From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #192 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 8 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 192 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: YOGA/Syl the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #191 the_dojang: Re: V6 #189: Yoga/Other sports the_dojang: re: fighting with your back the_dojang: Re: Stragetic SideFighting or Cowardly Evading the_dojang: Defining a Martial Art the_dojang: What is a martial art the_dojang: Just an FYI the_dojang: Quick Update the_dojang: RE:Sports-Vision Exercises and Tests/Jamaica the_dojang: Re: Sports Vision Tests the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:40:24 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: YOGA/Syl snip...On the subject of weight training and all that(which I wanted to do, originally... *sigh* I want to everything sometimes)... does anyone also do yoga along with their martial arts? Would it be wise, or will it just screw me up? >> Syl, I can't see how it could possibly screw you up. [WARNING: I am not an expert in MA or Yoga.] I did however have an experience with yoga last week. After the regular stretching excersises our GM had us *follow along* in a yoga excersize. Needless to say I didn't get it but it was interesting to be exposed to it. I will tell you one thing I know to be fact - IT is HARDER than it looks. This one excersize we did required a focus on good breathing and required some flexibility I obviously don't have yet. I suggest you go for it. For you curious types - the part I couldn't do was put my chest AND forehead on the mat while balancing on my knees and keeping my stomach OFF the mat. If anyone tries it I'd like to hear how it works for you. Dawne ------------------------------ From: Ray Wagner Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:30:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #191 "Jamaica Power" the questioner wrote: > So if you are this person's opponent what are some excellent > strategies to counteract this type of person or get in on them and > make them rotate to your favor. Have you ever been frustrated when > you or your student was unable to counter this approach. We had a woman who would do this at my last school. She was the instructor/owner's wife so she got a bit of leeway from everyone who wanted very much to NOT incur his wrath (probably meat for another discussion). Anyway, she fought turned a bit past side-on and her first defensive strategy was to turn her back. Usually she would throw a token spin kick to mask the "hide", but if you fought her for any length of time you'd notice it. I did 2 things while sparring her that drove her nuts. One was to work on my front leg twist kick (she always seemed to fight left leg forward and I'm a right leg guy so we were always "open"). I don't know if that's what you guys call it, but it's an inverted roundhouse. Anyway, I could get it up pretty quickly and catch her before she could turn. The nature of the kick makes it a good one for getting around her guard. The second technique was to pick up a quick roundhouse chamber and hold it. When I picked it up, she'd turn. Then I'd wait the kick until she got *most* of the way around on her spin and tag her on the leading side of her head. The risk on this one is if she followed through with a spin side/back kick then my groin was an obvious and almost unavoidable target. Remember that Shaolin-do groin block while doing side/roundhouse kicks? :) She really wasn't a bad fighter, she just used this technique as a crutch too much. Oh yeah, she's about 5'9" or 5'10" so that made it tough for most of the women she fought to kick her head as she turned away. Ray Wagner ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #189: Yoga/Other sports Syl wrote: > On the subject of weight training and all that(which I wanted to >do, originally... *sigh* I want to everything sometimes)... does anyone >also do yoga along with their martial arts? Would it be wise, or will it >just screw me up? I've done hatha yoga off and on for a lot longer than I've done ma. IMHO it won't "screw you up", on the contrary, it will probably be beneficial to flexibility, balance, and some aspects of strength over the long haul. However, I also believe it will remain a completely separate activity with its own discreet time demands, and probably won't ever "blend" with your ma training. The time aspect is the main reason I confine my pratice of it to making it part of my morning stretch routine. I'm planning to take another crack at Tai Chi Chuan long form (I've made a couple of abortive efforts in the past). It would seem to have many of the same benefits as yoga, with more congruence and prehaps even crossover to ma. