From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #221 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 26 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 221 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: short classes the_dojang: Sake/Plum WIne/Liquor/Beer the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 the_dojang: Travel Questions-Kim the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 the_dojang: Women in MA poll the_dojang: forms : taegeuk vs palgwe the_dojang: Women in MA questions Re: the_dojang: forms : taegeuk vs palgwe the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #217 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 the_dojang: Class Ratios - Male to Female, etc the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jberwin@sc45.rsc.raytheon.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:39:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: short classes >I agree with the poster here that 40-60 minutes for a class is rather >short. I usually like to spend at least 15 minutes warming up and >stretching, and in an hour class, that's too much time. Sometimes, we >are only given 5 minutes to stretch, and that's just not enough for >me to get the circulation going. I just don't get this. As an instructor, I have *NO* problem wearing adults down after only a few minutes. :) Our adult classes are 45-60 minutes and they get quite a workout! I think the responsibility falls on the instructor to minimize "idle time", while the student's responsibility is to give 100% for the entire class. There is a breif warm-up to the class, but we expect the students to show up early and warm-up on their own off to the side as the previous class is finishing. Then, after they line-up, we can get after it! I understand that a 45 minute class can be quickly wasted IF the student isn't actively involved the entire time. If, for example, the instructor decides he wants to watch the forms of each belt color - but does so only one at a time - DO SOMETHING WITH THE REST OF THE CLASS!!! If I start with white belts and work my way up watch each belt color do their form while the others watch, then that could be over 10-15 minutes of sitting on their butts and only 1-2 minutes of activity while getting their turn. That's not fair to the students. There are many ways to minimize "idle time" in class. While watching one group do forms, the rest of class could be working on the bags/focus pads with an assistant, for example. When sparring, you have to wait a couple of minutes for them to get gear on. But if you spar late in the class, then you can bow-out of class with gear on so you don't waste more time waiting for them to take gear off before moving on to the next exercise. Develop some assistant instructors and utilize them! - - Brett Erwin Allen, TX ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:59:52 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Sake/Plum WIne/Liquor/Beer >>>By the way, is there a Korean equivalent of sake? If there is, I would like to try it. Stan Wojcoski>>>>>> I know of a few liquors and beer and the only wine I can think of right now is Plum Wine. (smile) Of course this is all heresay! I'm sure there are other resident experts on this topic. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 Our classes are 90 minutes long, with the first 30 minutes devoted to warm-ups, push-ups, static stretching, center punch exercise and stretch kicks. The rest of the time is for basic and specific technique instruction and practice. If warm-ups and basics were left to the individual student to do before class and the 40-60 minutes you mention were exclusively spent on technique this might be adequate, but I'm guessing that isn't what you mean. Otherwise IMHO you may be getting gypped (unless you're training 5-6 days a week). >I'm not done! I haven't even broken a sweat! I liked >the class and the excercises, but I just don't think 3 40 minute classes a >week is going to do me much good, or at least isn't worth my 50-$75 a >month. >Any thoughts on this? What are oyur class lengths? Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:30:02 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Travel Questions-Kim question: Do people experience different reactions when an airplane lands on the ground? Any explanations? Kim Jones +++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi Kim, no explanations but shared experiences for sure. There was a time when I really travelled a lot. And in this one month I logged the plane takeoffs and landings I did. There were 32 of them and I swear each landing and takeoff was different. Most of this was due to really bad connections, etc. Lots of pitstops. It was shortly after that month of travel that I stopped travelling like that. It took it's toll on me. It would depend if I was on a puddle jumper or large aircraft and whether it was prop or not. It would depend on the city (hi altitude) or swampland, within the US or international. Heat was a big factor. How long I had to sit in the plane before taking off again. How long I had to wander the airport, how much sleep I had. Allergies... And if I was experiencing an allergy of sorts and had to sit in the back of the plane, the noise and smells really did me in. Dehydration which was accelerated by drinking coffee or liquor on the plane. Nausea on one international flight. So sick they let me sit in the plane during a customs check when everyone else had to get off. For each take off and landing I had a different set of symptoms. Some of them quite severe. