From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #169 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 25 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 169 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #167 the_dojang: Searching for Board holder gizmo... the_dojang: hapkido and jointlocks the_dojang: Fist fights/AJ the_dojang: Re: Temper tantrum the_dojang: Re: Brett Erwin on Re: Temper Tantrum the_dojang: email change the_dojang: holiday the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #164 Re: the_dojang: email change the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:51:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #167 In a message dated 3/24/99 6:30:44 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Does anyone else have any experience with this? Would her attacking me with the intent to physically injure me (which her voie told me was the case) be cause for me to respond with a less-than gentle techniqe to end the threat? >> sounds like youre looking for permission from all of us. my humble suggestion would be to consult your instructor. he needs to know that something is going on. he'll probably be able to give you some excellent advice. melinda chunjido@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Tony Preston Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:04:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Searching for Board holder gizmo... I got a coupld of 2 inch and 3 inch plastic finger protectors for board holders. They are simple plastic things that look like: _ ) [_ <-- 2 boards fit here They have no markings on them showing who made them and are hard plastic. They should work good for 2" or 3" breaks protecting the fingers of the holders. I am trying to find out where I can get some more of them.... I don't remember where I got these from... Anyone seen these things and know where I can get more ------------------------------ From: burdickd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:46:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: hapkido and jointlocks Practicing wrist grab defenses to my mind leads directly to performing jointlocks as punch defenses. Doing jointlocks from a wrist grab allows you to practice establishing a connection between you and your partner, which then allows you to learn how to unbalance your partner and from there apply a lock. The next stage is to work the locks off of a strike, guarding the body, redirecting the blow and capturing it, and then applying the strike. After that, I have my students learn the counters to the various locks, and start thinking about strategy in lock flows. THEN you get to the stage where you try to get the lock on someone who is not letting you do it. For my money, strikes are easy to perform and judo-style throws are easy to perform, but jointlocks are very hard. You need to trap or jam the opponent's arm without getting whacked by the other hand. Armbars are the easiest to apply I think. As for knives, I haven't seen many effective knife defenses. A lot of schools practice with the attacker making big movements with the knife (straight thrust, downward psycho attack, or big slashes from left or right). What I used to use as an acid test was to get a rubber knife and tell the person that I was going to do a simple upward cut, just swinging up. Then I would swing the knife up to waist level and then back down again and have the person try to stop it. No-one ever did, whether they were tkd, hkd or kali, without getting jabbed in the arm, the gut, or the leg. When I teach my own students, I advise them to run if they can, to get an impromptu weapon if they can't (stick, chair, anything). We then work off having the person in a corner with no weapon and have them get out safely. I usually teach them to wrap the arm and hold on tight as they enter and immediately throw the person (like grabbing a tiger by the tail, you can't let go once you're there). Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:54:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: Fist fights/AJ << This seems very suprising to me, but I've seen it ONCE before, when I was a white belt EIGHT years ago, I wittnessed two orange belt boys, slightly older than me, get into a fist fight because one of them got frustrated. The instructor leading class first had them do more pushups than I could count, and then preceeded to have ME, a white belt, teach them their next form, boy did that take a while. >> AJ, This gave me a GOOD, wake the neighborhood laugh. Thanks. My question is did they have to wait till you learned what was next and then you showed them the form? so they waited for you to learn yellow, orange and THEN green belt forms before they could learn the green belt form? Talk about creative discipline. I bet they've never forgotten that experience! Dawne ------------------------------ From: Ray Wagner Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:19:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Temper tantrum Scott wrote: > However, maybe the Karate class has a different style of sparring which does not > involve extensive kicking to the head as other styles such as TKD. If one can > use only the techniques and style of sparring that the difficult sparring > partner is using it may go a long way to demonstrating the proper patience and > control. If you can beat her at her own game with her own rules she may not > have a reason to lash out anymore. I don't agree with that approach. It seems like "inbreeding" to me. If they have a particular style and that's all they ever see then that's all they'll ever be able to defend against. (Extreme hypothetical situation coming) What happens if she gets into a big bar fight and Jean Claude Van Damme throws a big ol' roundhouse kick to her head? Is she going to threaten him with a punch to the face just after she picks her head up off the floor? Unless such techniques are forbidden in your sparring, I see no reason not to use the weapons you have. Personally, I think it's a VERY good thing to spar people who don't train like you do. Currently I'm training at a TKD school that's also affiliated with a karate school. I really enjoy going to the karate school for "fight night" and sparring with people who train in kenpo and shurite karate. I get punched in the head more than I like, but I'm learning from it. They do a lot of front kick lead with 3+ followup punches and such. I can generally keep them from really connecting but they're still getting through my defense better than I like. Ergo getting hit in the head is a good thing. Of course this all falls flat if you're training strictly for tournaments. As far as the attitude goes, I can't really help much with that. I'm a fairly big, strong guy and I tend to get