, Ki-whang Kim, & Yong-i Choi. Won-kuk Lee, Pyong-chik Ro, and Hong-hi Choi all studied Shotokan Karate-do at Japanese universities and returned home to found the Ch'ongdokwan (Chung Do Kwan), Sangmukwan (Song Moo Kwan), and Odokwan (Oh Do Kwan) respectively. Choi of course is also the founder of the International Taekwon-Do Federation." Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:35:23 PST Subject: the_dojang: Info about Stuff Hi - this is just one of the FYI things I came across. The following website is to the homepage of the Omega Institute for Holistic Studies. Since I like to know where prominent people in the world of martial arts invest their time and money and with whom, I got curious when I saw the following names on the 1999 faculty of this organization. Some are: Billy Blanks Steven Seagal Thich Naht Hanh Ram Dass David Carradine If you go to the bottom of the page and click on workshops you can get specific info on their workshops including many others. If this is your kind of activity Omega is hosting a conference for the general public July 2-4, 1999 in Chicago. http://www.omega-inst.org/catalog/main_catalog.html Jamaica jamaica_power@hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:40:46 PST Subject: the_dojang: Oops on the Omega Post Sorry...for a detailed listing hit the "Click Here" button at the top of the page. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:45:20 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #161 > > > From: "James R. Donley" > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:17:10 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: Sparring and Forms > > Hi All, > > I've been reading this list for a few months but this is my first post. > ...snip... > What I'd also like to know is: Have any of you trained under Masters that > changed forms to suit how they believed they should be performed or created > new ones to further the Art or your training? What are your opinions of > this. I'm not looking for flames, I'm looking for constructive criticism > and comments. For me, the training had been very beneficial and I advocate > change though I know I will never get Kuk-Ki-Wan certified. However, at > times I wonder if I am missing something as I'm studying under a renegade. > Sure - the ATA is a classic example. ATA used to teach Gen. Choi's forms. In 1983, Master Lee (now Grand Master) introduced the first three forms of a new style of Taekwondo which he named Songahm (Pine Tree). In 1994, he introduced the final form of the style at the ATA's 25th anniversary celebration at the World Championships. The Songahm forms are copyrighted by the ATA. Each form builds upon the techniques learned in the previous form(s) and introduces new material and/or combinations. They start simple, with 18 moves for the White Belt form up to 81 moves for First Degree Black Belt and even more for higher degrees. Each form is laid out on a pattern called the Songahm Star. All forms begin and end in the center of the star and have a distinct pattern along the lines of the star. All forms stress balance; techniques are performed on both sides of the body. An image of the Songahm Star is visible on the ATA's homepage at www.taekwondousa.com ; it's the third one down on the right, under the PTS logo. > > My final opinion (of the day) is that when it comes to sparring someone of > the opposite sex (or anyone for that matter), just do it. You're not > helping someone by not sparring with them as they don't know who may attack > them and training against a variety of opponents can only help. > > Right on the money. Besides that, if you hold back sparring a female, she's liable to open a can of "Whop-Ass (tm)" and hand it to you! :-) ------------------------------ From: "Mark M. Smith" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:37:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Martial Arts Teaching,Changes,and Respect Jamaica, As always a thought provoking post. Here are some of mine. At 04:00 PM 3/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >While that is no surprise to me it is disturbing that while martial arts >instructors struggle to get and maintain credibility for their teachings >that behind the scenes we are being used as professional providers and >educators to help challenged children and adults. Yet on the surface we >are not given that acknowledgment in a professional manner. Thank you's >are nice but so is some type of monetary compensation. I have a slightly different thought on this one. How many of these professionals do you think have a working knowledge of what martial arts training is about? Have they ever taken a martial art themselves? Have they ever visited a martial arts school? When they give a referral, do they recommend specific schools who they know are reputable? You may gather that these questions are mostly rhetorical on my part. My impression is that most (not all!) of the people make these referrals are doing so based on an article they read in a magazine or newspaper. I question whether this is very professional behavior on their part. Even if they are making a recommendation based on sound evidence (ie scientific studies). The specific martial arts school, the style of the instructor, and the curriculum are going to determine if the studying of a martial art is beneficial to the specific problem of the student being referred. If they are referring