From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #227 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 29 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 227 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: R-E-S-P-E-C-T the_dojang: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Seminar - Oklahoma City the_dojang: promotion emotion the_dojang: Tom Cameron on Art Bell's radio show the_dojang: Re: Anthems the_dojang: Sweating and new experience to share with group the_dojang: philosophy the_dojang: Re: Your Dark Side. the_dojang: Re: V6 #226: respect vs. deference the_dojang: Re: V6 #226: fractious furbies the_dojang: Fwd: Re:Questions for women M.A.'s the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:31:43 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: R-E-S-P-E-C-T << In discussing respect with a fellow instructor, we reflected on a comment by one student: "I will give you the respect you deserve here, but out on the street we are equal." What is the general feeling on this? How, as students and instructors, do we feel about this mind-set? I certainly couldn't say "Hey John, how are you today" if I ran into a master at, say, the grocery store. To start the discussion: I believe that if the foundations of respect are solid, it should not make a difference whether or not one is in the dojang or outside to be respectful to a fellow student or instructor. I am not saying that bowing to each other on the golf course is required... why not? maybe a *mop the floor bow* isn't needed but a quick bob of the head couldn't hurt. Today I went into an Oriental grocery store that I know is owned by a Korean gentleman. When I walked in he looked at us (me and my 2 yr. old girl) & Katie bowed her head a bit so I figured I should at least follow suit :0) I bet the second time we go in that store he'll remember us! When it was time to leave he gave me my change and bowed a bit to me so I returned the bow with Gamsahamnida and left. ...but the general protocol of calling each other Mr. Smith, allowing your higher rank to, say, tee-off first, etc. should be followed, or discussed and agreed upon. However, remaining too formal, outside the dojang, may prevent friendships from growing to their fullest if the respect is demanded, required, or the lower rank feels compelled to act a certain way. This seems a great intro to a question I've had in my mind lately. Can you be friends with your GM or master? I mean really friends rather than behaving in a friendly way. This, I feel, is a hard question to find a single answer to...I wonder how ranking military officials handle this? I, for one, appreciate signs of respect even more when I am not anticipating them! Any thoughts would be appreciated. In the spirit of TKD... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com >> Good questions! Dawne ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:28:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Seminar - Oklahoma City Brazilian and Pan-American champion Carlos Machado will conduct and intensive two-day Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu seminar in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma on Saturday & Sunday, May 15th & 16th, 1999. Participants from all styles and experience levels are invited to attend! For more information, please contact the seminar host, Rafael Lovato at (405) 942-7740 or, visit the seminar web page at this address.... http://www.machadojj.com/carlos/seminarokc.htm Thank you. John Bennett ------------------------------ From: "J. Dudley" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:32:45 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: promotion emotion Hi, Kerry. Well, since you asked, this was the approx. sequence of thoughts/emotions at the end of my BB test: * Yay! I did it! We all did it! (Group hugs). I think taking and passing the test with so many friends was perhaps the best thing. * Whew, it's over! * Give me FOOD. * Now want nap. * Next few days - no, I didn't want to run down the street telling everyone. Rather, I felt that I had to be radiating Coolness, because I had done such a cool thing. * Oddly enough, then I had a sort of crash. I think this is partly due to the fact that I worked so hard to get there, then it was over, and that was it? I mentioned it to our GM, and he said, "Yes, when you get to the top of the mountain there's no 'there' there. But everything you gained in the climb up, you get to keep. So set your goal to climb the next peak." And we don't get our belts until June, so I'm wearing the Bo Dan belt. The belt awarding should be a real occasion, though - it will be a formal tea ceremony. Jane jdudley@inna.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:31:11 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Tom Cameron on Art Bell's radio show Dear friends and supporters: It has been confirmed that I will be the guest interview on the Art Bell radio show this coming Friday night/Sat. Morning [11pm till 3 am pacific time] . I will be discussing the martial arts, pressure points and the death touch. To find out the station that carries the show locally you can go to the WWW.ARTBELL.COM and it will have the station and the times that the show can be heard locally. Please feel free to call in the numbers are also on the site. Your friend, Master Tom Cameron ------------------------------ From: "Kim Jones" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:31:17 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Anthems Hey, a good thing to do would be to have them sing just the first verse of both anthems! :) I mean, if you're in any Korean martial art you should know the anthem. Besides, it's really pretty (the Korean anthem) and anybody who puts effort into it can do it justice. The words and melodies just roll together so nicely... Kim Jones "All warfare is based on deception." --Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Kim Jones" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:47:47 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Sweating and new experience to share with group I agree with the statements made about sweating while doing forms. No matter what I do to avoid it, I always end up feeling warm and fuzzy by the time I get to Taegeuk 5 or 6, but that's probably because the forms were repeated several (or several hundred) times. Like someone already mentioned (I am so sorry I forgot who! No caffeine, no function... especially at 1545...), I make every movement sharp and powerful, while trying to make the entire form look graceful. I've had better days, but the efforts pay off... however, it especially seems hard when you reach