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:32:41 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 In a message dated 4/25/99 11:23:23 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:12:25 PDT Subject: the_dojang: The Korean Anthem - Aeguk Ka Does anybody have the words (and music) to the Korean anthem? Thanks. >> I found a collection of National Anthems named " Collections of National ANthems Vol. 1" which has the South Korean anthem on it. Unfortunately though, it is only a Musical, no words. I found this at a large local Music Store, I think if you ask, one near you may have one or be able to order it for you. WriorDragn ------------------------------ From: Angie Reed Garner Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:49:53 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Women in MA poll > Do you feel your training is really preparing you for an unexpected > assault or confrontation that might occur outside the dojang. Absolutely, and my quality of life has increased drastically as a result! See below. > Have your awareness capabilities increased? I have learned a relaxed awareness that is replacing my former exhausting state of hypervigilance. I don't fearfully track people all the time any more- I am much more realistic/aware of who is actually in a position to threaten me, so I don't have to worry about every one I see. I move around in the world with much less strain/stress/fear as a result. I am frequently out alone at night, and it is no longer such a frightening time for me. > Do you think you have within you the ability to attack back (if the > situation deemed necessary) by your assailant? Yep, on autopilot. Wouldn't even have to think about it. That's the best part about this kind of training- it creates a kind of self-protective awareness that simply takes over. If I had to stand there and think about it, I'd never move to protect myself 'til it was all over. My instructor drills to develop this kind of quick response. > >Would you be able to physically assault them if it was you or them, >ie >grabbing out the eyes, ears, and other sensitive areas to render >harm. My instructor has made sure of this, and one of the men I train with happily provides the relevant statistics of exactly how much pressure it takes to crush a testicle or remove an ear! (File that under-did I ~want~ to know that?!) > Have you been taught alternate ways of escape? I have been taught that it is my responsibility to avoid participating in situations of escalating conflict, "No fighting". That means withdrawing once the situation is no longer productive. I am not sure what you meant by your question but this seemed relevant to me. I don't believe in staying in at night, avoiding "risky" areas- these kinds of safety rules restricting the movement and freedom of women curtail my life too much. I am not a second-class citizen; I won't have it. > > Have you been taught safety on the internet? Do you mean vs. stalkers that look for women to stalk on the internet? I guess I don't take that kind of threat seriously. A guy who sits around dinking with his 'puter seems like less a threat than the guy up the street watching the coffeeshop to see when I am going to leave. > Would you be able to attack your opponent if they were another woman, >> >>teenager (female or male). > > In today's society I still see the majority of women putting >themselves at >great risk to help another woman, woman with a child or teenager even >though >it could be a setup to greater problems. I am lucky, I have always had a sixth sense for cons coming from strangers. I used to work with a criminal/addict population (in treatment) and that probably sharpened my instincts. People who are trying to con you come at you with a particular intensity. If you pay more attention to a person's intensity than the words they say, you can tell when something funny is up. It means letting body language and intuitive impressions matter more than words when you are assessing someone. > > More thoughts on your training or past experiences? I wish I could bottle the sensation of throwing a strong punch and offer a drink to every woman I know! > > How do you feel when you spar or throw a large male martial artist? >Are you >confident or deep down inside does it make you feel very >uncomfortable? I feel confident and grateful that I get to train with some large, athletic&cool men. I get instant feedback from them when I am on track with a technique and also encouragement to train harder. I like it when I execute a technique well enough that they instinctively show respect- they get a funny look in their eyes and they smile. :-) I see them as allies and I am very grateful. When I practice with my instructor he will ~often~ have me up the intensity of a technique until he feels it would be effective on him. This is very helpful for me- I have been trained my whole life as a female to touch others gently and I need a lot of pushing to overcome the relevant inhibitions. Joint locks/pressure points are great training vs. these specific kinds of inhibitions. As some others have mentioned, bigger stronger men are less a concern in training and the young men/teenagers more a concern. Teenagers can be frightened of me (because I am older, maybe some gender stuff here) and I try to be sensitive. People are disagreeable and difficult when they are defensive at any age. Teenagers don't get a lot of respect and so I think they naturally may feel defensive much of the time. So we come into the training session mutually afraid, although our concerns are different- I am worried about incurring an injury to my knee or having my back hurt due to a forcefully and carelessly applied technique, and they may be worried that they will not be shown the full consideration and respect they deserve as human beings. > > Do you train with weapons? Yes. > Do you feel your instructors address your situations as a female. Yes, without dwelling on it. Stuff comes up that we all have to learn to be cool about- a calm mature instructor is key here. Angie Reed Garner ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:13:05 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: forms : taegeuk vs palgwe Dakin, I'm not a martial arts historian here, but I always thought that palgwe were the older WTF forms? From what I understand, the original kwans are no longer recognized in Korea, although they are widespread throughout the US. They teach the palgwe forms, the original pinans, and other forms that might have evolved from their instructors. Palgwe was also taught to mainstream WTF students until the mid-1980's (?) when it was decided that they were too complex for students, young ones in particular, to master, and thus the taegeuk forms were created. I wouldn't make the distinction between "old TKD" and "modern Olympic TKD" though, when it comes to learning forms. One school I attended taught the taegeuk forms at the gup level, and then we had to learn palgwe 1-4 at 1st dan, and palgwe 5-8 at 2nd dan, along with the respective black belt poomse (koryo, keumgang...). Another school taught both the taegeuk and the palgwe forms at each belt level. As most of you have probably noticed by now, I don't do much research into what I'm saying, and therefore the lack of details. Please forgive me - I'm lazy. Does anybody remember exactly when and why Kukkiwon and the WTF decided to switch from palgwe to taegeuk poomse? Sincerely, Emil Fisk fiskej@pd.