From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #210 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 19 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 210 In this issue: the_dojang: Looking for forms info the_dojang: RE: Testing the_dojang: running and living/training with limitations the_dojang: Do you like all your students? Re: the_dojang: RE: Testing the_dojang: Coach's Perspective, Question? the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #209 the_dojang: FW: Running : Emil the_dojang: Re: running for dan test the_dojang: Ranger Ready the_dojang: Hai Dong Gumdo the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #206 the_dojang: How Much Discipline? the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:33:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Looking for forms info Does anybody know of any resources documenting the forms Sorim-jang-kwon or tae-guk-kwon? Thanks in advance Dennis Master.McHenry@USA.net ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:47:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Testing I just had my Dan-Bo test this last Saturday, and wanted to share one of the lighter sides of it. Part way through the test GM Kim started talking about respect for parents, asking the younger students in the front row if they talked back to their parents. One by one they admitted they sometimes did and along with some of the adults were all doing knuckle push-ups. GM Kim then asked me if I talked back to my mother: Me: No sir! Master Weaver (my instructor): Kerry, is your mother in the audience? Me: Yes sir! Master Weaver (looking at the audience): Kerry's mother, does he talk back to you? Mother (a petite 81-year old, in a loud, resounding voice that put all of us testees to shame): NO SIR!! Me: (whew!!) Kerry kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: Angie Reed Garner Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:34:53 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: running and living/training with limitations >However, I have certain complaints about this whole idea of running, >and >exclusions being to the examiner's discretion. I mentioned different >health >concerns and such, but as everybody can shape their own opinions >about >those concerns, I would like to focus on people who are overweight. A >lot >of people are overweight, and can yet execute and explain their >techniques >very well. But some of them might not be able to complete the run in >time >due to problems with their knees, or a serious lack of stamina or >energy. >So if somebody that is the same age as me, but only has a different >physique would be tested on the same requirements, they might not pass >the >test. I'm sure the examiner would say something like "well, he should >lose >some weight before taking the test." Who cares about running if their >techniques are near perfect? > >More complaints from Emil.... Hi Emil- Your "complaints" seem like very valid concerns to me. (After much consideration, I don't see weight as being any different than any other kind of limitation. I suspect it is much less of a limitation than it is made out to be in the media.) I dealt with this problem by shopping around very carefully when I was looking for a place to train. I interviewed my instructor at length about his attitudes about physical limitations and how my progress in the system would be affected by the limitations I have. I liked the answers I got from this instructor and so that is why I train where I train, in the system in which I train. He indicated he was perfectly willing to train me with my limitations if I was willing to keep an open mind about what might actually be possible for me to do over time with training. He asked me not to foreclose on my own possibilities out of fear. This seemed like a good deal to me. Unfortunately elitism motivates many, and some people cannot comfortably accept people with limitations as valid martial artists. If I have a belt same as someone else does, yet I (unapologetically) can't do some of the things he can do, well, I guess he might feel his achievement has been devalued or at least called into question by my mere belt-wearing existence. My answer has been to steer clear of places where these kinds of attitudes are rampant- my answer is going to be of little help to anyone who has already invested considerably into a particular school and system and has discovered that the thinking is not where it could and I think should be on such matters. I have no relevant experience with activism on these issues in the martial arts context- maybe others do. Angie Reed Garner ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:09:11 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Do you like all your students? Or maybe I could phrase this, do you think you have to like all your students for optimal levels of teaching and achievement? Or for those that are students not instructors, do you have to like your instructor? I personally do not think you do as long as a level of respect and fairness can be elicited from both parties. I think positive connectivity can occur without liking each other. Sometimes people are just not likeable for many reasons and present themselves as difficult clients. Some are dependent and want people to feel sorry for them, some are clingy, some feel they are entitled to everything, some manipulatiive and some self-destructive. I would think that some parties would argue that you have to like each other in order to open up positive channels of communication. And I think others from family type martial arts schools would see this question as inconceivable. And if you do indeed even hate one of your students do you get frustrated or see it as a challenge or both? jamaica_power@hotmail.com Namaste - Krinvanto Vishvam Aryam _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Testing > Mother (a petite 81-year old, in a loud, resounding voice that put all of us > testees to shame): NO SIR!! > Me: (whew!!) Great story... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:45:59 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Coach's Perspective, Question? When you are coaching a student either in your dojang or a tournament what do you feel your role as a coach is when you arrive at a tournament? Do you think you need to be more involved or less involved? Do you think you've done what you should and now it's up to your student to perform? Are you just there for moral support? Do your students agree with your coaching philosophy? jamaica_power@hotmail.com Namaste - Krinvanto Vishvam Aryam _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:06:02 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #209 > > From: "Emil J. Fisk" [snip] > I'm the one that needs to run for my next dan test in October. I, too, > thought it was odd needing to run, and would gladly trade it for sparring > two people at the same time for three 3-minute rounds or anything to do > with sparring. > > I asked my instructor about the requirements, and he said that the > Malaysian TKD Association just wants their blackbelts to be fit. I know > that sprinting rather than long-distance jogging is a better training > device to achieve short burts of energy that is used for sparring, so the > 9-minute run would be beneficial in that way. > > Obviously, the requirements in time vary depending on the examinee's age > and other health concerns. But, this is all to the examiner's discretion. > As I will be only 22 years old in October, I will still have to run [snip] > physique would be tested on the same requirements, they might not pass the > test. I'm sure the examiner would say something like "well, he should lose > some weight before taking the test." Who cares about running if their > techniques are near perfect? > > More complaints from Emil.... Well, I can see the reasoning some...it won't hurt to lose un-needed weight. Extra weight usually isn't a good thing. There is nothing wrong with running - it's great for endurance/wind training. Unfortunately, it reminds me (and I'm not dis'ing your school or your instructors) of the fat, lazy black belt syndrome. You know the kind that get their BB 2nd or 3rd dan and then get lazy, sloppy, poor technique...? Since they want to make sure their black belts are fit, how many of the current black belts OR the INSTRUCTOR for that matter could still perform this feat. Once a BB always a BB, eh? Isn't that called hypocrisy? What happens when you get old and cannot performs these feats anymore...are they going to take your BB away? Anyway, not to keep ragging..., it's your decision. If it is a goal that you want to shoot for??? Then GO FOR IT and good luck. If it is something that you are not happy about or do not feel is fair... quit. Go someplace that you feel more comfortable with. If you have been training hard, another school should be able to recognize your ability and place you within the organiztion. It's your time, money and effort. You don't owe anybody anything. However you work it out, I wish you the best. Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:17:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: FW: Running : Emil > From: "Emil J. Fisk" [snip] > I'm the one that needs to run for my next dan test in October. I, too, > thought it was odd needing to run, and would gladly trade it for sparring > two people at the same time for three 3-minute rounds or anything to do > with sparring. > > I asked my instructor about the requirements, and he said that the > Malaysian TKD Association just wants their blackbelts to be fit. I know > that sprinting rather than long-distance jogging is a better training > device to achieve short burts of energy that is used for > sparring, so the 9-minute run would be beneficial in that way. > > Obviously, the requirements in time vary depending on the examinee's age > and other health concerns. But, this is all to the examiner's > discretion. As I will be only 22 years old in October, I will still have to run > [snip] > physique would be tested on the same requirements, they might > not pass the test. I'm sure the examiner would say something like "well, he > should lose some weight before taking the test." Who cares about running if their > techniques are near perfect? > > More complaints from Emil.... Well, I can see the reasoning some...it won't hurt to lose un-needed weight. Extra weight usually isn't a good thing. There is nothing wrong with running - it's great for endurance/wind training. Unfortunately, it reminds me (and I'm not dis'ing your school or your instructors) of the fat, lazy black belt syndrome. You know the kind that get their BB 2nd or 3rd dan and then get lazy, sloppy, poor technique...? Since they want to make sure their black belts are fit, how many of the current black belts OR the INSTRUCTOR for that matter could still perform this feat. Once a BB always a BB, eh? Isn't that called hypocrisy? What happens when you get old and cannot performs these feats anymore...are they going to take your BB away? Anyway, not to keep ragging..., it's your decision. If it is a goal that you want to shoot for??? Then GO FOR IT and good luck. If it is something that you are not happy about or do not feel is fair... quit. Go someplace that you feel more comfortable with. If you have been training hard, another school should be able to recognize your ability and place you within the organiztion. It's your time, money and effort. You don't owe anybody anything. However you work it out, I wish you the best. Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:26:50 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: running for dan test Emil said: >Obviously, the requirements in time vary depending on the examinee's age >and other health concerns. But, this is all to the examiner's discretion. >As I will be only 22 years old in October, I will still have to run >extremely fast, something I cannot do. I assume that you have a normal, healthy body? If so, you should be able to improve your running speed and endurance quite significantly. You don't have to run extremely fast for a 6-minute mile. >My instructor is, however, starting me on a training regiment this >Wednesday, so I hope that will prepare me for the ordeal. This is great! I highly recommend that you log down your running speed/time each time you run so that you can chart your progress. It is good that your instructor is starting you on a running program - this means that he is committed to helping you reach the goal. >I believe it was Stan who pointed out the number of people >who had to run at high speeds and long distances just by looking at the US >Marine Corp. Besides, there are a lot of people who have 2nd dan and higher >in Malaysia, so if they managed, so can I. That's the spirit! I used to run a little in high school, and here are my 2 cents worth of advise. First of all, learn how to control your breathing when you run. Just as in MA, proper breathing technique can go a long way to sustain high performance. When running, I like to pace my breathing according to my foot steps. When I start to run, that may be like breathing in for 4 steps, and breathing out for 4 steps. When I get tired, or I am sprinting, this might change to 2 steps for breathing in, and 2 steps for breathing out. Give it a try. It sounds simple and intuitive, but not everybody does it. As for how fast to run, I like to push myself a little faster than a "comfortable cruising" speed and try to sustain that for as long as I can. "Comfortable cruising" speed is the pace you can run at for a "long" time. As you become fitter, you should be able to gradually increase your pace and hold on to that speed for longer periods of time. The other method of measuring your progress is to simply run the distance each time, and measure your time, but you have to be fit enough to run the full distance to do this. Of course, this means a lot of running. Since you are not gifted as a natural runner, you'll have to earn it by your sweat. Is it very different from mastering a particuarly different technique in TKD? Remember the "perseverance" and "indominatable spirit" in the TKD tenents. Good luck! We are all with you in spirit. Stan Lim slim@employees.org San Jose, CA ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Ranger Ready Re running... Anyone here a former Ranger (as in US Army)? What is one of the criteria for being Ranger Ready? 4 miles in 28 minutes??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:55:45 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Hai Dong Gumdo I recently became aware of a martial art called Hai Dong Gumdo. A friend was kind enough to refer me to some great resources so that I could read up on it. But I do love and appreciate personal experiences. Does anyone on the digest study this art? Are there a lot of schools in the states or in other countries? Are there different belt levels? Thanks for any and all info. jamaica_power@hotmail.com Namaste - Krinvanto Vishvam Aryam _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Brian McCarthy Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #206 > > From: Rick > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:45:39 -0400 > Subject: the_dojang: Tang Soo Do forms/hyungs > > I have been out of studying Tang Soo Do for a little over two years and > want to start getting into shape and practice prior to returning to > class. Does anyone know where I can find the forms ie: Pyung Ahn, Kee > Cho, Bassai, Naihanchi (sp?). I know that my memory is messing with me, > I start in one form and end in another, Master Yi would kill me. Any > help would be appreciated. > Any shotokan book will have those forms, but the names have been transliterated differently... For example, Heian - Pyung Ahn (Pinan), Tekki = Chulgi = Naihanchi. Bassai is the same. Later, Brian McCarthy ******************************************************************************* "Nothing happens in contradiction to nature. Only in contradiction to what we know of it." --Dana Scully ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:56:37 PDT Subject: the_dojang: How Much Discipline? A short time ago I did a post on "Being in a Zone, or Having an Attitude." While nobody sent on a reply to the digest I did get a few interesting private emails with a couple common themes. One was how much discipline and perhaps power or force should be used on students with an overly aggressive attitude. Those that have a chip on their shoulder, that know better than the instructor, that aren't listening and that believe the hype in the TV shows is where the real answers are rather than with their instructor. I'm not talking about just doing 50 gazillion pushups, either. Some of these students take their attitude not only into the dojang but into sparring sessions. They use more force than necessary and sometimes cause injury to their partners/instructors. They don't pull back, they don't want to improve their techniques. How long do you hang on to these students and try to help them or do you let them go? I guess it's a little like the dilemma school teachers face every day. Certainly they cannot discipline as in the old school days. Any ideas on reaching these 18 year old testosterone filled kids. On knocking them back into balance? They certainly aren't in to learning about the spirit of the art. Thanks jamaica_power@hotmail.com Namaste - Krinvanto Vishvam Aryam _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #210 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.