From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #223 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 27 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 223 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: gender issues in the dojang the_dojang: Re: bummer the_dojang: Re: short classes the_dojang: women's poll the_dojang: RE: New horizons; bummer indeed! the_dojang: RE: Coed ratio Re: the_dojang: Re: bummer the_dojang: sake and soju the_dojang: ratios the_dojang: Women and MA Questions the_dojang: Women MA's and Questions the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #221 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #222 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:34:09 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: gender issues in the dojang Sandy wrote {in part} << I agree we should all (regardless of gender or age or wahtever) be cautious with strangers. Believe me if I were not I might not be here to tell about it. But sometimes I think that for *some people* sensible caution gives way to living in fear and paranoia. And many of the people I have come in contact with who are big on "women's self-defense" are seeming to be heading that direction. >> Me: Sandy, I enjoyed your post but wanted to make a comment. It is unfortunate but TRUE that the women I know outside of ma circles have a "it won't happen to me attitude". We're talking 85 -90% of my fellow students (all girl college), neighbors and family. For this reason some people may overcompensate in those Ladies Self Defense classes. Their intentions are good. I don't want to live in a state of paranoia, but growing up where I did I have a *better safe than sorry attitude*. Pretty much we have to accept that the dojang is really no different than any other part of our lives - gender issues come up. Its really more important how we handle them. I am completly comfortable with being taught *as a woman* b/c in my dojang it is done well. That doesn't mean that I don't understand your point. I wouldn't want to be taught math or cooking *as a woman* :0) What I do want/need is an awareness on the part of my GM that I am a short female, I lack upper body strength and I do not cross-train for building muscle. I want my GM to think "what can I teach her and have her practice again and again that will work on a 6 ft. 200 lb. lump of muscle?" Because of this I am learning great techniques with elbows, knees and palm strikes. Ground fighting is coming into play with the standard joint locks & holds. In fact, come to think of it our GM has an even better perspective. He focuses on our strengths to develop them and lets us know how an attacker may try to exploit a weakness. IF you weren't a m.a. do you think you would feel differently? If all you attended was a self-defense class how would you want it to be run, the same or modified from what you do now? If your mom, daughter or sister didn't want to take any m.a. classes but wanted a self-defense class once a week how would you want it to go? Here's a thought - maybe I am comfortable being taught as a woman because it is a women's self-defense class. Also, in the *regular* classes we are all taught and treated the same. Maybe that is key to good training for women. Look forward to hearing from you. Dawne ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:08:49 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: bummer Ray Terry painfully told us: >Just back from the X-Ray dept. My shoulder has been bothering me for a >couple years. Finally had -the- test for a rotator cuff tear. Yep, it is >torn. The dye leaked out... > >Had my left rotator cuff repaired a few years back. Not much fun, so I'm >not looking forward to that same procedure on the right shoulder. Owch! When do you go for the procedure and how long will you be out for? How good is the procedure in fixing the tear (or how is your LEFT shoulder doing now?) Will the Dojang Digest be down while you are out? Stan Lim slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: jberwin@sc45.rsc.raytheon.com (John Brett Erwin 972-952-3738 ERWN) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:08:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: short classes >As a student, I have *NO* problem getting worn down after only a >few minutes of non-stop hard kicking and punchine. But some days, >we do forms. Or one-step sparring. Or weapons. On those days, I >might not soak my dobok. If you're not sweating after doing forms/1-steps/weapons for 45 minutes, I doubt you'll start sweating after 90 minutes. Your problem, (which I should really call ability :) is your efficiency. You may be very well "tuned" for forms/1-steps/weapons with a high level of efficiency for maximizing power, speed, etc, but minimizing effort. By that, I mean relaxing the "less-important" muscles per technique, breathing correctly, etc. (I am, of course, making the all-important assumption that you are performing all techniques to you best ability with power, intensity, etc. :) With the weather getting warmer, do have the option to walk to the school. Perhaps you could park a mile away, stick your dobok in a back-pack and make the hike. Of course, you'd have to have a little left for the return trip after class. Also, you could warm-up on your own outside the building while waiting on class - just don't lose track of time, and keep your shoes on. :) Best of luck with your new facility. I hope it works out. - - Brett Erwin Allen, TX jberwin@raytheon.com ------------------------------ From: "Laura Kamienski" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:12:27 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: women's poll >From: "Jamaica Power" >Subject: the_dojang: Questions for Women M.A's >Do you feel your training is really preparing you for an unexpected >assault or confrontation that might occur outside the dojang. Overall... yes, though some parts of my training are certainly more relevant than others. >Have your awareness capabilities increased? Yes! >Do you think you have within you the ability to attack back (if the >situation deemed necessary) by your assailant? > I have acquired the necessary skills to do so, though I couldn't say with 100% certainty that I would have the necessary 'calm', in _any_ situation, to do so. I know that I certainly am much more prepared to attack back than I was four years ago, both physically and emotionally. >Would you be able to physically assault them if it was you or them, >ie grabbing out the eyes, ears, and other sensitive areas to render >harm. > I think my answer here would be the same as my answer to the last question. >Have you been taught alternate ways of escape? > This question seems vague, but I would say yes. >Have you been taught safety on the internet? I don't think the internet is much different than any other types of interaction. Same rules apply. Common sense. I also don't think it is my instructor's job to discuss internet protocol, though I think the same techniques of awareness apply. I also think that this sort of fear (of the internet 'stalker') is the same kind of fear that keeps women prisoner's in their own homes. I will not conduct my life based on this sort of fear, warranted or not. >Would you be able to attack your