From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #242 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 5 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 242 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: V6 #237: chat the_dojang: Re: V6 #236: yin yan Re: the_dojang: Re: V6 #237: chat the_dojang: Re: Sparring Philosophy the_dojang: Re: breaking the rules the_dojang: Re: V6 #239: Di meanings the_dojang: Re: MA Humor the_dojang: Martial arts for children the_dojang: Belt Colors the_dojang: Tournament Terms (Round Robin, etc.) Re: the_dojang: Belt Colors the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~730 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #237: chat I certainly don't see anything wrong with m.a. chatrooms as a concept, but I also don't have any plans to participate in chat (m.a. or any other variety). I find myself constantly editing sections of text for content, clarity, and tone in on-line forums (free pot-shot opportunity there folks;>), especially such as this one since respect is so much a part of m.a. I can't see that I would add anything of value by regurgitating my initial response to an issue into a chatroom. >So I'm just wondering how others feel about chatrooms. I know there are a >few martial art chatrooms already in progress, quite a few actually >including one by Master John Hancock a frequent and respected poster on >this >digest. I'm sure it is an incredible amount of work to make these happen. >I've also seen some chatrooms close. Actually, I haven't seen a post by Master Hancock here in several weeks. Don't know if Ray put him in "time-out", or it got a little too PC for him here, or if he took a hiatus for some other reason. Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #236: yin yan >Do you teach this to the people in your class and ask about it at testing? > Yes, as an interpretation of the symbol on the Korean flag: "opposites come together to create unity" >I understand the correct spelling is yin yang not ying yang. Well, I've seen it as "yin yan", as well. I believe you are correct, though, that "ying yang" is improper (isn't that the term for instructors who run belt mills;?) Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: V6 #237: chat > Actually, I haven't seen a post by Master Hancock here in several weeks. > Don't know if Ray put him in "time-out", Nope. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 07:42:38 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring Philosophy >>>Like I said, I wasnt there, but I dont think she broke down before the >>>match ended, she is a very focused person, and I could never see her >>>emotions taking control of her conscience. AJ>>>>>>> ==================================================== Good discussion AJ but one extra thought to ponder on emotions and breaking down after a match. From my past experience the breaking down after a match results from the emotions being really tapped into during a match. It isn't something that just happens at the end of the match, rather it's a cumulative process. Meaning, she arrived at that state because during the match she was already operating on her emotions and losing focus. Her opponent was already pushing her buttons, even though to some it may not have appeared that way. Sometimes we see things as we want them to be not as they really are. She may very well be focused 99% of the time but this could have been a challenging match for her (in many ways) and an very unexpected one. No matter what circumstances surrounded the match the fact is she had a hard time dealing with it and needs to refine some skills. jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: breaking the rules AJ, Are we talking about bending the rules or breaking the rules? I like to think that I try to neither bend nor break the rules of the tournament. Sometimes I have bent the rules, however looking back I think that I was wrong for doing so. I don't see why one would need to; "break only the rules that had already been broken by the opponent". Maybe this is where we disagree. >I may have to disagree with you here. I know people >(including > myself) who have beat someone following the rules when > our opponent did not. > > exactly, I was not referring to breaking the rules completely, just the > ones that had already been broken by the opponent. I believe a complaint > was lodged, I think... Part of the game, I couldnt have put it better > myself, are you sure you didnt agree with me and not notice it? > > Well, at least you guys RESPONDED this time, eventhough you all disagreed - -- Scott Cink scink@who.net ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #239: Di meanings >One thing that was absent from my early training was what each colored belt > >meant and actually what the black belt meant. I had to learn this on my >own. > And I find it interesting that nobody ever was asked that question at >testings (colored belt or black belt). > >Do lots of your schools teach this as a requirement and ask it at testings? > >Is it in your school manuals? Yes and yes, although I haven't a clue to whether the meanings we attribute to the color of the di coincide with anything anyone else is taught;>) We analogize the color to a season of year/phase of growth roughly as follows: White - ungerminated seed under snow Orange - Spring - sprouting and new growth Green - Summer - vigorous growth in full swing Red - Autumn - a more quiescent period consolidating the gains of the growing season in preparation for winter Black - Winter - a dormant period to prepare for renewal, reflected in calmness, sincerity, and dignity Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: Danny Abramovitch Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:23:13 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: MA Humor I've been compiling the links that folks have sent at my links site: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Danny_Abramovitch/ma_sites.html#Humor Also, I have a list of martial arts song parodies at http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Danny_Abramovitch/martial_su.html in Adobe Acrobat (PDF) form. Those are all my original creations. Also, I'll try to post the original version of the "Top 10 Reasons for Practicing Martial Arts". I originated that years ago (probably 1994) and got it into rec.humor.funny, from which