without the knowledge of the instructor, then it is not very likely that they have researched these issues. Instead of being sucked into this world of professional providers, I would propose that the martial arts are best served by remaining outside this professional circle. I do believe the martial arts can be helpful for many challenged individuals, but it is because we do not acknowledge or cater to their particular challenges that we have been found successful. >I think if people (young and old) are being referred to martial arts >schools than the clinical providers or family members have a >responsibility to tell us. It takes hours and hours and sometimes years >for clinical providers to diagnose certain disorders and yet martial >arts instructors are expected to work miracles without having a full >comprehension of the students background. The student could even not >just be hyperactive but could be prone to bouts of anger and hostility >released in a physical way toward other students in class. >This of course would increase the liability. It also would cause >unncessary confusion and bad misunderstandings between the student, >parent and other classmates. And what if we can't help the child or the >counselor perceives our actions as being detrimental in some way. >Then what? Part of my enrollment application asks if the student has any medical problems. I am wondering now if I should be more specific and ask about psychological issues as well (I worry that this might be legally or ethically wrong). On the other hand, I have had children who came to my school at the suggestion of school counselors, and the parents have always been very up front about the referral. I have yet to find out about this after the student has been enrolled. I have also dealt with "at risk" children in other non martial arts programs. In one program, part of the application process is to determine if the program can effectively deal this the needs of the child. Children are not accepted both for not being at risk enough and being too risky. The idea being that the program has determined, through experience, those children who will respond to the program and those who need a more focused/intensive program. I believe as an instructor you should evaluate students on this basis. While, I do not advocate turning away a student (except in extreme circumstances), you can be very up front with the parents about the effectiveness of the your curriculum. >Having been referred to martial arts - some (certainly not all) parents >might feel that it is the martial arts responsibility to provide a cure >and will be the first to criticize if we are not able to come through >with quick results. If you have been up front with the parents this is less of an issue. >I also think that if they are being referred to us than we should also >be awarded some monetary compensation and training so that we can really >help these children. Unfortunately our society uses money as a means of >professional recognition. I think that if you want monetary compensation, then you should design a martial arts curriculum targeted at these children specifically. Partner with one of the professionals and market it to the school system. But, do not take extra money to teach your normal martial arts curriculum, just because one of the students is referred by a professional. Do you want extra money when a doctor refers a patient to the martial arts for weight loss and physical fitness? Is not mental fitness just as important a component of your art? Why would you receive money for one and not the other? Remember, there are plenty of other professionals who do receive money for weight loss and physical fitness. >I think too frequently the kindness and dedication of the martial arts >instructor is exploited. They know most martial arts instructors will >go out of their way to help make it work for all students (without >exception) even without the necessary tools and education and obviously >the vast majority are really doing an excellent job or they wouldn't >increase the number of referrals. I do not think we are being exploited. I think it is a sign of respect to get referrals. I do wish that this respect carried over into other aspects of peoples thinking about martial arts. >But this number is increasing and so is the responsibility that goes >with it. Again, if this responsibility is becoming larger, then exploit it. Use it to market your martial arts business. Just please do not "market" by creating ads touting the benefits for challenged kids. Instead develop a curriculum that maximizes the effectiveness of martial arts training to the specific problems of the challenged kids. Get educated if you must or partner with a professional. If you do not want to tackle this head on, then be up front with parents before you accept their children. >I just throw this out for thought and certainly defer to expert parents, >educators, and instructors on this list for further thought. I know >there are no easy answers and probably a zillion other issues that need >to be addressed that I don't know about; but I needed to throw this out >on the table anyway. You threw it out and I hit it back. Thanks for stirring my brain cells. Mark Smith Merrimack, NH ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:12:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #165 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.