From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #231 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 30 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 231 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: m.a. study the_dojang: Re: Sweating and Being Mean the_dojang: Respect/Formality the_dojang: Re: you're welcome Sandy the_dojang: Re: Sweat.... the_dojang: The journey never ends the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #230 the_dojang: team Trials the_dojang: Re: Philosophy the_dojang: Re: Teaching Philosophy (CF) the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:23 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: m.a. study Jamaica, << This is Dawne's ambitious project but I have happily agreed to help her distribute the questionnaire. So with that introduction I will stop and I am sure Dawne will have a followup post to this digest explaining it from her perspective. Should be not only very interesting but very informative. Good luck Dawne. >> Thanks! For anyone who is interested in helping here is how you can do it. #1 When the questionnaire is done and evaluated by my former professor (I don't get credit or anything for this) I would like to post it on several web pages. I've visited some spectacular home pages from people on this list. They would be excellent starting places. #2 Also, if you own or run a school and would like to allow paper copies to be distributed to be ANONYMOUSLY filled out by any willing participants please let me know. When (hopefully by June) they are ready I will mail you them. #3 IF as a student, parent or master you have a ques. you would like investigated please let me know. I will be doing a lit. review before I construct the questionnaire to find out what's been done. As with any experiment there can be one hypothesis or several hypotheses. What questions would you like studied in a systematic way? What gut feelings would you like to see evaluated? And lastly, to all the women who answered Jamaica in depth: please consider answering mine. You've already put the thought into it and it will be a scale questionnaire which shouldn't take long at all. The larger the study group the more important the answers are to the general population. I think that woman have been an important part of the martail arts. I also think that we are becomming a more visible m.a. demographic. I KNOW that the m.a. community values our input and is constantly seeking to meet our needs. If the global m.a. community is even a fraction like the people on this list I can be sure that m.a. schools are constantly striving to offer the best of the best to their students. Data like this, I hope, will be helpful as we approach the year 2000. This will keep me busy this summer but I think it can be a wonderful ride so to speak and I look forward to working with as many of you as possible. Dawne No1IDIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:41:51 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sweating and Being Mean Now, my husband will not ever let it known that it hurts his feelings, but why must people be so insensitive? He is not like a human fountain, I just mean he works up a decent sweat...normal for a hardworking MA'st. Does anyone ever run into this? Tang Soo! Allison Duffy =================================================== Oh sure! Mean people are mean people. They look for ways to be ugly. What they should do is look in a mirror first. I call these women the "Don't mess my hair up" women. I think you understand. It does hurt all of us. Bet they were real sweet kids when they were little. Hard to just blow off these hurt feelings too, isn't it? I'd rather sometimes take a hard sparring punch and be done with it. Internal bruises hurt a lot more. Next time they make a comment like that, ask them what that big spot on their nose is and watch them run for the mirror. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:44:46 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Respect/Formality Thanks to all for the good responses to the Respect issue. I agree that respect and formality are different. I wrestle with this outside the dojang a lot. We have a one year old son, and we are beginning to ask the question: what does he call our neighbors? our friends? It seems, in general, that the formality of years gone by is almost gone in the US! We are on first name basis with our neighbors, 20+ years our senior. I don't have a problem with this - we are somewhat on an equal social status, but it does seem odd when their children are our age! We find ourselves saying, "Well, your Father this, or your Mother-in-law that", can't feel right saying Dave and Coleen to *their* children! Now, what do we have our son call our friends? Mr/Mrs is good for our friends parents, but our friends???? Back to respect, Master Silz differentiated between respect and equality. I agree with the comments, but think the saying "I will give you the respect you deserve here, but out on the street we are equal." was focusing on the equality of the show of respect, not on respect vs. equality. The other comments by Master Silz hit the head of the nail from my original post: "I believe that if the foundations of respect are solid, it should not make a difference whether or not one is in the dojang or outside to be respectful to a fellow student or instructor." HOWEVER, I don't want it to be a requirement, but a choice. I am comfortable with whatever I am called (within reason ;-) outside the dojang. So I guess I am pretty much leaving it up to the students to decide - but can I be a completely effective teacher if I can't answer this question? Our Master Instructor (Master Mike Caruso, ATA) suggested that we introduce ourselves by our full name, and let the students learn from the environment and their own interaction with us what they feel comfortable calling us! Again, more fuel, but the fire of knowledge is not easily quenched with me! Thanks to all, let's keep this going. In the spirit of TKD, Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:44:08 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: you're welcome Sandy snip... I think it is imporant though that it is not something you do 2 or 3 times and then forget all about it but think you have some sort of useful skill that makes you overconfident. This is probably, IMO, the most crucial thing to teach. Especially to the woman who doesn't want to keep training in the m.a. {for whatever reason} << I do see your points as well, and thank you for particpating in this discussion. Sandy tokay@netwurx.net >> you're welcome. it's something I think about and talk to the other women in class about. Have a good weekend. Dawne ------------------------------ From: "Alexander, Stephen (Nexfor)" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:50:17 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sweat.... Allison wrote: >>My husband sweats big time, as a couple of other men do too. My pet peave are the classless women who make embarressing comments when they have to work with my husband on self defense. They will say "eeeeww, he's so sweaty, do I have to work with him?" I am not kidding, these are grown women who do this. Now, my husband will not ever let it known that it hurts his feelings, but why must people be so insensitive? He is not like a human fountain, I just mean he works up a decent sweat...normal for a hardworking MA'st. Does anyone ever run into this?