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:18:31 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Women in MA questions >>>>Have you been taught safety on the internet? What exactly do you mean? This is an area where Common Sense will preclude almost all problems. :)>>>>> Sandy ME: (smile) but most of my questions are usually from some type of personal experience and therefore, the common sense issue sometimes lapses. People can push our buttons without us knowing it. Best I can describe this situation is when I was a red belt sparring in a men's black belt division at a local tournament. 3 times, count them 3 times, I walked right into the same kick. I have one word for myself...DUH. :) Sandy: Jamaica, I am pretty sure you didn't mean that that way, judging from your persona on this list, and that wasn't meant to be offensive to you personally in any way. But it is a hot issue to me. And I don't think it is just a gender issue either, although probably more people will stop to help a woman or a child than a man, especially a man alone. That is sad. It needs to be corrected. ME: Wasn't offensive at all. First I really enjoy all posters. Next, not only are the women on this forum strong but strong martial artists who by the recent response to my questions (thanks everybody) have shown just that. I would think that any woman on this forum that is strong enough physically to train as you all do is certainly strongly disciplined mentally and will challenge and questions all posts including mine. When I first posted this particular question, however, I was thinking that we should help, but also be cautious and look around at the immediate environment, others standing lurking about, in cars, etc. If you want so share more on this issue I'd love to hear. Sandy: >Do you feel your instructors address your situations as a female. Personally for some reason this question rubs me the wrong way, and I'm not quite sure why. Me: I'd be interested to in why it rubs you the wrong way. Perhaps if I expand a bit on my thinking. From the women martial artists I talk to they seem to be split into two groups. Those that feel we are all equal and are students and those women that feel that women have special concerns that need to be addressed both mentally and physically, ie why I posted awhile back on male/female instructors. Hope this helps clarify where I was coming from. If not, let me know. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: forms : taegeuk vs palgwe > I'm not a martial arts historian here, but I always thought that palgwe > were the older WTF forms? From what I understand, the original kwans are no > longer recognized in Korea, although they are widespread throughout the US. > They teach the palgwe forms, the original pinans, and other forms that > might have evolved from their instructors. Yes, the palgue forms are about 10 years older than the Taegueks. The kwans were 'unrecognized' a few years back, but some have continued to have strong organizations within the WTF. e.g the MDK and the CDK. You can now get the Kukkiwon officials to talk about the kwans again. A few years ago they wouldn't (too much). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:44:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #217 > From: > Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:42:30 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: ATA Promotional Testing > > Last night I tested for and was promoted to 3rd Degree Black Belt in the > American Taekwondo Association. Talk about quick results, got em as soon as > testing was over. > Congratulations! They made me wait several weeks before I got my results - you got lucky!! - ------------------------------ > > From: > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:32:20 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: summer fun > > Any brave souls out there have a summer sleep over for the kids in the > dojang? What did you do with them to keep them having tons of fun? > We used to do sleepovers in the school but stopped because of liability issues. When we did them, we always had a rousing workout, dodgeball, 4-square, a good m.a. movie and tons of pizza. The Midnight Ninja would sometimes pay a visit after everyone had sacked out. ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:56:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #219 > > > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:12:25 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: The Korean Anthem - Aeguk Ka > > Does anybody have the words (and music) to the Korean anthem? > Thanks. > Try contacting the American Taekwondo Association at 800-USA-ATA1 and see if they can help you. ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:22:27 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Class Ratios - Male to Female, etc >>Do you feel your instructors address your situations as a female? Unusually, we have a large number of women in our dojang, so he hasn't much choice! Darlene ====================================================== If you're in a mixed class what is the class ratio male to female, child to adult, teenagers (male to female)? Wondering if we're seeing a change. Darlene, why do you think attributes to your large female attendance? Is anybody in an all female class? Does your school offer one? Would you rather have mixed classes? As always, thanks a bunch. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #221 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.