opponent if they were another woman, >teenager (female or male). Yes. >In today's society I still see the majority of women putting >themselves at great risk to help another woman, woman with a child or >teenager even though it could be a setup to greater problems. > This has not been my experience. Those women who are willing to help anyone will do just that, help anyone. >More thoughts on your training or past experiences? > This would require more available memory than most computers have. :^) >How do you feel when you spar or throw a large male martial artist? >Are you confident or deep down inside does it make you feel very >uncomfortable? We don't practice throws on a regular basis. When I spar with men, I mostly feel frustrated. I think that most women start with a social disadvantage fighting. Men are taught to 'spar' from a very early age. Aggression is seen as normal an healthy. Women are generally discouraged from these activities and ostracized for any aggression. So as a woman, in general, I think I have two disadvantages, this socialization along with my smaller stature. I am working to overcome both of these and have managed to make some great strides. >Do you train with weapons? Not as a part of my normal curriculum, but weapons training is available to me should I be interested in it. I have learned to use firearms though not as part of my martial arts training. > >Do you feel your instructors address your situations as a female. They do now! ;-) Laura lkamiens@ptd.net lkamnski@bucknell.edu http://www.students.bucknell.edu/lkamnski http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:54:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: New horizons; bummer indeed! Passed my Dan-Bo test and received my belt at last night's class. Like everyone has said, it felt very good. Also a little heavy and very roomy. ;) One of my classmates tested and passed with me. I turned to bow and shake hands with him after the belt presentations and he surprised me with a rib-cracking bear hug. So much for my awareness! >:0 Ray, good luck with your shoulder. Hope you're back to full speed soon! Kerry Dan-Bo TKD kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:18:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Coed ratio > If you're in a mixed class what is the class ratio male to female... > I'd say about 1/4 to 1/3 of our class attendance is female. They continually keep us "guys" on our toes, though I don't think any of the men in our class are the type to classify women as the "weaker sex", anyway. FWIW, we have all levels from beginner up to 4th Dan in our classes, but no kids. The rules for the company rec center where we have class don't allow anyone under 16. Kerry Dan-Bo TKD kerry.atchinson@wichita.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: bummer > Owch! When do you go for the procedure and how long will you be > out for? How good is the procedure in fixing the tear (or how > is your LEFT shoulder doing now?) The left was done about 6 or 7 years ago. It had bothered me for several years before I had the surgery. Usually the gating factor is when the shoulder tear becomes painful enough to interrupt your sleep as the surgery is not a simple procedure. They usually do a little shoulder reconstruction while they're in there to reduce the possibility of impingment in the future. With that procedure you're usually in a ton of pain for a week or so, after a month you can move around without folks noticing too much, in a few months you can go back to light training. Shoulder impingment is by far the more common shoulder problem that folks suffer. In that case a tear isn't involved. The left is now fine. I think I tore the right one about 4 years ago. It started bothering me much more a few months ago after a heavy lifting session (well, heavy for me :). > Will the Dojang Digest be down while you are out? Maybe, but not for too long. Also, not sure if/when I'll have surgery. I'll probably know more in a couple weeks... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:09:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: sake and soju Having lived in both countries, Japanese sake and Korean soju are not the same. Yes, they are both alcohol, but soju is a lot stronger, and in my opinion tastes a lot worse. There seem to be many more varieties of sake than soju as well. Pretty much, GREEN monopolizes most of the soju market. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:45:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: ratios In my current school: male: 7 blackbelts, 10 gup belts female: 1 blackbelt, 6 gup belts Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Man is at his best in helping others: at his worst in bettering others. ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:46:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Women and MA Questions ME: Do you feel your training is really preparing you for an unexpected assault or confrontation that might occur outside the dojang? ME: When I posted this question it was because I remembered something quite different happening to me when I first started studying m.a. than what I have read so far so I'll share. I had always grown up strong and streetwise. I think this kept me out of trouble when I was small. But when I started the martial arts a very scary thing happened. I became scared and oh so very afraid. It was odd. What the martial arts did for me was to point out my weaknesses and my vulnerabilities against people and objects. I began second guessing myself and my abilities. Questionning far more than I ever had. Where I didn't have fear I now had fear. And for quite awhile I froze up, withdrew a bit. I seem to be a minority of one on this feeling? Has anybody else ever gone through this phase? jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:49:53 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Women MA's and Questions There have now been 2 or 3 posts where women have stated that they feel more confident in their throws and holds against a larger male opponent than when they spar a larger male opponent. Can anybody that has experienced that tell me why you think that is? Thanks jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:59:17 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #221 In a message dated 4/26/99 3:31:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << >>>By the way, is there a Korean equivalent of sake? If there is, I would like to try it. Stan Wojcoski>>>>>> >> The Korean equivalent of sake is called "chong hwa." Which came first, however, I do not know, but many aspects of "Japanese culture" can be traced to origins in China and Korea. S.E. Silz ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:12:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #222 In a message dated 4/27/99 8:03:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The closest thing to sake in Korea is known as 'sojhu'. >> Actually, SoJou, which is a product of distillation (like vodka or whiskey) is nothing like Sake, which is produced by frementation (like wine or beer). ChungHwa is the Korean beverage you are thinking of. SE Silz ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #223 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.