<< As a SERIOUS sweater myself, I can sympathize with your husband. I have shoulder length hair as well which make things bad when you are doing spinning kicks, the sweat flies of the end of your hair right into the face of the target holder!! :~\ As for the women making the comments, seems to me that maybe they are more concerned with how they look, and whether they have a wrinkle in their dobok than they are concerned with what they are working on. Not uncommon, (**NOTE** the next sentence is not meant as a "generally women don't work out as hard as guys" comment, this is just what I see in my club.) There are about 25 women in my club and only two or maybe three of them work REALLY hard, and I like to work with them as much as the guys because they are there to TRAIN and not do their nails. (one of them is my wife, hi Rhonda! she's on the list too ;-) ). And they get just as sweaty as the guys. (This is not to say that ALL the guys work hard either) The rest of them NEVER break a sweat, you can tell they just don't work hard enough. Your Husbands feelings should not be hurt at all! I mean, sweating is just a natural thing the body does. Laugh it off, what difference does it really make what someone says about you? To me that just shows who is training hard and who isn't. If your husband has to change partners then maybe he ends up working with someone who is as serious as you two. Sticks and stones... Steve Alexander To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill. Sun Tzu / Gichin Funakoshi ....... Take your pick ! ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:48:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The journey never ends Anita, IMHO, an instructor should feel that he is not doing his job correctly if a student feels let down after receiving a dan promotion. To me that means that the instructor has instilled in the student the idea that the black belt is the end of the road. In our school, we tell our students that 1st dan is like a high school diploma. A big accomplishment, but really just the start of serious education. To drive this home, we begin to teach the curriculum for the next level immediately after the promotion. For example, in my very first class after receiving my 2nd Dan, my master instructor started teaching me pyeong-won. Granted, I have several years to perfect it, but the message was clearly sent, "You're not done learning." If you talk to anyone that has continued to train past 1st Dan, I think they will all tell you that they have improved dramatically since then. I know I have. There is a trap that you can fall into which I believe leads to stagnation and the "black belt dropout syndrome", and that is the emphasis on teaching. You will find that when you have the black belt around your waist, you will more frequently be asked to teach. When you arrive at a class for a workout, you may be drafted to teach instead. While teaching is very important, and you can learn things from it, it is just as important to continue to learn new things. If your school does not have a black belt class, ask your instructor if he could start one. If that's not possible, see if you can find a 2nd or 3rd dan that will tutor you on some basis. I personally train at one branch of our school and teach at another. The one at which I teach does not have a designated black belt class, and the chief instructor there was not agreeable to forming one. To fill that void, I meet informally with the 1st Dans before the Saturday morning full contact fighting class I teach to instruct them on the forms, hoshinsul and other techniques they need to learn for 2nd Dan. Stick with it and you'll be surprised just how good you can become. Good luck on your test. From the sounds of it, you are ready to shine! Kurt Rommel McLean Virginia USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:48:28 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #230 In a message dated 4/30/99 11:05:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ray writes: << I've heard (?) that a heavy even sweat is a sign of a healthy person (at least I'd like to believe that :). >> I have also heard that the more fit you are, the earlier in the workout and heavier you will sweat. Kurt (the early heavy sweater) Rommel McLean, Virginia, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:21:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: team Trials In a message dated 4/28/99 8:09:36 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << US National Team Trials May 7-8 Colorado Spgs, Colorado >> Sorry team trials are May 8-9th. They were moved due to an OTC scheduling glitch - OTC fault, not USTU. I understand the USTU is paying the change fees for those athletes who had already purchased plane tickets before change was announced recently. Anyone going - besides me? ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:28:18 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Philosophy In my first taekwondo school, philosophy was taught through our membership oath, definition of taekwondo, school rules, and the spirit of the taekwondo practitioner. All of which we had to memorize and recite at promotion tests. At the third taekwondo school I attended, it was mostly warm up drills, sparring drills, and sparring. Philosophy played a minor part, and I missed it. I think all the students were missing something very important. I didn't stay there very long. The philosophy that I learned and believe in about taekwondo is what keeps me training and teaching and I'll never give up. CF ========================================================= Regarding your first paragraph, I belonged to a school like that. Problem with it was that it was all words, all talk, but it sure wasn't reflected in the instructors. Looked good on paper but that's about it. And regarding the second paragraph, yep I'm a big advocate of philosopy, strong beliefs, respect, discipline, and history. But I must say if I had to choose between a school that had things in writing but didn't practice them or a school that just honestly didn't teach them I would choose the latter. At least there is no confusion there as to what is being taught. I'll take honesty any day over hypocrisy. jamaica@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "CALLAHAN" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:34:36 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teaching Philosophy (CF) > << > "Does your instructor teach you any philosophy? > If so, what is the philosophy that is taught? > How is it instilled in you as a student?" > >> > At my second taekwondo school, I helped out a lot with the childrens classes, > and that instructor indirectly taught volumes to his students on self > confidence, self esteem, doing your best, and never giving up. Even adults > that went to his school felt better about themselves. > > CF > Do you recall how that instructor went about teaching self confidence, self esteem, doing your best, and never giving up? A few examples would be helpful, if you can remember them. Thanks, Chris Callahan "Violence when there is an alternative, is immoral; Violence when there is no alternative, is survival" ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #231 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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