your last form and it seems like your legs are like lead. But I'd rather put 100% in every single form that do 20% in the first two, 10% in the third one, and so forth because that is how you develop baaaaaaaaaaaad habits. Speaking of bad habits, I might end up losing a toe (:p) at this rate if I don't correct the positioning of my feet. I just joined an adults-only class, and it's completely different from the environment I had to deal with back in Georgia. Last night was my first night of class, and while I've had to unlearn some bad habits I formed, I picked up on some good ones--like how to keep your foot positioned so you don't end up peeling its skin off like that of a potato's... anyway, I had to keep pace with the "big dogs" but it's definitely the first time in a long time that I've had a real good workout like that. My legs are still sore as I sit here and type out this message, but it's a good sign: I'm ready for more! :) Despite my lack of activity from the past two weeks, I pretty much kept up with the pace of the class and earned the respect of the class. Which brings me to a point that I read somewhere: The illiterate of today are not the people who cannot read; they are the people who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. I wholly agree with it. Any more $.02? That's mine for today. Kim Jones "All warfare is based on deception." --Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Joan Bostic Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:47:22 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: philosophy "Does your instructor teach you any philosophy? If so, what is the philosophy that is taught? How is it instilled in you as a student?" The only "philosophy" we're taught is that of self-defense. Only use your skills to protect, and make the response appropriate to the attack (and attacker). Never be an aggressor. And scarcely a class goes by when it isn't mentioned. I don't know how necessary that message is for the adult class, but I'm certainly glad the instructor gives the same drill to the kids. Joan Bostic 8th Gup, TSD Two Harbors, MN ------------------------------ From: "Alexander, Stephen (Nexfor)" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:00:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Your Dark Side. Jamaica Wrote: >>Well okay maybe your gray side or faded yellow even but I was wondering what it felt like when you first felt that physical moment of empowerment. When you knew that you could protect yourself and do bodily harm to another if you had to. Was it exhilarating, exciting, scary, a proud moment or maybe just one of those memorable "Wow" moments..when you say to yourself Wow, I can do it., I can really do it.<< Do you mean, "Wow, I could do bodily harm if given the chance to do harm.."? I've been in some tight spots in years gone past and one thing I learned is that your M.A. knowledge is NOT going to give you empowerment if caught off guard. It can be all over before you get a chance to do ANYTHING let alone let the M.A. knowledge work for you. One sucker punch and your OUT. Given an opportunity to react however, it can definitely be a deciding factor on whether you walk away,(read: use enough force to get the heck out of there) or are carted away by a big cube van with flashing lights. I guess I have NEVER felt that "Wow" moment yet. Don't think I ever will. Way to many variables. That's reality.. to me anyway. FWIW Steve Alexander To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill. Sun Tzu / Gichin Funakoshi ....... Take your pick ! ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #226: respect vs. deference >"I will give you >the respect you deserve here, but out on the street we are equal." Mark Lasich wrote: > >What is the general feeling on this? How, as students and instructors, >do we feel about this mind-set? > >To start the discussion: I believe that if the foundations of respect >are solid, it should not make a difference whether or not one is in the >dojang or outside to be respectful to a fellow student or instructor. I >am not saying that bowing to each other on the golf course is required, >but the general protocol of calling each other Mr. Smith, allowing your >higher rank to, say, tee-off first, etc. should be followed, or >discussed and agreed upon. Mark, I would make a distinction between respect and deference. Certainly, your instructor and fellow students deserve more respect in a generic social setting than would a total stranger. Almost as certainly, in our western culture, the authority of your instructor over aspects of your life that are not concerned with your training are limited. Golf is not my game, but I might or might not agree to have tee order follow rank in your example, it would depend on circumstances such as whether the outing was an outgrowth of the dojang setting, whether other persons with whom you have a social relationship were playing, etc. Let's pick a more dramatic example: suppose you were shopping for a new car, and had your sights on a nice, shiny, convertible 2-seater. Your instructor heard that you were about to buy this car, and told you that the model you had selected wasn't appropriate to a person of your station in life, and he would much rather see you in a used station wagon. What would your reaction be, and how much weight would you give to your instructor's preference? Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #226: fractious furbies Well, we tried to tell you that they were undisciplined and needed to be enrolled in a good marital arts program, but noooo, you wouldn't listen... >I knew I should have fed them. They ate my files, my back ups and >now they are starting on my computer so... Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:22:18 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Fwd: Re:Questions for women M.A.'s From: "Delia F. Raymer" To: jamaica_power@hotmail.com Subject: Re:Questions for women M.A.'s Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:53:23 -0400 Jamaica, I tried to send this message to the_dojang but it got bounced back... after trying a couple times I decided to just send it directly to you. If you would like to send it to the list for me that would be fine, and if you just want to add it to your survey that's cool too. Thanks, Delia Raymer Hello all, I have been lurking here since January and finally feel like I can brave putting my 2 cents up for review. (Not that anyone said anything that made me nervous - I just wanted to see how things ran and get familiar with protocol before jumping in...) This a response to the questions for women in MA thread - warning, it got rather lengthy on me... Do you feel your training is really preparing you for an unexpected assault or confrontation that might occur outside the dojang. Definitely. Although I may not know all the techniques designed for every situation (who can really?), I have learned awareness, confidence, and when to respond. Previous to MA training I would freeze up when confronted with an unexpected situation - now I can respond immediately. Also, I have learned that trying to respond and putting forth your best effort in reading and responding to a situation is winning. Whether or not you lose your money is less important than losing your feeling of control of yourself (at least for me one of my biggest challenges was actually acting and overcoming the paralyzing/freeze causing fear of failure). You can probably tell I've never been in an actual crime situation, my experience is limiting to thinking about what I would do... Have your awareness capabilities increased? I believe so, although I definitely need more work. I try to be aware of who's around at all times and think of potential escape routes or attacks against them if needed, to practice awareness. In my experience, awareness is something that must be practiced often to hone. While I was on a 2 year hiatus from MA my awareness abilities (as well as my confidence in actually responding to situations) decreased. Do you think you have within you the ability to attack back (if the situation deemed necessary) by your assailant? Yes. I have spent a lot of time thinking about how much force I would be willing to use to defend myself and have determined that intellectually I am more willing to use force to defend people I love than myself. Would you be able to physically assault them if it was you or them, ie grabbing out the eyes, ears, and other sensitive areas to render harm. Yes. Sensitive areas are the best place to attach someone if you really need them to stop. I do have a thing about eyes though, that would be the "last resort" area to attack for me. I don't like the thought of blinding someone, but I think if it came down to my life or someone else's eyes I would go for it. Have you been taught alternate ways of escape? Martially and "pre-martially". What I mean by maritally is that I do have tools other than eye gouging and ear boxing to use that are useful - e.g. choke outs, joint locks, throws. By pre-martially, I mean things that can be done prior to blows - I have awareness on how to avoid potentially dangerous situations, identification of escape routes, how to make yourself appear to be a poor target, etc. Have you been taught safety on the internet? Some - I could use more. Would you be able to attack your opponent if they were another woman, teenager (female or male). What do you mean by opponent? I have no trouble with free sparring people I perceive as much larger, smaller, or younger than me. If a person is very young (14 and below) or a lot smaller than I feel I need to be aware of myself and the attacks I'm doing, so that I don't hurt them - in a teaching and respectful manner. I hope/expect that others do this for me too. Outside of a class situation, if we are talking crime again - yes, _if_ the situation warrants it. The type of people I would have some trouble attacking would be elderly people particularly someone who reminded me of a grandmother. It's hard for me to imagine a situation where I would be attacked by a grandma, not because they aren't capable, I think its because 1) I respect aged people and 2) no one >60 has acted threatening towards me or broken my trust in the past. In today's society I still see the majority of women putting themselves at great risk to help another woman, woman with a child or teenager even though it could be a setup to greater problems. The self-serving part of me says - that's stupid, protect yourself. The part of me that I wish was stronger says - good, I'm glad people still value the lives of others over their own. Isn't that the greatest love you can show, or the greatest deed, to risk your own life for another's? How do you feel when you spar or throw a large male martial artist? Are you confident or deep down inside does it make you feel very uncomfortable? I have found that how I feel when sparring larger people (male/female makes no difference to me) largely depends on the rule set we are fighting under. For example, when I worked out with a club that used point-style fighting (one club with no protective gear and no to light contact, and the other light to medium contact with hands and feet protected), I was very confident. I could hold my own because speed and accuracy were emphasized. However, when I have sparred under non-point style medium to hard contact (wearing shin guards, forearm pads, hogu, head gear and mouth piece) I am not as confident with very large opponents. I know that their techniques are generally packed with more "punch" because of their weight advantage. I get very worn down by these hard contact techniques. This is actually more of a long term issue though than a single fight, because its fighting with big people 3 times a week that causes the long term damage to my body. However, fighting this way has given me a lot of confidence that I can actually deliver damage if I need to. Throwing larger people makes me feel powerful! I love it! Do you train with weapons? Currently, no. In the past I have trained with bo staff, sai, and knives. When I started I was very interested in weapons because they made me feel more powerful than open hand/foot techniques did. Now I'm in a stage where I want to be better and more confident without weapons (when will I ever have sai on me? :-) ). In a few years maybe I'll train weapons again for variety. Do you feel your instructors address your situations as a female. My instructors have always addressed unique needs and situations for various people. Smaller/larger, flexible/less flexible, quicker/slower, older/younger, special injury situations, and male/female. It was never made an issue any more that these other things - everybody is different, has a different body, and different strengths and weaknesses. I have been very fortunate to have amazing people for instructors. And even the few "bad" ones I had taught very important lessons on the kind of person that I want to be. Delia Raymer 1st Dan, TKD _______________________________________________________________ Delia F. Raymer 13 Natural Resources Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 4882 "Everybody needs places of beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where Nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #227 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.