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Arlene Slocum Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:32:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: re: fighting with your back >There is one fighting technique that sometimes can be subtle enough >that the refs (especially inexperienced refs) don't always call it >for what it is. And that's when you turn your side a bit too much >which sometimes is called evading a fight or fighting with your back. >I've seen some really excellent fighters use this technique and they >do not get deducted for it and frequently not even warned for it. I'm glad you asked this question, Jamaica, because I am looking for more strategies to counter it. Here are two techniques I use: 1)Move in close, standing behind their back. The natural instinct of the person is to turn around to see what you might do. As they are turning, punch hard to the midsection. This may not be counted as a point, but it is distracting enough that you can follow quickly with something else (eg - high round to the head) 2) This technique I use against someone who just does bunches of back kicks (kind of like spin sides but they are bent so only their back shows to you). As they kick, instead of just stepping back and blocking, I practiced during a spinning (turning) roundhouse kick. I did my spin behind them so they could not see it coming, then, as they start to raise their head to look around, they see the roundhouse kick heading their way. It is hard for a back kicker to block this kind of kick because they are off balance while trying to straighten up from the back kick. Arlene Slocum 1st Dan Lawrence Tae Kwon Do School Lawrence, Kansas ArleneS@Geoaccess.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Stragetic SideFighting or Cowardly Evading Jamaica, I can think of a couple things depending on the rules: * Side step - if your opponent has their left side facing you, slide to the left and attack. Some of the best fighters I have seen practice this all the time, and are very fast. * Attack straight on anyway. Hit them so hard they stop doing it. * Attack the head. * Use techniques that curve or wrap around the body. For example, hook kicks and twist kicks can work well. - -- Scott Cink scink@who.net >From: "Jamaica Power" >There is one fighting technique that sometimes can be subtle enough >that the refs (especially inexperienced refs) don't always call it >for what it is. And that's when you turn your side a bit too much >which sometimes is called evading a fight or fighting with your back. >I've seen some really excellent fighters use this technique and they >do not get deducted for it and frequently not even warned for it. > > So if you are this person's opponent what are some excellent > strategies to counteract this type of person or get in on them and > make them rotate to your favor. Have you ever been frustrated when > you or your student was unable to counter this approach. ------------------------------ From: "Brian A. Meyer" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:47:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Defining a Martial Art Simply put: A martial art is the art of ending conflict in the fastest possible manner. Nuff, said... the rest are all martial sports, or for other reasons. Brian business@mwt.net ------------------------------ From: Aaron Harmon Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:00:15 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: What is a martial art Jamaica suggested I post this response to her question, "What is a martial art?": Hello, I would think that the real trick is to define "martial art". There are a lot of things that the word _martial_ could be applied to, but it is the _art_ part that is tricky. I think that there are 4 possible different categories of martial activities: Martial sports martial systems martial ways martial arts martial sports are anything that has martial application, but is limited in scope by the rules of the game, such as a limited target area or limited choice of weapons: boxing fencing kickboxing sumo wrestling and anything that starts with "sport" such as sport judo sport Jujutsu sport TKD martial systems are things that are have value only from their combat reliability most self-defense instruction military hand to hand that SCARS system that you see all the adds for in BB magazine (I guess) combat hapkido (from their own description) I do not know whether I would put Escrima here or somewhere else as I have never studied it. martial ways are activities that use a martial framework to teach something else, usually a philosophy. They may be reliable in a fight, but you do not have to be a good fighter to excel in their practice Aikido traditional judo some Jujutsu styles possibly martial arts will often encompass all of these things, but they would also have an emphasis on experimenting with theory. Just like painters and sculptor will often create avant-garde pieces of art to see what works and how people will react, a martial art would often experiment with the theory and possible applications of any martial action or philosophy. (Perhaps the reason why there are acrobatic jumping kicks) These systems often have a large number of techniques and will often have techniques that are not intended to be used in real life, (acrobatic kicks) but are meant to teach a concept that can be used in other situations. The only system that I have experience with (i.e. know for sure) that does this is Danzan-Ryu Jujutsu, where the textbook applications of techniques (kata) are often the most difficult way to do the technique and not the way you would do them "on the street". The kata work really well, but they are not the easiest application. You are expected to develop your own variations which are based on the kata. The result of this long winded discourse is that any martial activity can be considered a martial art, or at least worthy of examination by martial artists, since no person can validate the artistic endeavors of another person. A kickboxer can be examining the fullest implications of what he does just as much as an Aikido student. I know fencers that can argue about what life lessons they have learned from fencing, which is most decidedly a sport. I think that when people say martial art, some mean martial way, some mean martial sport, and some mean martial system. The trick is to decide on a common definition. thanks for listening Aaron Harmon 2nd Gup Thank you, Aaron Harmon amharmon@practiceworks.com - PracticeWorks Technical Support aharmon@2xtreme.net BTW: this is the reason that you always wait on hold forever when you call a help desk! ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:06:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Just an FYI I don't want to reopen the Chi arguement, but I did want to pass on some information since I remember Dave and a couple of others asking about scientific studies. I just got through with one of Dr. Dossey's books (Prayer is Good Medicine) where he claims there were over 138 scientific studies (both blind and double blind) about the effects of prayer/mental energy and the healing process. The one he spoke about that stuck out is one that took place in Reijkivik (spelling?) Iceland involving yeast growth in test tubes. There were other studies in the US based on this one that involved things like seed germination. The one in Iceland stood out for a couple of reasons: 1. the mix of subjects making the petition for yeast growth included students with no experience in prayer and healing, faith healers and medical doctors that included faith healing in their practice. 2. none of the subjects were allowed to be closer than 1 foot of the test tubes they were praying for and 3. all the measuring was done twice: once by a person who knew what the study was but not "part" of it and one by a person who didn't know the whys of the measuring...just that they needed to measure the yeast growth in these tubes for some sort of study. They did find that the "professional" healers had growth beyond the chance factor and the students were in the chance to slightly higher than the chance factor. He also kept mentioning Spindrift Institute as an organization that does a lot of the studies in the US on prayer/mental energy and medicine. Just wanted to pass this on to the folks who asked. Since the book was on tape, I can't just open and look up the references that are probably in the back of the book. (One disadvantage to the tape versions.) karla ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:10:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Quick Update I had asked about training with osteoporosis a couple of months back...here's what's going on: Micah has something called Kohler's disease. It is where the navicular bone in the foot collapses for some reason and is corrected by putting the foot in a walking cast for 4-6 weeks. His orthopedist is not really excited about him training or doing any other contact sports until we're sure that the navicular is back on the right track. Thanks for the suggestions I received. I'm now glad I decided to wait for the orthopedist's OK instead of just going with the pedi and the nephrologist's assurances. Karla ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:34:02 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Sports-Vision Exercises and Tests/Jamaica Jamaica, You've hit on something I have been very hesitant to try on our students: vision exercises! As regular practice in my TSD days, during a cool down period we would perform focusing exercises by holding our raised thumb in front of us with our arm stretched completely out. We would then alternate our focus on our thumb, then onto, say, a distant wall, then back again. Alternatively, focus far away first, then close. The trick is to actually FOCUS on each object. It does tire your eyes quite quickly. It is something that I do fairly regularly and I have to admit that in the three years since my last eye exam, my eye sight has gotten better! Because of these exerciese? I don't know, but they probably don't hurt! In the spirit of TKD... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com I asked for everything so I could enjoy life. Instead, He gave me life so I could enjoy everything. ------------------------------ From: Ron Steele Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 03:11:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sports Vision Tests > >From: "Jamaica Power" >Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:05:05 PDT >Subject: the_dojang: Sports-Vision Exercises and Tests >Some of the tests they are now doing are visual agility, such as >depth perception, binocularity (the ability to use both eyes >together), contrast sensitivity, accomodative amplitude (the ability >to focus quickly on shifting targets), near/far focusing ability, >ocular alignment, light sensitivity, etc. > >And if you're weak in any of these areas they will schedule you a few >times a week to perform exercises. And some of the exercises are >more like training to fly the big birds for the Airforce. I find this fascinating. I'd never heard of it. As a former (poor) collage basketball player, I can see where this kind of thing would be valuable. One of the things I could never do was get a picture of the whole court at one time. To me the most amazing thing watching the pros is their ability to spot the open man for a pass or see defenders comming out of nowhere. You really have to have the big picture to be successful at it. To tie this in to martial arts, I think this relates directly to how you keep an eye on an opponent when sparring. Some people can watch the eyes and still "see" enough of the entire person to pick up subtle telegraphs. I have to keep an eye on the waist area to be able to pick up both feet position and the hands of my opponent. Neat stuff. Ron Steele ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #192 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.