it seems to have been copied and sent around the net. By the way, the free nose job one actually happened to me. :^) Ya'll never saw my "Top 10 Signs Your Jujitsu Instructor Has Gone Nuts". :-) - -- Danny ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:43:47 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Martial arts for children This is just a nice little article about martial arts for children that I came across. It's just nice to see more and more of these types of articles on the internet. FYI http://www.family.disney.go.com/Features/family_1997_01/frpt/frpt199701_martial/frpt199701_martial.html jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Bradley G. Smith" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:50:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Colors I was told the general story regarding belt colors is that originally a student's sweat simply stained his belt. The visual tell-tale of a darker belt was that that individual had spent more time practicing. Instruction in all the martial arts may have undergone a change to follow the westernization of most cultures and the general acceptance of the Socratic method (logic, discourse) as the basis of teaching rather than obedience to senior rank from principle. Now-forgotten teachers may have formerly taught by rote and not answered questions until a student reached the dan. Liken it to some posts I've seen on this bb regarding sport vs. art. Compare the meaning of "goal" to the meaning of "way"? I invite discourse about this: just take my post as a devil's advocate type statement, no insult or malice intended! I was told long ago that colored belts were a systemization of rewards to the student to keep their interest active over the long haul, which introduction of colored belts is either consonant and consistent with the development I just mentioned or even caused by it. I was told more colored belts were added over time to keep students' interest. Best regards, Bradley Smith ------------------------------ From: Gregg London Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:20:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Tournament Terms (Round Robin, etc.) Good Morning Group, Per Jamaica's request: Would anybody...be willing to define some of the terms...in competition like round robin, wild card, bye, drawing lots, etc. Round Robin - a method of determining the best competitor by means of competing with everyone, as opposed to single elimination (lose and you are out, win and you go on). Assume 6 players in a Round Robin - player 1 fights players 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Player 2 fights players 3, 4, 5, and 6. Player 3 fights players 4, 5, and 6, and so on. Notice that player 2 does not fight player 1 again, having done so in the first "round". At the end of the fights, the player with the best record is usually determined to be the winner. In the upcoming U.S. National Team Trials this method will be used to determine the U.S. National Team member, with one exception - the top two finishers will fight a best 2 out of 3 match. Keep in mind that, during the course of the "elimination", they (to two finishers) have already fought once, so that if player 3 (best record) had already beaten player 5 (second best), player 3 would have to beat player 5 once more to be declared Team Member. Player 5 would have to beat player 3 twice to claim the crown. A Wild Card competitor is one who has been given the chance to enter a Round Robin competition, based on past record. In the U.S., the top four finishers at Nationals are given automatic invitations to Team Trials. Two added "wild cards" are selected. They are usually given to: last year's U.S. Team Member, last year's U.S. National Champion, etc. In theory, the Wild Card is a way to acknowledge the ongoing efforts of those competitors who maybe had a "bad day" at the U.S. Nationals, or were competing at the time. A Bye is given to a competitor when an uneven number of players is set to compete. Obviously four competitors would be easy to "bracket". Player 1 fights player 2 and player 3 fights player 4 in Round One. The winners would fight each other for the final. But if you had five competitors, it would not work, so you give some players an advance or "bye" to the next round. In the example of 5 players, the bracket would look like this: 1 - 1 2 - 3 3 - 4 4 - 4 5 1 would fight 2 in the first round - then that winner (eg. 1) would fight 3 in the second round - 4 would fight 5 in the second round also. In the example above 3 beat 1 and 4 beat 5, allowing 4 and 5 to fight in the final. The exact number of "byes" is determined by the number of competitors. Another term, Seeding, allows for the better players to be placed at opposite ends of the bracket, so the only way they could fight is in the later rounds. Most automated systems can accomodate several "seeds". Drawing Lots is just that, drawing items to determine the fighting order. The process is similar to "flipping a coin", but lots (eg. different size sticks) allow for multiple selections. There are additional terms / definitions used in WTF type competitions. I trust the above helps. Respectfully, Gregg London - -- Gregg London Consulting Internet/Notes Development http://www.glondon.com Corporate/Trade Show Magic 703-242-7548 Tournament Automation Services ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Belt Colors > I was told the general story regarding belt colors is that originally a > student's sweat simply stained his belt. The visual tell-tale of a darker > belt was that that individual had spent more time practicing. Instruction > in all the martial arts may have undergone a change to follow the > westernization of most cultures and the general acceptance of the Socratic > method (logic, discourse) as the basis of teaching rather than obedience to > senior rank from principle. Now-forgotten teachers may have formerly taught > by rote and not answered questions until a student reached the dan. Liken > it to some posts I've seen on this bb regarding sport vs. art. Compare the > meaning of "goal" to the meaning of "way"? I invite discourse about this: The belt getting dirty is urban (?) legend... Dr. J.Kano started the belt system grading system. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #242 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.