From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #240 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 4 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 240 In this issue: the_dojang: Belt colors & meanings the_dojang: RE: Colored Belts the_dojang: Re: Teenage rage the_dojang: Pilates the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Colored Belts the_dojang: What are the Odds? the_dojang: nope/Chris the_dojang: Re: Um and Yang the_dojang: Re: Meaning of colored belts the_dojang: Response to J. Hancock/Early Moo Duk Kwan Q's the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Forms - Chris the_dojang: Meaning of belts... the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~730 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Sarles" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:27:49 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Belt colors & meanings > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:28:50 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: Meaning of Colored Belts > > One thing that was absent from my early training was what each > colored belt > meant and actually what the black belt meant. I had to learn this > on my own. > And I find it interesting that nobody ever was asked that question at > testings (colored belt or black belt). > > Do lots of your schools teach this as a requirement and ask it at > testings? > Is it in your school manuals? > > jamaica_power@hotmail.com Our really doesn't ~require~ that each student learn the meanings of belts...but occassionally you will be asked for the meaning of your belt in front of the school testing. So...most people learn them. He just provides new students with information about tenents, belt colors, meanings of the ITF forms etc. - we never got that from our instructor when we started "many moon ago". Michael Sarles msarles@ior.com ------------------------------ From: "Joel Martin McTague" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:06:29 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Colored Belts >One thing that was absent from my early training was what each colored belt >meant and actually what the black belt meant. I had to learn this on my own. > And I find it interesting that nobody ever was asked that question at >testings (colored belt or black belt). >Do lots of your schools teach this as a requirement and ask it at testings? >Is it in your school manuals? Our school has it in the student's manuels and therefore nominally a requirement, as well as the form's meaning. Most of the time our instructor asks it at testing of the lower colored belts, and more often children than adults. The upper level belts are assumed to know better. Joel Martin McTague, J.D., M.B.A. D.B.A. (Finance) Candidate, Nova Southeastern University 1st Dan, WTF; 4th Gup, WTHF http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/library/1769 (My Home Page) http://members.theglobe.com/mctague (CropCircles.Com) ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:49:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teenage rage >>> Bernard: While I have no idea of the background of the two boys involved in the murders (and, let's not forget, suicides) in Littleton, I would warrant that like many of us males in the this century they have been raised in an environment very much dominated by women. Since the industrial revolution child rearing has, more than ever, fallen mainly on women. The majority of primary school teachers are women. That is not to say that women have something to offer, but who teaches boys to be men? <<< That's a perspective that I never would've thought to consider, although it's one that's consistent with what's reported about the inner city (fathers not around, kids raised by mothers, grandmothers, aunts, etc.). I wasn't a violent youth, but reflecting on my own self-destructive tendencies when I was a teen, I realize that I did those stupid things because 1) it was fun at the time; 2) I enjoyed hanging with the friends I had at the time; and 3) My parents turned a blind eye to my activities, and probably didn't discipline me as much as they SHOULD have. This is where I think martial arts plays an important role. Ideally, schools typically emphasize credos like discipline, respect, etc., and instill self-control of one's mind/body via the techniques. The physical training provides the "endorphin high" and and a physical fitness that's important to have, IMHO. All this seems to combine to raise one's self-esteem. Obviously, this cannot replace the same efforts of parents to stay connected with their kids and pass on their (assumed high) moral code, but it sure seems like an effective and, dare I say, vital supplement to a young person's life, in these times of two-income families... We'll see how my kid turns out ;?)... Paul Rogers Round Rock, TX (ATA) ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:53:16 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Pilates Does anybody here have any experience with Pilates? Did it help/hinder? Any impressions? I gather that it is a strength/flexibility set of exercises, sort of like arobics in slow motion. ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:56:36 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Colored Belts The eternal fountain of learning inquired: >One thing that was absent from my early training was what each colored belt >meant and actually what the black belt meant. I had to learn this on my own. >And I find it interesting that nobody ever was asked that question at >testings (colored belt or black belt). > >Do lots of your schools teach this as a requirement and ask it at testings? >Is it in your school manuals? Funny you should ask this. This is one thing that is not in our "manuals". Actually, we don't have bound manuals, more like sheets of paper. Each belt we move up, we get another sheet with more info to learn. For some reason, the instructor chooses to teach the meaning of the colors to us verbally. He's got a cheat sheet that he uses, but he doesn't want to give us that sheet. There is one exception for the colored belts. We are expected to know what a white belt means, and it is on one of the sheets. Sometimes during the color belt testing, we might get tested on the meaning of the other colors, but it is rare since it is not on the "approved sheet". However, black belt candidates get additional sheets, and when I had the chance to take a peek at my senior's sheet, there was a section on the meaning of being a black belt. I think we also need to write an essay on what being a BB means to us personally. Stan ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:09:44 PDT Subject: the_dojang: What are the Odds? Seriously, does anybody know what the odds are for a TKD student from small town USA to make it to the Olympics next time around? Odds in becoming a US contender and then against world competition? jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:53:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: nope/Chris << Also, the Tae Geuk forms are base on this theory of Um and Yang. For example, Tae Geuk IL Jang is represented by the Yang symbolism of Heaven, and Tae Geuk Pal Jang is represented by the Um symbolism of Earth. So, in order to complete oneself after starting your training and learning Tae Geuk IL Jang, you must carry it through to Tae Geuk Pal Jang. This will complete the Um Yang cycle and make a more complete martial artist and person. I hope this helps clear things up a little, although you probably already knew most of this. Chris Callahan >> Nope. Found it interesting and informational. What else ya got? ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:36:03 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Um and Yang Some trivia (someone please correct me if I oversimplify or am mistaken): * The Um/Yang symbol on the Korean flag is called the Tae-Guek * Tai Chi in Cantonese is Tai Gek. Our ATA school doesn't go much into Um/Yang, other than to mention its appearance on the flag. Perhaps higher dan levels go into it more during their training... My Tai Chi instructor use the Tai Chi Tu (the yin/yang symbol) extensively in his lectures and demonstrations. It is very much the foundation of the art, as well as life (he's pretty much a Taoist in philosophy). One interesting point is that he finds that most Americans (relative to East Asians) have a very hard time yielding, i.e., performing more yin activities, during sparring or just interactions with people. He says [we] tend to meet force with force, instead of yielding, finding a better opening, then switching to a more yang-ish attitude. fwiw... Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:36:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meaning of colored belts The ATA is quite detailed on the meaning of each colored belt and the black belt. It even helps nicely rationalize the funky camouflage belt at 6th geup...8?) Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: "Bradley G. Smith" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:40:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Response to J. Hancock/Early Moo Duk Kwan Q's Thanks to all who responded to my post. You are all very generous with your knowledge and I won't forget. Mr. Hancock, your response to me regarding Hong Jong Soo made me think very hard, reminisce and get out some pictures. I traveled to Seoul in 1988 and met (at the Kukkiwon) a Mr. Hong who was an important mentor to my teacher. But I don't think this was the man I'm seeking to learn about now. The gentleman I met was not my teacher's teacher (this is the man I seek to learn about), though it was an honor to meet him and anyone else who was important to my teacher's life. The name you provided me may be the gentleman I am seeking. A goal is to learn about my teacher's teacher. I will ask my teacher some more questions before continuing. I believe the Mr. Hong I met at that time was something like a vice president of the WTF or the Kukkiwon. We (students of my teacher) gave him (Mr. Hong I met) the utmost deference and he was very gracious to us, but it wasn't my teacher's teacher. I'm looking at a photo now that dates from that meeting. The gentleman I met had the build of a middle weight and a receding hairline, but still hair to the sides. At the time of the photo he wore glasses. I was told last year that this gentleman died from a rapid onset of cancer and was honored with the only funeral procession that has occurred at the Kukkiwon. It is too bad. I hope this helps answer your question. Now...I hope you'll answer a couple for me. What is your martial arts background, where do you train/study and where did you get your information from? This helps me to keep track of what is being currently taught by whom and where. I am a lawyer. I have trained with only one teacher in my life. That is Haw Tae Whae. I am 38, 6'9", and live in Nashville, TN. I believe Mr. Haw has been in Nashville since 1969. I have been his student continuously since 1970. Mr. Haw's good friend Kong Shin Young also lives in Nashville, as does a high-ranking gentleman named Mr. Kang who is said to have been a former head instructor of TKD to the Korean Army. I love my parents, but all of these gentlemen are like second fathers to me. You had asked where I was informed that the gentleman I am seeking "invented" the ball foot roundhouse. This was conveyed to me by my teacher, though I may have confused "expert in" for "invented". Best regards, Bradley Smith ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:47:42 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Forms - Chris >>>Also, the Tae Geuk forms are base on this theory of Um and Yang. For >>>example, Tae Geuk IL Jang is represented by the Yang symbolism of Heaven, >>>and Tae Geuk Pal Jang is represented by the Um symbolism of Earth. So, >>>in order to complete oneself after starting your training and learning >>>Tae Geuk IL Jang, you must carry it through to Tae Geuk Pal Jang. This >>>will complete the Um Yang cycle and make a more complete martial artist >>>and person. Chris Callahan<<<<<<<<<<< ================================================= Chris were you taught this in class and tested on it or did you learn this on your own? Thanks. jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "J. Thomas Howard" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:46:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Meaning of belts... Jamaica Power wrote: >One thing that was absent from my early training was what each colored >belt meant and actually what the black belt meant. I had to learn this on >my own. And I find it interesting that nobody ever was asked that >question at testings (colored belt or black belt). > >Do lots of your schools teach this as a requirement and ask it at >testings? Is it in your school manuals? Well, no. Probably because for us, the belt ranks have no specific meaning per rank. I personally always find it interesting when belt ranks (and colors) each have seperate meaning and such, but I must admit I always find it a little amusing considering that in many (not all, but many) styles like this, each belt isn't necessarily worn for that long. Not much time to internalize the particular concept for that rank. :) I guess what I am saying is that many times when the colored ranks have meanings associated with the color, that meaning is some grand philosophical one----and the belt gets worn for three months or so. Not much time to internalize a philosophical concept before moving on. :) For us, the belt ranks simply mean a certain time in the art, and a certain minimum limit on knowledge, phyisical ability, and self-control and discipline. Other than that, our philosophy stays out of our belts. :) I _really_ do not mean this as derogatory to styles that do have meanings for their belts. I tend to snicker at ritual and such for many things, even when that ritual serves a good purpose. (Part of my warped personality). It just always seems a little strange to have such a new concept (that of colored belt ranks) imbued with heavy philosophical "meanings and traditions" ---in many cases, the students being taught think those belt meanings go back hundreds of years! Thomas - -------------------------------- thomcat@radiks.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat "If you had another brain cell, you'd be halfway to a synapse." ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #240 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.