appointed as "enforcer". I've been put in charge of keeping people from getting out of control at a couple of schools. I don't get threatened much. My general attitude towards that kind of behavior is "go for it, I'll go as hard as you want". I know it's a macho BS response, but I'm there to learn and/or teach, not change the rules so somebody's ego can be stroked. I've been tagged by blue belts plenty of times. I congratulate them and figure out what they did. Simple as that. Ray "Chuck Norris' evil cousin" Wagner ------------------------------ From: "Forrest S. Clark" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:34:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Brett Erwin on Re: Temper Tantrum Thanks, Brett, for a well thought-out response to the post on "Temper Tantrum." The balance and understanding in your statement have brought me out of my long-lasting lurkerhood to voice my appreciation. And as soon as I get flamed by those whose responses with which I disagree, I'll probably return to that lurking . I have been surprised by the vehement response of others (but I shouldn't have been given my own experience). I'm 51, Brown belt ITF; Red-black, WTF. My reaction times are slower than almost all of the younger people I have to train with. And they can tag me in the head whether I have my hands up or not. Maybe that means I'm not as good as they are. And that's right, I'm not! But I'm doing the best I can. So when we are sparring what is the joy in trying to kill me by repeatedly kicking me in the head if I can't stop them? And they may kill me if they keep kicking me in the head even if they think it is just a light blow. My old brain doesn't like being bounced around that much! But perhaps it's fun for younger martial art students to kick the sh.. out of us older folks. Glad they like it. We don't. Of course, maybe they'd just rather we went away so they can have the dojang to themselves. And that's what I did. My life and physical safety were more important to me than satisfying the testarone-inflated egos of the young men of the dojang by providing them with a safe punching bag. So I gave up something that had become very important to me because I wasn't in it to make TKD a matter of life-and-death everytime I went to sparring. Perhaps the woman being critiqued for her response has more courage than I did by trying to stay in there instead of leaving. Good for her. Was her response appropriate? No, I don't think so. She could have simply said to the one who kept kicking her in the head, "Hey, you've made your point. You can kick me in the head anytime you want to. Now lighten up and try another technique. Maybe you'll learn more from trying something that can be defended against than doing something that obviously I am not stopping." BTW, I do believe this was sparring in training, wasn't it, not a competition at a tournament or a fight-to-the-death challenge? OTOH, TKD is about hand and foot action, isn't it? Maybe she was suggesting that the other guy had better foot action but she thought she could hold her own with her hands. My penny's worth. Now I'll wait for all those who want to tell me that TKD is better off because I left since I obviously wasn't good enough to make it anyway. But I will appreciate all those who recognize that TKD isn't about besting everybody else; it is about being the best you can be as an individual. At least that is what I thought it was. My first dojang taught me that. The second one, in a different city after a move, didn't seem to care about that. Brett, your "best solution" is far better than just kicking her again. After all, he's already proven he can do that, hasn't he? Thanks again. Being able to train with someone like you might bring me back into TKD yet. Hope I can find one. forrest s. clark sun prairie, wi fsclark@inxpress.net >From: jberwin@sc45.rsc.raytheon.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:26:28 -0600 (CST) >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Temper Tantrum > >> I was recently sparring ... After landing about half a dozen >>right leg roundhouses in a four minute period she ... told me that if I kicked her >>in the head one more time she was going to "punch me in the face". > >There are three factors contributing to this problem: >1) The contact itself: >2) Embarrassment: >3) Bad attitude: > >The best solution is simply to make friends with her. ... If your >co-students in the dojo/dojang aren't your friends, then training can be >miserable. > >Best of luck, > >Brett Erwin >Allen, TX >jberwin@raytheon.com > ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: email change how do I change my email to my home one? I am changing jobs soon and want this to go to my home address. The new address is delcinajoy@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Stephan S." Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:39:06 PST Subject: the_dojang: holiday Hello everyone, Just a quick msg to wish you all to have a wonderful easter period. I am going away on holiday for two weeks in Sri Lanka, I would not be able to read my mail. So I will catch up on my return. I have been promoted yesterday to 8th kup and this is my going away present. Bye, Stephan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:27:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #164 >Ken, > >You lost me with your question. I kind of get the gist about you >calling out >a tech., but do you do this as they are doing the form? Or tell >them the >change in the form and then have them perform with the tech. >that you've >changed? Or am I way off point? Or should I go get some more >sleep? .... >... ... >Oh yeah, how would this be the most difficult thing in the test >and what is >its purpose? >Michael Sarles >msarles@ior.com Michael Sarles Actually the form change was called out before they did the form. The Testees then perform the form with the change. As for the changes in the form I think that a black belt needs to be able to adapt to situations. These changes in the form force the BB to adapt the form. Ray Wagner I think that you and I must belong to the same school or something. The things that you described have all been done to me. Thanks Ken Legendre 2nd Dan TKD kwlegen@ilstu.edu ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:29:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: email change > how do I change my email to my home one? I am changing jobs soon and want > this to go to my home address. The new address is delcinajoy@aol.com Just check the FAQ or just unsub and sub back using the directions at the end of every issue of the digest. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:38:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #169 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.